Thread: Israel will never withdraw from Golan Heights - Netanyahu

Originally Posted by PeeCoffee

Funny that "pratt" Saleh ah-Nouri, one of the founders of Hamas' military wing stated at a conference 21 August 2014 in Turkey that members of Hamas' armed wing Qassam Brigades had kidnapped and killed the three teenagers.

Yes, but what he did not say was that HAMAS, which is who you are trying to blame, had prewarning of it, were involved in it, funded it, or anything like that. So the headline "HAMAS admits" is completely false.

Also, he is removed from Palestine and Hamas. Sitting in Turkey and has/had very little to do with Hamas at all

Originally Posted by PeeCoffee

His claim was not supported by Hamas political leaders. Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal said that Hamas members may have been behind the killings but that they were not acting on the direct orders of Hamas' political leadership.

Exactly. So HAMAS did not do it. You are seemingly confused by the israeli and US lie that Hamas is a terrorist organistation. It is not. Hamas is no different to Sinn Fein. SF would no more take responsibility for the planning and execution of the kidnapping and murder of three british lads that had been carried out by some fringe members of an outpost republican resistance group. The same is true here.

Now you can play your stupid little games if you like, but it is nonsense, and yes, yet again, you are wrong. The tell tale sign of posting anything that is factually incorrect is if piwanoi agrees with you. If he does, you are wrong. That is a very simple but accurate guide for you to use in future to check the veracity of you "play the man, not the ball" tactics.

Remember the Golan Heights?



During the 1973 Arab-Israeli War, Syrian forces had surprised Israel and were fast approaching the edge of the steep Golan Heights, captured by Israel during the 1967 war. It seemed as if Syrian armor and infantry would retake Golan, then pour down into Israeli Galilee.

Soviet recon satellites observed Israel moving its nuclear-armed, 500km-range Jericho missiles out of protective caves and onto their launch pads. At the same time, Israel was seen loading nuclear bombs on their US-supplied F-4 fighter-bombers at Tel Nof airbase.

Believing Israel was about to use nuclear weapons against Syria and Egypt, Moscow put huge pressure on both to rein in their advancing forces. Damascus, already in range of Israeli artillery on Golan, ordered its armored forces on Golan to halt, allowing Israel to mount powerful counter-attacks and retake the strategic heights.

In 1981, Israel formally annexed the 580 sq. mile portion of Golan that it occupied. This illegal annexation was condemned by the United Nations, the United States and Europe’ powers. But Israel held on to Golan and implanted 50,000 there in some 41 subsidized settlements.

The world has pretty much forgotten how close it came to nuclear war in 1973 over Golan. The heights became a primary nuclear trigger point along with Kashmir, Germany’s Fulda Gap, and the DMZ, Korea’s inner border.

Golan recently resurfaced in the news when Israel’s rightwing prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, told Russia’s president, Vladimir Putin, that his nation would never return Golan to Syria. In a speech soon after, Netanyahu vowed Israel would hold on to Golan for “all eternity.” He also admitted for the first time that Israel had made “dozens” of cross-border attacks on Syria.

The long basalt plateau is indeed a valuable prize. It extends from snow-capped, 9,200 ft. (2,814 meter Mt. Hermon in the north to the Sea of Galilee and Yarmouk River in the south. Golan supplies 15% of Israel’s scarce water and may contain gas or petroleum deposits.

Israeli artillery on Golan can hit Syria’s capitol Damascus; Israeli electronic sensors blanket Damascus and cover all Syrian military movement below. Having walked much of the Golan on both Syrian and Israeli-held sides, I can attest to its remarkable military importance and thick defenses.

After the 1967 war, Israel ethnically cleansed Golan, leveling the capital, Kuneitra, with bulldozers and expelled almost all Golan’s 130,000 Druze and Arab inhabitants. Jewish settlers were brought in to replace them. The US shielded Israel from UN action and world-wide protests.

