Thread: Price of war ...

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

Bunch of flag waving idiots.

Some naive person gets Patriotic fever and signs his or her life away all to protect some rich powerful assholes assets. I feel bad for the people that got drafted I don't feel bad for the volunteers. Get their legs blown off or their minds blown away instead of just getting killed, then when they get home their Country doesn't help them....fucking retarded.

Understand your sentiments but it's not exactly true:

Veterans Compensation Benefits Rate Tables - Effective 12/1/14 - Compensation

Much rather have my arms, legs, hearing, sight, etc. than any amount of compensation.

I'd say most of the people in the link I posted are all over 50 % disabled so they get an amount in the link tax free for life.

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

I feel bad for the people that got drafted I don't feel bad for the volunteers.

Idiotic statement. Putting your country and your fellow countrymen and the ideal of protecting them before your own private concerns, and doing it of your own volition shows maturity and courage.

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

Some naive person gets Patriotic fever and signs his or her life away all to protect some rich powerful assholes assets.

You obviously have never been around any military personal or a military base. Yes since we have been in these wars for so long many have joined due to patriotic fever. However the simple truth is that most have joined for economic reasons. They did it because there most likely are no jobs or opportunities in their communities. Basically they needed a job and the military offers that and the chance to go to college afterwards (the GI bill).

How many REAL Vietnam vets are alive today?

Back in 1988 veteran's groups estimated 9-12 million people were fraudulently claiming to be Vietnam vets. IMHO ... these people probably represent a large portion of those who are claiming to get no support from the government. And it works because it's the false picture painted by those who never served, those who got bad conduct/general discharges and many of those who served a single enlistment.

In addition to the compensation noted in my link above many of these severely disabled veterans are actually medically retired so they're drawing a check based on their rank and time in service in addition to their VA disability checks.

And even though there are a lot of complaints about VA health care it's better than nothing and in many cases pretty darned good depending on where you are.

US military and civilians are increasingly divided - U.S. - Stripes

"Some 49% of the 1.3 million active-duty service members in the U.S. are concentrated in just five states — California, Virginia, Texas, North Carolina and Georgia".

"Today's military enjoys a lifestyle that in many ways exceeds that of much of the rest of the country: regular pay raises and lavish reenlistment bonuses, free healthcare, subsidized housing and, after 20 years of service, generous retirement benefits unavailable to many other Americans".

"I am well-aware that many Americans, especially our elite classes, consider the military a bit like a guard dog," said Lt. Col. Remi M. Hajjar, a professor of behavioral sciences and leadership at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point.
"They are very thankful for our protection, but they probably wouldn't want to have it as a neighbor," he said. "And they certainly are not going to influence or inspire their own kids to join that pack of Rottweilers to protect America."

Perpetual war for perpetual peace [and profits].

Originally Posted by Looper

Putting your country and your fellow countrymen and the ideal of protecting them before your own private concerns, and doing it of your own volition shows maturity and courage.

Unlike murdering your own flesh and blood, to make your own life easier, huh ?

^different issue Dill. Please stay on topic in the thread.

I was agreeing with you

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

Bunch of flag waving idiots.

Some naive person gets Patriotic fever and signs his or her life away all to protect some rich powerful assholes assets. I feel bad for the people that got drafted I don't feel bad for the volunteers. Get their legs blown off or their minds blown away instead of just getting killed, then when they get home their Country doesn't help them....fucking retarded.

Really....? Do you feel that way about someone that made a wrong turn up a one way street and died in a head on crash...? Yours is the kind of heartless disrespect that they used to accuse people of making to Vets returning from Vietman. People make mistakes. When I was young and stupid I held some indifference to the soldiers returning from the war because our ideas were so diametrically opposed. No where near the vitriol that you spew, but in very short order, even young and stupid, I learned how shortsighted I was because in my first year out of high school (aka real-life) and in college I met a lot of them. I came to realize that many of these guys, although I may have disagreed with them greatly, were also victims of the propoganda that is incessently pumped into American heads. So yeah, they got played for a sucker by a country that gives lip service and yes, way too much sentimentality instead of practical, useful, basic humanitarian help.

Yes, too much sentimetality patriotic fever is a diversion, but a little may may be a start and turn a head or two around to see the problems that matter.

Originally Posted by MrG

Do you feel that way about someone that made a wrong turn up a one way street and died in a head on crash...?

I would feel bad for someone in an accident. Signing up for a military that you know will send you to a Country that doesn't want you there to kill people that are not your enemies for some heartless government that is just protecting it's assets is not an accident.

Honestly I am rather indifferent. I wouldn't treat a voluntary veteran any differently than anyone else. I certainly wouldn't look up to them as hero's. Hero's would be the people that refuse to fight in these stupid wars not sign up for them.

Originally Posted by Looper

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

I feel bad for the people that got drafted I don't feel bad for the volunteers.

Idiotic statement. Putting your country and your fellow countrymen and the ideal of protecting them before your own private concerns, and doing it of your own volition shows maturity and courage.

