The U.K and the E.U - In or out?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PAG

Can't remember to whom this quote is attributed, but "lies, damn lies, and statistics" has sprung to mind from both sides over the last few weeks/months.

Bottom line for me at least is whether the UK population wishes to retain their present situation re economics and immigration etc through Remain (with seemingly little to no chance of change in the future, or whether the majority will say 'bring it on, we'll do it our way'. Simplistic I know, but for many who see no hope of change or improvement to their and their families future, maybe the risk is worth taking.

---

Seems you don't want to know the truth... I don't see anyone on the Remain campaign using Nazi style propaganda to stir up sentiment.. in fact most of those that know full well that leaving the EU will be a disaster are also very much of the mind that they think politics in the UK are total bollocks anyway and the country is fucked by austerity, war and cuts to public services, not by immigration or contributions to the EU.

But why should I give a fuck..? I already voted with my feet. But it bothers me that the agenda in the UK is being driven by closet racists preying on the fears of the gullible.

Britain is fucked because the electorate has been sold down the river so many times before on promises of a brighter, more secure future and this time is no different. Britain out of the EU will be a financial and therefore social disaster.

---

The Frenchman campaign tactics are incredibly nasty and sleazy, in fact the only reason why the leave campaign had done as well as it has it's because awfulness of the remain campaign.

^^No... that's just you being an ignorant prick with your head in the sand.

just in case you missed it.. :rolleyes:

https://teakdoor.com/images/smilies1/You_Rock_Emoticon.gif

“All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked. Works the same way in any country”

Hermann Goering

^^^ typical remainer. Yes farage is not the greatest bloke in the world, but it's not about him. Who have you been tricked into thinking is attacking you?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PAG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neo

If you want to know the facts on the issues surrounding Brexit then look at Full Fact.
Or if you want to be a sheep driven by racist, nationalist hatred and outright lies.. don't.

Up to you :chitown: https://fullfact.org/

---

And perhaps learn a little more about "fullfact.org" here:


Enza Ferreri: UK Fact-Checker "Full Fact" Is not Impartial

---

Enza Ferreri is a right-wing racist from Liberty GB

---

So PAG.. you don't actually check the site to test the veracity of the facts yourself, but instead find a right wing blogger that denounces it... totally in keeping with the self imposed ignorance preferred by the leave campaign.

---

See my post 1040. Point is, it's relatively easy for both sides to throw these seeming facts into the equation to suit their own agendas and hypothetical projections (for that's all they are). It's fair game to knock and ridicule opinions that differ from our own, however this referendum has polarised people far beyond a typical UK election, and the long term geo political effects will not dissipate for a long time.

Core Labour supporters disenfranchised from their party leadership. Conservatives undergoing self flagellation. What ever happens tomorrow, who's going to pick up the ball and run with it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by longway

Yes farage is not the greatest bloke in the world, but it's not about him.

---

You're an idiot, you deserve the miserable future you are voting for.

EU referendum: No new reform deal for UK after vote, Jean Claude Juncker warns
European Commission President's comments will be seized upon by Leave campaign as evidence of EU leadership’s intransigence over Britain’s terms of membership.

In a last minute intervention that will be viewed as deeply unhelpful by David Cameron and the Remain camp, Mr Juncker said the Prime Minister had already “got the maximum he could receive” from his pre-referendum negotiation in February.

Mr Cameron has said repeatedly this week that he will use a Remain vote to push for further reform of the EU, particularly around freedom of movement rules.


But Mr Juncker’s comments, made to reporters in Brussels on the eve of Britain’s historic In-Out referendum, will be seized upon by the Leave campaign as evidence of the EU leadership’s intransigence over Britain’s terms of membership.

“The British policymakers and British voters have to know that there will be not be any kind of renegotiation,” Mr Juncker said.

“We have concluded a deal with the Prime Minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned.”

EU referendum: No new reform deal for UK after vote, Jean Claude Juncker warns | UK Politics | News | The Independent



Juncker is the gift that keeps on giving! Proof point number 1000 or so of why we need to vote leave tomorrow. I want my kids to grow up in a free and democratic country that determines its own future, not a superstate like this.
They claim its a democracy of 28 nations but then this guy stands up and declares on his own what "can" or "cannot" happen. Much like Merkel last year with her unilateral "lets open the floodgates and change the whole culture of Europe" decision last year on behalf of all of us without even asking if anyone minds.
:UK:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Scotland already voted on having nothing to do with us and lost .