Before 2011, Israel hinted that it would return Golan to Syria as part of a comprehensive peace agreement – provided Damascus ceased supporting Palestinian claims to their lost lands. But once the Syrian civil war conveniently began, there was no more talk of Golan.

In fact, it’s pretty much clear that Israel has been quietly fueling the Syrian conflict by discreet arms and logistics support to so-called “moderate” Syrian rebels and lobbying for the war in Washington and with the US media. Netanyahu has even said – with a straight face – that Israel cannot return Golan or even negotiate, until calm returns to Syria and Iraq.

Netanyahu is clearly following the grand strategy of the founder of his rightwing Likud Party, Zeev Jabotinsky, a militant Russian Zionist. Jabotinsky asserted that the Arab states were an artificial, fragile mosaic of inimical Arab tribes.

Hit them hard enough, claimed Jabotinsky, and they will shatter into small pieces, leaving Israel master of the Levant (central Arab world). The destruction of Iraq and Syria have confirmed Jabotinsky’s theory.

Accordingly, Israel is delighted to see Syria, a primary foe, lying in ruins as a result of a US, British, French, Turkish and Saudi-instigated civil war. Damascus is in no shape to demand the return of Golan, and the rest of the world does not care.

The destruction of Syria as a unitary state offers the expansionist Likud government many opportunities to extend influence into Syria – as was the case in Lebanon during its bloody 1975-1990 civil war. Or even carve off more Syrian territory “to protect Israel’s security.”

The words of Israel’s founding father, David Ben-Gurion, still resonate: the state of Israel is a work in progress and its borders should not be fixed or even defined. Notably the borders with Syria and Jordan.

The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Remember the Golan Heights?

Jerusalem Post Editorial: Sykes-Picot’s demise By JPOST EDITORIAL
05/15/2016
Sykes-Picot is not to blame for the disintegration of Syria, Iraq, Libya and Yemen, rather it is the autocratic nature of these countries’ political leaderships. One hundred years ago today Great Britain and France split between themselves spheres of influences in a disintegrating Ottoman Empire. The secret arrangement was called the Sykes-Picot Agreement.

Roughly speaking, it created the boundaries of the Levant as we know it.

But history seems to have taken its revenge on British diplomat Mark Sykes and his French counterpart, François Georges-Picot, who hammered out the agreement that bears their names.

Syria is gradually splintering into multiple entities. Iraq is fracturing along sectarian lines of its own. Shi’ite areas in southern Iraq close to the border with Kuwait are increasingly pressing for autonomy, with support from Iran. And Sunni tribes in Iraq have joined forces against the Assad regime, creating yet another distinct sectarian group in Iraq. Libya is no longer a single national entity and Yemen is being torn apart between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Even countries not created by Sykes-Picot such as Egypt are undergoing turmoil and instability.

It is no wonder that commentators, journalists and analysts of the Middle East – including the The Jerusalem Post’s editorial board – have for some time now declared the demise of Sykes-Picot.

Yet, among all the upheaval and bloodshed that we have witnessed in the region that has led to the breakdown of Sykes-Picot, there remains one oasis of stability: the State of Israel. And this is not a coincidence.

Part of the reason has to do with the national character of Israel. Unlike artificial national constructions such as Syria and Iraq that contain diverse populations, Israel was created for a specific people with a shared history, culture and religion. With all its internal conflicts – between religious and secular, Ashkenazi and Sephardi – there is nevertheless a common denominator that brings together the vast majority of Israelis.

But Israel’s relatively homogeneous population is only part of the explanation for its success. Much more significant is the fact that Israel remains the only democracy in the Middle East. The disintegration of the old order in the region is more about the failure of corrupt, inept and violent autocratic regimes than about contrived borders that ignored ethnic, sectarian and cultural differences.

Sykes-Picot is not to blame for the disintegration of Syria, Iraq, Libya and Yemen, rather it is the autocratic nature of these countries’ political leaderships.

