Betty, I see you're doing a Piwanoi and not reading the entire article. The article says this makes an independence referendum more likely, not less.
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Betty, I see you're doing a Piwanoi and not reading the entire article. The article says this makes an independence referendum more likely, not less.
All he could say at the moment. UK must first exit and Scotland must leave the UK before EU can negotiate with Scotland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
^ exactly as I said from the start. I am not against Scottish Independence, never have been, but it's simply not possible before Britain leaves the EU. &, if Scotland went for independence: they would not be keeping the pound, they'd need a land border with Britain and they will not be keeping the oil/gas reserves in anything like the way they imagine...
However, Mr Rajoy went much further, telling told a news conference following a summit of European leaders in Brussels: "I want to be very clear.
"Scotland does not have the competence to negotiate with the European Union. Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of United Kingdom.
"I am extremely against it, the treaties are extremely against it and I believe everyone is extremely against it. If the United Kingdom leaves... Scotland leaves.”
But Ms Sturgeon said she had received “a sympathetic response” that Scotland was being pulled out of the EU against its will and she would fly back to Edinburgh in “good heart”.
Nicola Sturgeon's hopes of keeping Scotland in EU hit by Francois Hollande and Spanish PM Rajoy
:rofl:
Doesn't sound very sympathetic to me...
Looks like a cash shortfall for Scotland between the day Scotland's possible independence and then its application for membership and dependence on EU.
It'll all take time.
^ says Sturgeon... Reading glasses are cheap here in Korea, Bob; do you want me to send some over to you? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
Sturgeon should have been patient and looked for the best route forward for Scotland, but instead she made loud and bold predictions which are shrinking before her eyes by the day.
&, very limited oil/gas ownership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
The Scottish will be voting to stay in Britain, again...
I think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
Most figured the UK would vote to stay in EU. Oops. Shock n' awe. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
The EU can't afford another bunch of spongers; they'll leave the UK to clear up Sturgeon and Salmond's mess.
Must admit all very entertaining watching UK and EU polititians milling about smartly to spin it all as a no worries positive incident. Liars the lot..
The EU needed a kick up the arse, and this situation could be a big positive for them to refocus and rethink.
Brexit is good, imho, but Britain still has the massive problem of our own incompetent and corrupt politicians; you wouldn't want Borris and UKIP getting power (or at least, I wouldn't). What British politicians are gonna stand up against Globalization (when it means crony capitalism, not equal opportunities), our corrupt banking sector and deal with our corrupt politicians?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
Of course not. Hollande and Rajoy don't want to set an example the Basques and Catalans could follow. Their attitude is no surprise but it is not the showstopper you and the Telegraph seem to think it is. A number of European countries fear nationalist seperatism but it will be seen that Scottish Independence and EU membership are in a different category to the demands of Catalans and Basques.
The constant referencing to Scotland keeping the pound fail to recognise that Scotland already has it's own pound. They print their own notes, and in the event of independence one assumes that Scotland would receive it's share of reserves on which to base it's value. Think US/Canadian dollar (or Australian/New Zealand etc).
Subsequent to independence, and after complying with current entry criteria to the EU, they would be obliged to adopt the Euro, again when their national finances met that further criteria.
I respectfully disagree. Spain will not allow a precedent of any type; they have made that very clear indeed - far too dangerous for them, and many other countries feel the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrB0b
It is ridiculously obvious that Scotland CANNOT remain in the EU when Britain leave. It has been spelled out by just about every European leader who has commented on the issue, as was always gonna be the case. There is zero wiggle room for Scotland, and I'm very surprised you'd suggest otherwise.
Scotland, down the line, may be an independant nation in the EU, and good luck to them, but, they must leave the EU first, then separate from Britain, then start the process of joining the EU. If you think Britain leaving the EU will be time consuming and costly then just think about the double process for Scotland...
Let's turn it around then and say Scotland will be asked to take on the Euro, as you said. A very difficult and lengthy process for them, but possible. If they choose that route, good luck to them, but it'd be incredibly ignorant to do so without seeing how Britain was doing first; only an opportunist politician, nationalists and silly folk would consider it. Anybody who wants the best for Scotland and doesn't care about Britain per se would still wanna wait to see how Brexit works out - that's just common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAG
It isn't, the EU is just another over hyped neoliberal clusterfuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
Pretty sure none of that is actually correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAG
OF course it's obvious and I'm not suggesting otherwise. What I'm suggesting will happen is expedited EU membership for Scotland if it achieves independence. Clearly Scotland can't be a member of the EU if it remains part of the United Kingdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
I thought that you were Scots Begbie? Indpendence for Scotland has to mean they would receive a proportionate share of the UK's reserves (be it gold or anything else). How else could any currency they choose to use be supported).Quote:
Originally Posted by BegbiePretty sure none of that is actually correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAG
Whilst the Scottish pound would likely be floated in the markets at the same level as the UK pound, then it would be subject to the same market influences and conditions as any other country.