---

Use your common sense (oop sorry I forgot you haven't got any). Scotland has said they will want another referendum if Britain votes out - do try reading, understanding and comprehending the news. :rolleyes:

---

Why not be truthful (for a change) and just say it slipped your mind that they had already had a referendum instead of making insipid excuses:rofl:

---

Have you ever heard of the general election? Do please learn to read as you clearly have neither read nor understood anything that was said! :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Neo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by longway

Yes farage is not the greatest bloke in the world, but it's not about him.

---

Im nuts.

---

the eu will save us from....? Is as if you think there is nothing good in the uk, all good resides in the eu. Mad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin

^Nice rant Betty but you overlook the fact that most problems occur from within our own country.

---

That is a separate issue, Sir and in no way mitigates my points.

---

I don't think so..............

edit: duplicate post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PAG

May have escaped your attention Ronin, but as of the last Scottish Parliament elections, the SNP no longer have an overall majority in their Parliament. Ironically, the Conservatives are now the second most rèpresented party. By inference, a call for a further Scottish referendum wouldn't even leave Edinburgh.

---

Do you live on the moon?

Scottish Parliament Elections 2016: SNP wins historic third term

Had a chat with a good friend who is over from England for the week. I was surprised to learn he has voted to leave. Professional middle class, worked in UK, Europe and USA, voted to enter the common market etc., Hallmarks of sensibility and core remain material.

The change is not due to media hype or gentle persuasion from the Boris camp but simply against the Maastricht Treaty, which he thinks should have been voted on by referendum.

On the trade deficit, he is pinning his hopes on horse hill and the oil reserves meeting 25% of UK demand.

This Brexit thingy is turning even the most sensible people into fruit and nut cases.

Come quick Remainiacs!

There's a giant hummingbird about to eat your hat and cloak!
I keep hearing the gullible mantra from the innies "It's better to stay in and reform."
Listen you nincompoops! The minute JP Juncker the chief Euro funker has it confirmed that you have sold the rest of us down the river he'll be having none of that jazz!
You'll be the prize cash cow in the euro herd and they'll be milking you until the only thing coming out of your over pulled udders is steam.
So go on, listen to the advice of top economists like David Schmeckham, Bob the off shore tax pirate Geldof and Eddie the pink bereted Guevara Izzard and confine us to the good ol' US of E forever.
I'll be off with what little wealth I've managed to amass at the first opportunity (about 50 or 60 years hopefully) The government can buy my house at a premium price for the nice Turkish family.
EDIT: When I say family, I mean 5 blokes between the age of 20 and 40 working for cash in hand.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

For me, it's pretty simple: as governance moves further away and becomes more opaque, people feel disenfranchised (because they are), corruption massively increases (the centralized monies ever increasing with procedures so distant and complex that a Federal Europe is a corrupt politician's wet dream) and governance itself becomes worse (the distance between the individual citizen and governance decision mechanism is huge) or indeed secondary (politiking at the federal level will increasingly dominate and push real needs and governance off the agenda).

This central identity and being part of Europe is fine at a personal and national level when it means respecting others and working together. It is also fine at a trading level when it benefits both parties by removing red tape and overly bureaurcratic mechanisms (of course, we have seen the opposite happening...). But, it is not fine when it means rewriting European boundaries of nation states and political ownership by the electorate in said nation states. For example, whatever the rights and wrongs of Greece, we have seen that the nation state was unable to forward their political agenda and the citizens voice was crushed by banking and political institutions outside of that nation state - this is wrong. It empowers bankers and institutions, and as we saw in that case private sector debt was socialized while private sector profits remained corporatized - totally corrupt, the banks get richer, the politicians that enable the corruption get richer and the individuals have their pension money taken away and lose jobs and get poorer.

Local governance, citizen engagement, highly visible checks and balances are always preferable to distant governance, a disinfranchized citizenship and complex/opaque regulations/laws, that is unless you're a corrupt politician, a faceless institution or a corporate lobbyist.

We will not be allowed Brexit, and we will be totally fuked from here on in. &, yes, it is the fukin Fourth Reich...

---

Who are the biggest supporters of the EU project ?
Big bankers, heads of mega-charities and NGOs, cartel politicians, civil servants, spokesmen for trade and professional associations, lobbyists, directors of multi-national corporations.
Its a bit like the FIFA and IOC. Everyone knows its corrupt but everyone want to stay in or come in.