The Syrian conflict began as an uprising by all Syrians – men and women, young and old, Sunni, Shi’ite, Kurdish and even Alawite – against an unfair, corrupt autocrat out of touch with or callous to his people’s aspirations. And this was true for Libyans, Egyptians, Tunisians, Yemenis, and Bahrainis as well in 2010 and 2011.

In the midst of this upheaval, Israel stands out as a beacon of stability, freedom and economic prosperity. An advanced military based on a people’s army that is committed to the highest level of ethical conduct is successful at incorporating a broad spectrum of diverse populations – including Beduin, Druse and Christians.

While Israel is a Jewish state with Jewish symbols and legislation that gives priority to Jews in areas such as immigration, the country’s democracy also protects the basic human rights of a large non-Jewish minority. All citizens enjoy equality before the law, freedom of speech, the right to vote and other basic democratic rights.

Israel’s dynamic economy offers all citizens economic opportunities on par with other advanced economies.

This is not to say that tensions do not exist with Israeli society. These tensions are, however, manageable within the framework of democratic give and take and do not threaten to tear apart the fabric of society.

In the near future as part of an end to the civil war tearing apart Syria, talk will turn to carving up territories that were once under the control of the Assad regime. A coastal region will most likely be delivered to those loyal to the Alawite Bashar Assad regime; another yet-to-be-determined swath of territory will fall under the control of Sunni opposition forces; and a Kurdish enclave with ties to north Iraq and Kurds in Turkey will probably be carved out as well.

Within the framework of such an arrangement, it is time that the world recognize Israel’s 1981 de facto annexation of the Golan Heights. A century after Sykes-Picot, no other country in the region has provided more proof of its stability.

Now is the time to recognize it.

Jerusalem Post Editorial: Sykes-Picot?s demise - Opinion - Jerusalem Post

Ahhhhh a marvellous rewriting of history there herman. Almost every detail tweaked or wholesale changed to detract from the actual truth that it was a war of aggression started by israel for a land grab.

Why not just simply start pasting up joan peters quotes and be done with it. If you are going to lie you might as well go to source and get the lies direct rather than the recycled versions you puked up

Israel stands no hope of legitimising it's illegal occupation of Golan, or Itself for that matter, until it sorts out the situation with the illegal and brutal occupation of Palestine. One State, or Two??

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

warning that Israel has been taken over by "dangerous and extreme elements".

well that is debatable with butcher bibi at the helm - it could hardly be worse with that cu nt in charge. The fact that he is openly upping the ante with Avi Lieberman is just appalling. Yalon is a fricking psycho anyway, but Avi? He's like a nastier version of Dr Mengele Himmler and Göring rolled into one, with elements of ent piwi and herman in there to really up the nastiness.

Originally Posted by sabang

One State, or Two??

Although I would love to see 1 state, I just don't think it can happen now. The decent israelis are far out numbered by the psycho ones now, so the best we can hope for is initially a 2 state solution, a fair and just solution to the refugee situation, and the UN enforcing the law. The latter is where it needs to start though, along with ending the blockade.

Then given time, there might come a time when the country combines as one with the moderate normal israelis asking for it, rather than the psychotic twats demanding it on condition all the arabs are dead.

By Dr. Elias Akleh

Al-Nakba is an Arabic term that means the deliberate infliction of a catastrophe on a nation. This term is usually used to refer to the brutal Zionist occupation of Palestine. Sixty eight years ago, in 1948, Zionist Jewish terrorist gangs forcibly occupied the most fertile parts of Palestine, razed to the ground more than 500 Palestinian towns – with their homes, businesses, schools, churches and mosques -, perpetrated at least 50 collective massacres against Palestinian civilians including especially women and children, and forcefully evicted about 800,000 Palestinians out of their homeland, making them refugees living under the mercy of UNRWA.

