Thread: The U.K and the E.U - In or out?

Betty, I see you're doing a Piwanoi and not reading the entire article. The article says this makes an independence referendum more likely, not less.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission president, also made clear that neither he nor European Council president Donald Tusk would “interfere in the British process” by negotiating with Scotland.

All he could say at the moment. UK must first exit and Scotland must leave the UK before EU can negotiate with Scotland.

Looks like a cash shortfall for Scotland between the day Scotland's possible independence and then its application for membership and dependence on EU.

It'll all take time.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Betty, I see you're doing a Piwanoi and not reading the entire article. The article says this makes an independence referendum more likely, not less.

^ says Sturgeon... Reading glasses are cheap here in Korea, Bob; do you want me to send some over to you?

Sturgeon should have been patient and looked for the best route forward for Scotland, but instead she made loud and bold predictions which are shrinking before her eyes by the day.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

But his statement also suggests that a separate Scotland would start life outside the EU and have to negotiate entry, a process that could take years and involve adoption of the euro, a hard border with England and tight public spending controls.
Nicola Sturgeon's hopes of keeping Scotland in EU hit by Francois Hollande and Spanish PM Rajoy

&, very limited oil/gas ownership.

The Scottish will be voting to stay in Britain, again...

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

The Scottish will be voting to stay in Britain, again...

I think so.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

The Scottish will be voting to stay in Britain, again

Most figured the UK would vote to stay in EU. Oops. Shock n' awe.

The EU can't afford another bunch of spongers; they'll leave the UK to clear up Sturgeon and Salmond's mess.

The EU needed a kick up the arse, and this situation could be a big positive for them to refocus and rethink.

Brexit is good, imho, but Britain still has the massive problem of our own incompetent and corrupt politicians; you wouldn't want Borris and UKIP getting power (or at least, I wouldn't). What British politicians are gonna stand up against Globalization (when it means crony capitalism, not equal opportunities), our corrupt banking sector and deal with our corrupt politicians?

The constant referencing to Scotland keeping the pound fail to recognise that Scotland already has it's own pound. They print their own notes, and in the event of independence one assumes that Scotland would receive it's share of reserves on which to base it's value. Think US/Canadian dollar (or Australian/New Zealand etc).

Subsequent to independence, and after complying with current entry criteria to the EU, they would be obliged to adopt the Euro, again when their national finances met that further criteria.

Originally Posted by Norton

Must admit all very entertaining watching UK and EU polititians milling about smartly to spin it all as a no worries positive incident. Liars the lot..

It isn't, the EU is just another over hyped neoliberal clusterfuck.

Originally Posted by PAG

The constant referencing to Scotland keeping the pound fail to recognise that Scotland already has it's own pound. They print their own notes, and in the event of independence one assumes that Scotland would receive it's share of reserves on which to base it's value. Think US/Canadian dollar (or Australian/New Zealand etc).

Subsequent to independence, and after complying with current entry criteria to the EU, they would be obliged to adopt the Euro, again when their national finances met that further criteria.

Pretty sure none of that is actually correct.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

It is ridiculously obvious that Scotland CANNOT remain in the EU when Britain leave. It has been spelled out by just about every European leader who has commented on the issue, as was always gonna be the case. There is zero wiggle room for Scotland, and I'm very surprised you'd suggest otherwise.

OF course it's obvious and I'm not suggesting otherwise. What I'm suggesting will happen is expedited EU membership for Scotland if it achieves independence. Clearly Scotland can't be a member of the EU if it remains part of the United Kingdom.

Originally Posted by Begbie

Originally Posted by PAG

The constant referencing to Scotland keeping the pound fail to recognise that Scotland already has it's own pound. They print their own notes, and in the event of independence one assumes that Scotland would receive it's share of reserves on which to base it's value. Think US/Canadian dollar (or Australian/New Zealand etc).

Subsequent to independence, and after complying with current entry criteria to the EU, they would be obliged to adopt the Euro, again when their national finances met that further criteria.

Pretty sure none of that is actually correct.

I thought that you were Scots Begbie? Indpendence for Scotland has to mean they would receive a proportionate share of the UK's reserves (be it gold or anything else). How else could any currency they choose to use be supported).

Whilst the Scottish pound would likely be floated in the markets at the same level as the UK pound, then it would be subject to the same market influences and conditions as any other country.

The 3 main Scottish banks all issue their own notes (RBS, Bank of Scotland, and Clydesdale).