That is quite true. If some enemy was invading my homeland to destroy my way of life I would be right there with my fellow countrymen protecting my family and friends.

The US military are the invaders. They are protecting their homeland from their enemy. Signing up as a volunteer mercenary to invade some shitty country 1/2 way around the world to protect assets (oil, drugs, land, etc) is not courageous or mature. To me it shows lack of morals and a disregard for human life.

Originally Posted by bsnub

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

Some naive person gets Patriotic fever and signs his or her life away all to protect some rich powerful assholes assets.

You obviously have never been around any military personal or a military base. Yes since we have been in these wars for so long many have joined due to patriotic fever. However the simple truth is that most have joined for economic reasons. They did it because there most likely are no jobs or opportunities in their communities. Basically they needed a job and the military offers that and the chance to go to college afterwards (the GI bill).

Nope have not been around military bases, thankfully. Have some ex military friends though. After hearing some of their tales I am glad I never "volunteered".

Is killing other humans simply because you lack the skills to get a decent paying job make any sense? I know the military relies on that tactic to get new recruits. Seems there is never a shortage of high school dropouts to fuel our vast and powerful empire.

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

Originally Posted by MrG

Do you feel that way about someone that made a wrong turn up a one way street and died in a head on crash...?

I would feel bad for someone in an accident. Signing up for a military that you know will send you to a Country that doesn't want you there to kill people that are not your enemies for some heartless government that is just protecting it's assets is not an accident.

Honestly I am rather indifferent. I wouldn't treat a voluntary veteran any differently than anyone else. I certainly wouldn't look up to them as hero's. Hero's would be the people that refuse to fight in these stupid wars not sign up for them.

I never mentioned heroes or heroism. I don't know why they're on your mind.

I did mention brainwashing as a reason many people go off and "...kill innocent people for a heartless government that's just protecting its assets", but I guess that's too much for you to address. At least with anything but more tough talking bilge.

I was talking flesh and blood, not ideological rants that were cliche when they were spewed at all those anti-war rallies I used to go to back in 1967. Grow up, or at least read some new books.

Never mind.

Originally Posted by MrG

Originally Posted by beazalbob69

Originally Posted by MrG

Do you feel that way about someone that made a wrong turn up a one way street and died in a head on crash...?

I would feel bad for someone in an accident. Signing up for a military that you know will send you to a Country that doesn't want you there to kill people that are not your enemies for some heartless government that is just protecting it's assets is not an accident.

Honestly I am rather indifferent. I wouldn't treat a voluntary veteran any differently than anyone else. I certainly wouldn't look up to them as hero's. Hero's would be the people that refuse to fight in these stupid wars not sign up for them.

I never mentioned heroes or heroism. I don't know why they're on your mind.

I did mention brainwashing as a reason many people go off and "...kill innocent people for a heartless government that's just protecting its assets", but I guess that's too much for you to address. At least with anything but more tough talking bilge.

I was talking flesh and blood, not ideological rants that were cliche when they were spewed at all those anti-war rallies I used to go to back in 1967. Grow up, or at least read some new books.

Never mind.

Maybe we are missing each others points? I am too young for the Vietnam War. I came of age during the 1st Gulf War. I respect the Vietnam Vets. Most were forced to do the Governments bidding. Was not by choice for many. They were treated horribly when they returned, if they returned, or at the very least ignored.

When I was watching the 1st Gulf war on the news I was thinking to myself "Why would any sane person sign up for this. We are not fighting for our freedom we are fighting for oil." Nobody forced these people to join the military they went because they wanted to. If they couldn't see the culture of continuous war brainwashing that we have all been exposed to there was nothing I could do to make them see it.

^ Excellent post and spot on.

Just out of interest the companies that profit the most from these wars do they contribute to the Vets in any way or form.?

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

Just out of interest the companies that profit the most from these wars do they contribute to the Vets in any way or form.?

Most do via hiring vets who have knowlege of their products. Not necessarily out of kindness but more because these vets need less training. A win/win for the employer and employee.

Home | Costs of War

$2.2 trillion for medical and disability costs.
$4.4 trillion for costs of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
6.7 million war refugees.
350,000 people dead.

Right so no fishing trips or days out for the disabled vets,no contribution to there welfare.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

Just out of interest the companies that profit the most from these wars do they contribute to the Vets in any way or form.?

Most do via hiring vets who have knowlege of their products. Not necessarily out of kindness but more because these vets need less training. A win/win for the employer and employee.

Blackwater Security Services or Xe today is a good example.

"One-stop shopping source for world class services in the fields of security, stability, aviation, training and logistics"

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Blackwater Security Services or Xe today is a good example.

Actually a very small number compared to defense equipment manufacturers. Hire ex military equipment techs is what most companies prefer. Knowlege of the manufacturer's equipment is most desireable. Defense industries worldwide are full of ex military folks. Training courtesy of Uncle Sam.