When talking about Al-Nakba people in general see only a small fraction of the whole picture. They think Al-Nakba refers only to the plight of Palestinians and the Zionist occupation of Palestine. The real Nakba; the whole picture, includes the whole region of the Middle East; the heart of the Arab World.

Al-Nakba is a Zionist military scheme meant to be executed in stages throughout time until the Zionist project of Greater Israel from Nile to Euphrates is accomplished. This scheme was originally envisioned three thousand years ago by the Judaic Talmudic Pharisees, but was not executable until mid-nineteenth century. Although the first stage of the Nakba has officially started in 1948 with the Zionist occupation of Palestine, it actually started, although covertly, years before this date with the gradual immigration of Zionist Jews to Palestine, and with the Jewish Fund purchasing land from the Ottoman feudal occupiers and the evictions of Palestinian farming communities working this land.

The second stage of the Nakba started in 1967 with what is known as the Six-Days War, when the terrorist state of Israel occupied the rest of Palestine, the Sinai and the Golan Heights. At the time evacuation orders drove 400,000 more Palestinians out of their towns into more refugee camps out of their home land. This Judaic cleansing of Palestinians is still going on in many different forms including the theft of Palestinian land for Zionist Jewish settlements (colonies), the routinely on-going demolitions of Palestinian homes especially in Jerusalem and its suburbs, the revocation of residency rights and deportations of Palestinians, the Zionist extremist settlers’ forced occupation of Palestinians homes under the protection of Israeli armed forces and eviction of Palestinian families out, the brutal military operations into several Palestinian cities, the daily murder of Palestinian children by Israeli soldiers, and the inhumane starving siege and the periodic bombardments of the Gaza Strip.

The third stage of the Nakba, which was directed against Lebanon was a failure, since Israel could not expand further north despite all the destruction inflicted on Lebanon. Israel had carried many military campaigns against Lebanon. Israel financed and armed Lebanese Maronite military factions to fight PLO and Palestinian camps in Beirut. This incited a civil war that lasted 25 years, from 1975 to 1990, causing a huge devastation to Lebanese infrastructure and the death of an estimated 250,000 people.

Israel did not stay idle during the time, but invaded Southern Lebanon several times. In 1978 Israel invaded southern Lebanon but pulled out after establishing a border buffer zone within Lebanese area when a U.N. peacekeeping force was deployed to the area. A wider scale Israeli invasion of Lebanon took place in 1982 that eventually led to the evacuation of the PLO from Lebanon under the supervision and protection of the American and French Multinational Force in Lebanon, who established their own barracks in Beirut.

Yet when Israel and the Multinational Force did not leave the country Lebanese formed a resistance movement, later known as Hezbollah, and carried operations against the occupiers. The American/French Multinational Force withdrew from Lebanon after the April 1983 suicide bombing of the American Embassy and barracks and the October 1983 bombing of the French Drakkar barracks. Israel eventually withdrew from southern Lebanon in 2000 but kept the Sheba’a Farms; a border part of southern Lebanon. Israel again launched a 34 day war against Lebanon in 2006 in an attempt to destroy Hezbollah, but faced strong resistance and suffered high casualties.

The fourth stage took place in Iraq in 2003 when the U.S. invaded and devastated the country. Iraq was a major military power in the region. With strong economy and advanced industry Iraq posed a threat to Israel. Tired of the many wars the Israeli army had waged against Palestinian resistance and against Lebanon, Israelis started looking for a proxy army to fight its wars. What is a better army to fight Israel’s wars other than the American army!

Many scientific, military and political investigations point to the fact that Israeli Mossad agents and Zionist American Neocons perpetrated the 911 attacks. The attack was needed to justify American “wars on terror” in the Middle East, specifically against Iraq. Iraq’s infrastructure and industry were destroyed by the American army. Iraqis suffer their own version of Nakba with a very conservative count of 500,000 killed according to the Huffington Post. The real number of killed people could never be known especially when nobody cared to count the casualties. The use of DU (depleted uranium) by the American forces is still causing high rates of death and infant deformation. Almost 4,000,000 Iraqis became refugees; half within Iraq while the other half in the neighboring countries. The fighting is still going on in Iraq through Israeli/American proxy terrorist groups such as ISIS. This was war for Israel.