I'm fairly sure that it can still be a problem having Scottish notes accepted readily in England, except in those areas near the border.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

However, Mr Rajoy went much further, telling told a news conference following a summit of European leaders in Brussels: "I want to be very clear.

"Scotland does not have the competence to negotiate with the European Union. Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of United Kingdom.

"I am extremely against it, the treaties are extremely against it and I believe everyone is extremely against it. If the United Kingdom leaves... Scotland leaves.”

But Ms Sturgeon said she had received “a sympathetic response” that Scotland was being pulled out of the EU against its will and she would fly back to Edinburgh in “good heart”.
Nicola Sturgeon's hopes of keeping Scotland in EU hit by Francois Hollande and Spanish PM Rajoy



Doesn't sound very sympathetic to me...

I suspect the word 'competence' relates to something like not having the legal ability to negotiate (as Scotland is still part of the UK) rather than lacking in skill or knowledge.

The EU leaders made it clear they would listen to Sturgeon and nothing else. That is what they did.

Originally Posted by PAG

Originally Posted by Begbie

Originally Posted by PAG

The constant referencing to Scotland keeping the pound fail to recognise that Scotland already has it's own pound. They print their own notes, and in the event of independence one assumes that Scotland would receive it's share of reserves on which to base it's value. Think US/Canadian dollar (or Australian/New Zealand etc).

Subsequent to independence, and after complying with current entry criteria to the EU, they would be obliged to adopt the Euro, again when their national finances met that further criteria.

Pretty sure none of that is actually correct.

I thought that you were Scots Begbie? Indpendence for Scotland has to mean they would receive a proportionate share of the UK's reserves (be it gold or anything else). How else could any currency they choose to use be supported).

Whilst the Scottish pound would likely be floated in the markets at the same level as the UK pound, then it would be subject to the same market influences and conditions as any other country.

The 3 main Scottish banks all issue their own notes (RBS, Bank of Scotland, and Clydesdale).

I'm fairly sure that it can still be a problem having Scottish notes accepted readily in England, except in those areas near the border.

They'd have to print loads of cash to pay off their share of the UK's debt.

Then try joining the Euro - I'm pretty sure Brussels wants to take on another debtor nation!

Examples of the 3 Scottish Bank's notes:







There's a good explanation for EU rules on members/applicant nations adopting the EU here:

Who can join and when? - European Commission

Originally Posted by Begbie

Scottish pounds are not a separate currency.

Not suggesting they are, only that Scottish pounds exist. Of course it's exactly the same value as anything issued by the Bank of England, my point being is the name 'pound', and the analogy with 'dollar'.

Realistically, it will take a minimum of 2 years plus for the UK to extricate itself from the EU (assuming that it will indeed go ahead).

How long do you think Scottish independence would take? Think division of overall UK assets and services, both civil service and military. There would certainly be a burgeoning of Scotland's public sector for sure, creating all of their new departments and a building boom providing offices to accommodate them.

It wouldn't be the same as dealing a pack of cards around the table.

Indeed, the more realistic time frame for England to forge its new commercial relationship with the world including its European neighbours will be around seven years.
Scotland, given the clear indication from the EU that they must first gain independence before they join the EU, will arrange for their freedom vote immediately. Implementing the break will take two years. Their deficit is large and not immediately appealing but the fundamentals are sound and it wouldn't take too much persuasion for the ECB to adopt a relaxed view.

Scotland should adopt the Euro but any break should maximise pain for the Sassenach cvunts.

Joining Schengen would be most amusing and fuck the English Border Force and that desiccated bitch, May, right up the arse.

^

Although a further Scottish referendum is likely, it certainly wouldn't happen until after the UK actually leaves the EU. How else could the Scottish electorate decide between full independence or remaining within the UK with whatever terms of relationship with the EU are negotiated?

Awaiting the outcome of the English dickering with the EU is silly and not worth the delay. The EUcrats are making nice noises about the English but that is simply smoke for the markets. There is no way Spain, France and the krauts will accept a diminution of free movement for an EU wide free trade agreement.

Scotland prevaricating will simply waste time. They should vote within 3 months in principle and then, like the English, wait until they pull the trigger to implement.

The most important thing is to sort the vote now and find out whether they have a majority mandate.

Once the world knows the English aren't going to get what they want the £ will fall again and also any other shock that may occur elsewhere in the world will further undermine its position. England alone is so vulnerable and the sweats do not want to be pulled down into the abyss when the English fuckers are finally pushed into it.

Gibraltar returning to Spain will be the new reality demonstrating the English weakness and utter abject failure post Empire. It took 60 years after Suez but it's finally entering the last phase.

Fuck 'em.