And a few expats from TD worrying about lunch money £ :rolleyes:

^ & ^^ I see the Nobel committee are in town:rolleyes:

^

Let me guess ? Your a civil servant :rolleyes:

Let the dominos roll and I don't mean pizzas ..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

^

Let me guess ? Your a civil servant :rolleyes:

---

I'm neither civil nor servile.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PAG

Must admit, at the beginning of the campaigning, I felt that there would be vote in favour of 'Remain', albeit I haven't lived in the UK for nearly 20 years, and hence can't profess to have first hand knowledge of people's feelings.

However, in spite of all the warnings of impending calamity that both camps have been touting as the future, what has amazed me is that the more that the 'Remain' side leaders and their allies in Europe and elsewhere try to frighten the populace into signing on for more of the same, the more the polls indicate an increasing lead for "Leave".

What is truly astonishing is how at odds the Labour Party is with it's own supporters, and in this instance doesn't appear to be able to grasp the depth of feelings around immigration.

The ready source of EU labour willing to work for less and for longer, worries workers. The lack of housing and large increases in rent cannot be helped by the numbers seeking it, growing year after year. These are the real time economics that people are interested in, not the potential decline in the value of sterling, or the spiralling fall of share prices.

---

You need to look up a few facts; the lack of housing is the fault of the government that has prevented local councils from building new housing stock. In addition a good number of the immigrants don't work for anything less than the British.

Jean Claude Juncker's words iz the biz.

There's no better deal for UK in the EU than what's already on the table, no further discussions on that.

Whichever way the vote swings, UK isn't going to get anything more from the EU.

Remain and be dominated by Brussels, France and Germany's ambitions or leave and set a more independent course for the future.

There are no further advantages beyond the status quo if UK stays in the EU.

Stay in the EU now and forever UK will be slave to Brussels and Europe's wide open doors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ENT

Jean Claude Juncker's words iz the biz.

There's no better deal for UK in the EU than what's already on the table, no further discussions on that.

Whichever way the vote swings, UK isn't going to get anything more from the EU.

Remain and be dominated by Brussels, France and Germany's ambitions or leave and set a more independent course for the future.

There are no further advantages beyond the status quo if UK stays in the EU.

Stay in the EU now and forever UK will be slave to Brussels and Europe's wide open doors.

---

Yeah if Camoron thinks he's going to get a slap on the back and given more concessions if we stay in then he had better think again !EU referendum - Brussels boss Jean-Claude Juncker says no more reform after Brexit vote | Politics | News | Daily Express

and if that odious turd junker thinks that the only way the eu can be held together is by threatening and coercing britain in order to scare other members against seeking change or exit then he is all but admitting that the eu is an undemocratic entity and a failure, a prison in fact, in which case the project is as good as doomed.

england is not the only country seeking change, but england is the most vocal, and change will come in the next few years if the eu is to survive at all, because it cannot continue in its present form.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PAG

May have escaped your attention Ronin, but as of the last Scottish Parliament elections, the SNP no longer have an overall majority in their Parliament. Ironically, the Conservatives are now the second most rèpresented party. By inference, a call for a further Scottish referendum wouldn't even leave Edinburgh.

---

Do you live on the moon?

Scottish Parliament Elections 2016: SNP wins historic third term

---

Your link confirms the SNP, though they are the largest party, do not have an overall majority (which I think I stated).

Hopefully when the vote results come in tomorrow, they will show the numbers region by region. Could be a few surprises in store.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

EU referendum: No new reform deal for UK after vote, Jean Claude Juncker warns
European Commission President's comments will be seized upon by Leave campaign as evidence of EU leadership’s intransigence over Britain’s terms of membership.

In a last minute intervention that will be viewed as deeply unhelpful by David Cameron and the Remain camp, Mr Juncker said the Prime Minister had already “got the maximum he could receive” from his pre-referendum negotiation in February.

Mr Cameron has said repeatedly this week that he will use a Remain vote to push for further reform of the EU, particularly around freedom of movement rules.


But Mr Juncker’s comments, made to reporters in Brussels on the eve of Britain’s historic In-Out referendum, will be seized upon by the Leave campaign as evidence of the EU leadership’s intransigence over Britain’s terms of membership.

“The British policymakers and British voters have to know that there will be not be any kind of renegotiation,” Mr Juncker said.