The fifth stage of the real Nakba was conceitly called the Arab Spring. This was a heinously satanic plan to have Israel’s enemies fight each other in internal sectarian civil wars. This requires the U.S. to sacrifice a couple of the Arab dictators it had supported for a long time in order to give the population the illusion that change is possible. This Arab Spring started in Tunisia in December 2010 getting rid of Zine El Abidine Ben Ali, then followed by Hosni Mubarak of Egypt. These staged revolutions eventually produced as bad dictators. Real popular demonstration/revolutions in other Arab states were brutally crushed and oppressed, especially in Bahrain and Yemen that were crushed by Saudi forces. The Saudi war against Yemen is still going on until today.

This Arab Spring was used to stage revolution against Libya’s Gadhafi, who proposed a golden Dinar as a new African currency. Israel and the U.S. with the cooperation of Qatar shipped al-Qaeda terrorists to Libya, financed and armed them to devastate the country.

The real target of the Arab Spring was Syria, who during the 2006 Israeli war against Lebanon, had shipped weapons to Hezbollah. Robert Ford; the US Ambassador to Syria between 2011 – 2014, was the architect and financer of the rebellion demonstrations against Syrian regime. When these demonstrations did not succeed due to popular support to Al-Assad regime, mercenaries and terrorists were brought in from all over the world including European countries to form terrorist groups such as Al-nusra Front and ISIS to destroy Syria. Robert Ford still insists, contrary to all evidence, that these terrorists are “… moderate and democrats seeking to change Syria’s autocratic system” justifying his financing and arming these terrorists.

These Israeli/American/Qatari/Saudi/Turkish financed and armed terrorist groups had destroyed much of Syria, murdered hundreds of thousands of Syrian civilians, and drove out of the country almost four million Syrians causing a huge refugee crisis. These refugees were abused, taken advantage of, and manipulated to immigrate to Europe.

This is the real Nakba that is hitting one Arab country after the other destroying cities, creating chaos, and causing a huge influx of refugees; people evacuating their own country out of fear for their lives. Ruined, weakened and almost evacuated from large part of their populations, Arab countries bordering the terrorist state of Israel would not be able to stop Israeli expansion to accomplish the Zionist dream of Greater Israel.

The real Nakba is the Arab Nakba and the Palestinian Nakba is just a part of it.

The Real Nakba - Intifada Palestine

Al Nakba, an Arab theory designed to fit all their ills into a perceived Zionist plot.

They'll be making an opera of it next.

Hypocrisy On The Golan Heights

Fifteen countries illegally occupying other countries’ territories have denounced Israel for refusing to surrender the Golan Heights. It’s hard to know whether to laugh or cry – or perhaps just turn the page.

The current president of the United Nations Security Council, Chinese ambassador Liu Jieyi, recently chaired a closed meeting of the 15 council members and announced afterward that they share a “deep concern” about Israel’s position that it will not retreat from the Golan. They insisted that Israel’s presence on the Golan is illegal.

Ambassador Jieyi represents a Chinese regime that has been illegally occupying Tibet since 1950. China also illegally occupies various islands in the South China Sea, including the Paracel Islands, which it seized from Vietnam in 1974, and the Scarborough Shoal, from which it has blocked Phillippine forces since 2012.Medoff-052016

Who are the other Security Council members who are so “concerned” about Israel controlling the Golan?

Among the permanent members of the Council, there’s Russia, which occupied a large portion of Ukraine just two years ago. There’s France, which occupies assorted islands in the Indian Ocean (near Madagascar) and Antarctica. And there’s Great Britain, which occupies a long list of small territories around the world, of which the Falkland Islands are the best known because of Argentina’s unsuccessful 1982 attempt to oust the islands’ British occupiers.