The 3 main Scottish banks all issue their own notes (RBS, Bank of Scotland, and Clydesdale).
I'm fairly sure that it can still be a problem having Scottish notes accepted readily in England, except in those areas near the border.
I suspect the word 'competence' relates to something like not having the legal ability to negotiate (as Scotland is still part of the UK) rather than lacking in skill or knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettyboo
The EU leaders made it clear they would listen to Sturgeon and nothing else. That is what they did.
They'd have to print loads of cash to pay off their share of the UK's debt.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAGI thought that you were Scots Begbie? Indpendence for Scotland has to mean they would receive a proportionate share of the UK's reserves (be it gold or anything else). How else could any currency they choose to use be supported).Quote:
Originally Posted by BegbiePretty sure none of that is actually correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAG
Whilst the Scottish pound would likely be floated in the markets at the same level as the UK pound, then it would be subject to the same market influences and conditions as any other country.
The 3 main Scottish banks all issue their own notes (RBS, Bank of Scotland, and Clydesdale).
I'm fairly sure that it can still be a problem having Scottish notes accepted readily in England, except in those areas near the border.
Then try joining the Euro - I'm pretty sure Brussels wants to take on another debtor nation!
:rofl:
Examples of the 3 Scottish Bank's notes:
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif
There's a good explanation for EU rules on members/applicant nations adopting the EU here:
Who can join and when? - European Commission
Scottish pounds are not a separate currency.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAGI thought that you were Scots Begbie? Indpendence for Scotland has to mean they would receive a proportionate share of the UK's reserves (be it gold or anything else). How else could any currency they choose to use be supported).Quote:
Originally Posted by BegbiePretty sure none of that is actually correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAG
Whilst the Scottish pound would likely be floated in the markets at the same level as the UK pound, then it would be subject to the same market influences and conditions as any other country.
The 3 main Scottish banks all issue their own notes (RBS, Bank of Scotland, and Clydesdale).
I'm fairly sure that it can still be a problem having Scottish notes accepted readily in England, except in those areas near the border.
By reserves do you mean gold? The U.K. Stopped using gold to guarantee it's currency a very long time ago.
Admittance to the Euro zone isn't automatic.
The big question is UK debt which has doubled since the Tories came to power. Would Scotland pick up a per capita proportion?
One a side note has the value of that debt dropped 10% in the last week due to devaluation of the currency. Perhaps Osbourne isn't the addled moron he presents himself as.
Not suggesting they are, only that Scottish pounds exist. Of course it's exactly the same value as anything issued by the Bank of England, my point being is the name 'pound', and the analogy with 'dollar'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Begbie
Realistically, it will take a minimum of 2 years plus for the UK to extricate itself from the EU (assuming that it will indeed go ahead).
How long do you think Scottish independence would take? Think division of overall UK assets and services, both civil service and military. There would certainly be a burgeoning of Scotland's public sector for sure, creating all of their new departments and a building boom providing offices to accommodate them.
It wouldn't be the same as dealing a pack of cards around the table.
Indeed, the more realistic time frame for England to forge its new commercial relationship with the world including its European neighbours will be around seven years.
Scotland, given the clear indication from the EU that they must first gain independence before they join the EU, will arrange for their freedom vote immediately. Implementing the break will take two years. Their deficit is large and not immediately appealing but the fundamentals are sound and it wouldn't take too much persuasion for the ECB to adopt a relaxed view.
Scotland should adopt the Euro but any break should maximise pain for the Sassenach cvunts.
Joining Schengen would be most amusing and fuck the English Border Force and that desiccated bitch, May, right up the arse.
^
Although a further Scottish referendum is likely, it certainly wouldn't happen until after the UK actually leaves the EU. How else could the Scottish electorate decide between full independence or remaining within the UK with whatever terms of relationship with the EU are negotiated?
Awaiting the outcome of the English dickering with the EU is silly and not worth the delay. The EUcrats are making nice noises about the English but that is simply smoke for the markets. There is no way Spain, France and the krauts will accept a diminution of free movement for an EU wide free trade agreement.
Scotland prevaricating will simply waste time. They should vote within 3 months in principle and then, like the English, wait until they pull the trigger to implement.
The most important thing is to sort the vote now and find out whether they have a majority mandate.
Once the world knows the English aren't going to get what they want the £ will fall again and also any other shock that may occur elsewhere in the world will further undermine its position. England alone is so vulnerable and the sweats do not want to be pulled down into the abyss when the English fuckers are finally pushed into it.
Gibraltar returning to Spain will be the new reality demonstrating the English weakness and utter abject failure post Empire. It took 60 years after Suez but it's finally entering the last phase.
Fuck 'em.