“We have concluded a deal with the Prime Minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned.”

EU referendum: No new reform deal for UK after vote, Jean Claude Juncker warns | UK Politics | News | The Independent



Juncker is the gift that keeps on giving! Proof point number 1000 or so of why we need to vote leave tomorrow. I want my kids to grow up in a free and democratic country that determines its own future, not a superstate like this.
They claim its a democracy of 28 nations but then this guy stands up and declares on his own what "can" or "cannot" happen. Much like Merkel last year with her unilateral "lets open the floodgates and change the whole culture of Europe" decision last year on behalf of all of us without even asking if anyone minds.
:UK:

---

Interesting article about Herr Juncker :) Articles: The EU is a Dictatorship that Britain Should Leave

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piwanoi

!EU referendum - Brussels boss Jean-Claude Juncker says no more reform after Brexit vote | Politics | News | Daily Express

---

No, Juncker said no more special favours for Britain.
Daily Express wants you to think that reforming EU will not happen.

Today is a great day, the day the UK will fuck itself into isolation, and leave us REAL Europeans alone. About fucking time.

let's celebrate !!!

Could this be the start of the Domino effect ? After Brexit, Would It Be Swexit And Grexit?

The chances are that the Bremain side will win. However, I feel that the EU then should kick the UK out the EU.

The reason is simple: one part of the UK believes that the EU is a another trick of the Germans to win control over Europe, with their leader Boris Johnson who sees no difference between the plans of the Nazi’s for Europe and the plans of the EU.

And those who want to remain in the EU believe that they actually do the EU a favour, for which they want concessions in return. More concessions again.

My point is: the EU should no longer tolerate this kind of blackmail from a member. The EU and the UK should separate. Whatever the outcome of today's vote.

Enough is enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PAG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PAG

May have escaped your attention Ronin, but as of the last Scottish Parliament elections, the SNP no longer have an overall majority in their Parliament. Ironically, the Conservatives are now the second most rèpresented party. By inference, a call for a further Scottish referendum wouldn't even leave Edinburgh.

---

Do you live on the moon?

Scottish Parliament Elections 2016: SNP wins historic third term

---

Your link confirms the SNP, though they are the largest party, do not have an overall majority (which I think I stated).

Hopefully when the vote results come in tomorrow, they will show the numbers region by region. Could be a few surprises in store.

---

OK you were right about the majority but there seems little doubt Scotland will at least want to go its' own way should Brexit win.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warrior

My point is: the EU should no longer tolerate this kind of blackmail from a member.

---

You are right and they should be punished for it.
How about forcing right-side driving as a EU standard onto them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin

there seems little doubt Scotland will at least want to go its' own way should Brexit win.

---

Good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warrior

My point is: the EU should no longer tolerate this kind of blackmail from a member.

---

You are right and they should be punished for it.
How about forcing right-side driving as a EU standard onto them?

---

I said... how about kick them out :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Could this be the start of the Domino effect ? After Brexit, Would It Be Swexit And Grexit?

---

No Germexit !
We will have to stay till the bitter end and pay the mess they have left us.

Quote:

---

Updated June 21, 2016 12:26 p.m. ET

FRANKFURT—Germany’s top court ruled Tuesday that an unlimited bond-buying program created by the European Central Bank at the height of Europe’s debt crisis complies with German law, ending a yearslong legal challenge to a program credited with easing fears of a breakup of the currency zone.

The verdict is an important victory for ECB President Mario Draghi over his German critics at a time of renewed tensions between the ECB and its biggest shareholder, Germany.

---

Unlimited Bond buying means the dumb Guinea can spend all our money without asking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

^

Let me guess ? Your a civil servant :rolleyes:

---

I'm neither civil nor servile.

---

But maybe a bit senile ? :)

:smileylaughing:

The polling booths are now open. They close at 2200 BST (0400 Thai). Result expected circa midday (Thai) tomorrow.

Thanks for that info.

The leaders on both sides have been found guilty of multiple fabrications. (telling lies). As they are mostly university educated their research has been of an appalling standard.They may believe the electorate is stupid, but if I was marking their work, it would be returned covered in red ink with the comment 'bullshit. Do it again'.
Let's not forget these are the people running the bloody country. Shudder!

Quote:

---

The way I look at it, if we weren't in the EU and there was a vote tomorrow to join, what would you do?

---

Probably the most compelling argument for Brexit since this most disgraceful campaign began.