Among the non-permanent current members of the UN Security Council angry at Israel there’s Spain, which occupies the Canary Islands (near Morocco), as well as the cities of Ceuta and Melilla and seven other enclaves on Africa’s northern coast.

There’s Angola, which since 1975 has been occupying the territory of Cabinda. Somebody should ask the spokesmen for the Front for the Liberation of the Cabinda Enclave and the Republic of Cabinda Government in Exile what they think about Angola’s concern regarding the Golan.

Don’t forget Malaysia, which occupies North Borneo, a territory the Philippines claim as its own. Not to mention Venezuela, which occupies Ankoko Island against the wishes of neighboring Guyana. Or Japan, which occupies the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, despite the protests of Taiwan and Communist China. Or Egypt, which occupies the Elba Mountains and the Hala’ib Triangle, territories that are claimed by Sudan.

The only Security Council member that tried to inject even a modicum of reason into the Golan Heights discussion was the United States. Although State Department spokesman John Kirby reiterated the standard U.S. opposition to Israeli administration of the Golan, he at least he acknowledged that “the current situation in Syria makes it difficult [to change the status of the Golan] at this time.”

That, perhaps, is the most important point to be made in this discussion. If Israel were to do as the UN Security Council is demanding, the Golan Heights would be in the control of the genocidal Assad regime or the equally genocidal forces of ISIS.

Anyone who does not appreciate what that would mean for Israel should read Hugh Nissenson’s classic Notes from the Frontier, a poignant chronicle of the months he spent on a kibbutz near the Syrian border in 1965 – that is, when the Golan was in Syria’s hands.

“The Syrian mountains [of the Golan] are about a thousand feet above us, and their fortifications on the slopes completely dominate our settlements,” a kibbutznik explained to Nissenson shortly after his arrival. “They shell us anytime they like, and there’s nothing we can do about it…”

Keeping in mind that Assad and ISIS possess weapons far more dangerous than those of 1965, it’s hardly surprising that Israelis are not anxious to return to the days of being attacked “anytime they like” and being unable to do anything about it.

Today there is something Israelis can do about it. They can stay right where they are and ignore the occupiers who hypocritically complain about others’ occupations.

The Jewish Press » » Hypocrisy On The Golan Heights

Dt Akleh's "The Real Nabka" reads quite plausible. I for one found the narrative intetesting.

Okay.
I also feel that no one wishes to discuss the Ottoman's genocide against Greeks and Armenians leading up to and throughout WW1...together close to if not more than 2 million men, women and children.
Of course the Ottoman "Empire" became Turkey so the white-wash came into play.
[I can't wait until eastern Europe's southern partner is on board the EU-train with Britain...(barring a 'Brex-it').]

Again I'll lay the situation at Britain's doorstep. They cut the deal and threw their hands into the air 25 years after WW1. Of course Britain underestimated the Israeli independence movement against the British trained and equipped Jordanian and Egyptian "Arab" forces.
Israel now has peace with both Egypt and Jordan...both could care less about their prior 'citizens'.

My take (and fear) is that after so many decades of the PLO denying Israel's 'right to exist' that the right-wing Israeli's simply don't want to play at the "Let's make peace table" and "Two States side-by-side at pre-1967 borders"...that game seriously eroded (possibly ended) with the Black September movement played out on television at the 1972 Munich Olympics.
Suicide bombings on buses, hotels and pizzerias during the Intifada's didn't sit well with Israel's 2 million Muslim citizens (25% of the population) either.

The "nice Jews" died in the gas chambers whether you want to deny the Holocaust or not. Now you are dealing with the "Never Again" Jews ('Zionists') that immigrated or are the children of immigrants.
"Never again will we allow the world to take our lives in their hands and tell us we are protected and everything is going to be alright. (Thank you very much for your kind offer.)"

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Originally Posted by sabang

One State, or Two??

Although I would love to see 1 state....

O.K. so we do agree .

Originally Posted by PeeCoffee

Dt Akleh's "The Real Nabka" reads quite plausible. I for one found the narrative intetesting.

Okay.
I also feel that no one wishes to discuss the Ottoman's genocide against Greeks and Armenians leading up to and throughout WW1...together close to if not more than 2 million men, women and children.
Of course the Ottoman "Empire" became Turkey so the white-wash came into play.
[I can't wait until eastern Europe's southern partner is on board the EU-train with Britain...(barring a 'Brex-it').]

Again I'll lay the situation at Britain's doorstep. They cut the deal and threw their hands into the air 25 years after WW1. Of course Britain underestimated the Israeli independence movement against the British trained and equipped Jordanian and Egyptian "Arab" forces.
Israel now has peace with both Egypt and Jordan...both could care less about their prior 'citizens'.

My take (and fear) is that after so many decades of the PLO denying Israel's 'right to exist' that the right-wing Israeli's simply don't want to play at the "Let's make peace table" and "Two States side-by-side at pre-1967 borders"...that game seriously eroded (possibly ended) with the Black September movement played out on television at the 1972 Munich Olympics.
Suicide bombings on buses, hotels and pizzerias during the Intifada's didn't sit well with Israel's 2 million Muslim citizens (25% of the population) either.

The "nice Jews" died in the gas chambers whether you want to deny the Holocaust or not. Now you are dealing with the "Never Again" Jews ('Zionists') that immigrated or are the children of immigrants.
"Never again will we allow the world to take our lives in their hands and tell us we are protected and everything is going to be alright. (Thank you very much for your kind offer.)"

An excellent post, and a good take on the situation.

You're right about the present day Jew, it's no more Mr Nice Guy, as they were forced into being through millenia of persecution by both Arab Muslims and right wing xenophobic Xtians and atheists.

Today's Jew is more than prepared to hit back at anything that attacks or threatens them, and that attitude is re-enforced by the sheer presence of a state of Israel, without which Jews would again be forced to see their imminent demise.

If Muslims want the wars between them and Israel to cease, they'll have to back down and make peace, by recognizing the Jews and Israel's right to peaceful existence with its neighbours.

Originally Posted by ENT

Originally Posted by PeeCoffee

Dt Akleh's "The Real Nabka" reads quite plausible. I for one found the narrative intetesting.

Okay.
I also feel that no one wishes to discuss the Ottoman's genocide against Greeks and Armenians leading up to and throughout WW1...together close to if not more than 2 million men, women and children.
Of course the Ottoman "Empire" became Turkey so the white-wash came into play.
[I can't wait until eastern Europe's southern partner is on board the EU-train with Britain...(barring a 'Brex-it').]

Again I'll lay the situation at Britain's doorstep. They cut the deal and threw their hands into the air 25 years after WW1. Of course Britain underestimated the Israeli independence movement against the British trained and equipped Jordanian and Egyptian "Arab" forces.
Israel now has peace with both Egypt and Jordan...both could care less about their prior 'citizens'.

My take (and fear) is that after so many decades of the PLO denying Israel's 'right to exist' that the right-wing Israeli's simply don't want to play at the "Let's make peace table" and "Two States side-by-side at pre-1967 borders"...that game seriously eroded (possibly ended) with the Black September movement played out on television at the 1972 Munich Olympics.
Suicide bombings on buses, hotels and pizzerias during the Intifada's didn't sit well with Israel's 2 million Muslim citizens (25% of the population) either.

The "nice Jews" died in the gas chambers whether you want to deny the Holocaust or not. Now you are dealing with the "Never Again" Jews ('Zionists') that immigrated or are the children of immigrants.
"Never again will we allow the world to take our lives in their hands and tell us we are protected and everything is going to be alright. (Thank you very much for your kind offer.)"

An excellent post, and a good take on the situation.

You're right about the present day Jew, it's no more Mr Nice Guy, as they were forced into being through millenia of persecution by both Arab Muslims and right wing xenophobic Xtians and atheists.

Today's Jew is more than prepared to hit back at anything that attacks or threatens them, and that attitude is re-enforced by the sheer presence of a state of Israel, without which Jews would again be forced to see their imminent demise.

If Muslims want the wars between them and Israel to cease, they'll have to back down and make peace, by recognizing the Jews and Israel's right to peaceful existence with its neighbours.

Yeah a good thought , trouble is Islam will not allow it .

Originally Posted by PeeCoffee

Of course Britain underestimated the Israeli independence movement

Hardly- they signed the Balfour Declaration, and were instrumental in the formation of Israel. The fact some idiotic, fantasising zionists resent the fact that Israel was 'restricted' (scoff) to land west of the Jordan river- ie something approximating ancient Israel, at it's largest extent, and not Jordan itself, which it never had any historic claim to, is a total non sequitur.

But enough is never enough for some of these bigots, is it? They just want ever more land, and to be able to pretend that the indigenous population does not exist, and has no Rights. Fail.

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by PeeCoffee

Of course Britain underestimated the Israeli independence movement

Hardly- they signed the Balfour Declaration, and were instrumental in the formation of Israel. The fact some idiotic, fantasising zionists resent the fact that Israel was 'restricted' (scoff) to land west of the Jordan river- ie something approximating ancient Israel, at it's largest extent, and not Jordan itself, which it never had any historic claim to, is a total non sequitur.

But enough is never enough for some of these bigots, is it? They just want ever more land, and to be able to pretend that the indigenous population does not exist, and has no Rights. Fail.

For all anyone knows but for the 6 day war the West Bank would still be Annexed by Jordan and Gaza Egyptian territory .

In which case the indigenous population would be citizens of Jordan and Egypt respectively.

Originally Posted by sabang

In which case the indigenous population would be citizens of Jordan and Egypt respectively.

You mean they would not be Palestinians ? You should read something by a guy called Walid Shoebat he said he went to bed as a Jordanian and woke up next morning as a Palestinian .

Reply to Sabang's post # 969 》 As they were previously.

Originally Posted by sabang

In which case the indigenous population would be citizens of Jordan and Egypt respectively.

As they were previously that OK Pee Coffee

Originally Posted by piwanoi

You mean they would not be Palestinians ?

Yet again, you show your glaring ignorance. Close to 50% of the population of Jordan Is Palestinian- they are the largest ethnic group there.

And Walid Dingbat is a well known fraud- not even worth commenting on. Are you going to quote "From Time Immemorial" next?

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by piwanoi

You mean they would not be Palestinians ?

Yet again, you show your glaring ignorance. Close to 50% of the population of Jordan Is Palestinian- they are the largest ethnic group there.

And Walid Dingbat is a well known fraud- not even worth commenting on. Are you going to quote "From Time Immemorial" next?

Still does not change the simple fact that if there had been no 6 day war the Israeli's would not have been accused of stealing THEIR land ,even though Hamas was living in Land under Egypt's Control and Fatah in The West bank which was under Jordans Control why did the so called Palestinians not accuse Egypt and Jordan of stealing their land? maybe it was OK until the Jews took over eh and they did not like their landlords . You say Shoebat is a fraud , are you saying the Arafat was a genuine sort of guy? or even the Multi millionaire Hamas leaders

This must be some sort of record. Damn.

The Palestine region or parts of it have been controlled by numerous different peoples and regional powers, including the Canaanites, Amorites,[2] Ancient Egyptians, Israelites, Moabites, Ammonites, Tjeker, Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, different dynasties of the Early Muslim period (Umayads, Abbasids, Seljuqs, Fatimids), Crusaders, Late Muslim dynasties (Ayyubids, Mamluks, Ottoman Turks), the British, Jordanians (1948–1967, on the "West Bank") and Egyptians (in Gaza), and modern Israelis and Palestinians.