Thread: Price of war ...

Originally Posted by Looper

Originally Posted by Norton

All due to a flaw in our species. Conquer or be conquered.

It is not a flaw. It is an evolutionary design.

You may want to re-consider the perfection of the design.

The Most Unfortunate Design Flaws in the Human Body
Sometimes evolution is stupid, and the human body is proof. Here are the most problematic physical and behavioral "scars of evolution" we humans have to deal with.
snip
Not only did evolution create a species that's "good enough," it also produced some distinctly negative traits. Back in 1951, the biologist Wilton Krogman referred to these as the "scars of human evolution."

The piece lists several physical characteristics that have lost their evolutionary advantage. Most cogent to this thread is this one.

Tribalism
Humans have a kind of ingrained fear or distrust of the "out-group." It's a previously adaptive trait that binds small groups of individuals together and prevents them from wandering off or joining other groups. But it also leads to ethnocentrism and divisions between groups. Studies show that oxytocin, while strengthening feelings of trust between individuals, increases fear of "the other." This characteristic was obviously important back when we lived in family clans or tribal arrangements, but today it leads to all sorts of social problems, including racism, prejudice, and our inability to empathize with people we don't immediately know.

In the age of the atom, survival "instinct" over reason may prove to be counter-productive.

Just sayin'.

Absolutely agree MrG.

Part of the process of social maturation of the human species in the age of globalisation is using our rational intellect to overcome our instinctive fear and distrust of the 'outsider' and to increase our sphere of inclusion regarding whom we regard as worthy of treatment as an equal and a full member of the community.

To overcome the instinct, however, it helps if we first try to understand its evolutionary basis.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Originally Posted by Horatio Hornblower

The number of guys I've had tell me there SAS/SBS Seals Marines FFL I could write a book on it.

When you ask them there unit number, they quickly disappear.

I read something the other day that went along the lines of about 10-12 million people in the USA claim to be Vietnam veterans yet there are supposedly only about 3-5 million still alive that could have served in that war.

At least a 1/2 million of those claiming folk stand along or near the highway off/ on ramps in America during rush hours holding a sign proclaiming their veteran status along with a small container for collecting bills and change from commuters sitting in their vehicles.
Marketing 102 for pan-handlers.

^ How can any data be collected that is valid that claims 10-12 million are claiming to be VN vets?

Is this in claims for funds and services? PTSD? Agent Orange, etc.?

For panhandling, not figure can be obtained.

Originally Posted by Black Heart

^ How can any data be collected that is valid that claims 10-12 million are claiming to be VN vets?

Is this in claims for funds and services? PTSD? Agent Orange, etc.?

For panhandling, not figure can be obtained.

Job applications, welfare assistance applications, housing assistance applications ... Lot of ways but I'm not sure how accurate. And actually the article I read I said only 2-3 million actually served in combat ... Everybody else were REMFers. A term I learned from you ... :-)

The price of war is escalating even more than the price of education. Both are becoming increasingly privatised, too.

Looking at iraq ghan, ukraine, etc, it seems apparent to me that the price of modern war rarely justifies the invariably spruiked benefits. Those that repetitively try to sell war should be viewed with the deepest suspicion.

Factbox: What does Lockheed's F-35 fighter jet really cost? | Reuters

COST OF THE OVERALL PROGRAM

The most recent U.S. Defense Department estimates put the current cost of developing, testing and building the F-35 multi-role fighter jet at $396 billion, a forecast that assumes U.S. purchases of 2,443 production jets, on top of 14 test planes.

Retrofits of existing planes to address problems found in flight testing are expected to total $1.7 billion over the first 10 production batches, according to the most recent report by the congressional Government Accountability Office (GAO).

The cost of operating and sustaining the new planes is estimated to reach $1.1 trillion, assuming that they will be used for 50 years, according to the most recent Pentagon data provided to Congress.

USS Gerald Ford: America chistens $13bn super aircraft carrier | Daily Mail Online

"The Navy also plans to buy another three such carriers, at a cost of $43 billion, to complete its fleet.
But the project to build the most advanced aircraft carrier every made has come at a high price, with costs overrunning to the tune of nearly $3billion and major delays".

United States Department of Veterans Affairs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The United States Department of Veterans Affairs (VA or DVA) is a government-run military veteran benefit system with Cabinet-level status.

With a total 2009 budget of about $87.6 billion, the VA employs nearly 280,000 people at hundreds of Veterans Affairs medical facilities, clinics, and benefits offices and is responsible for administering programs of veterans’ benefits for veterans, their families, and survivors. In 2012, the proposed budget for Veterans Affairs was $132 billion.[1] The VA 2014 budget request for 2014 was $152.7 billion. This included $66.5 billion in discretionary resources and $86.1 billion in mandatory funding. The discretionary budget request represented an increase of $2.7 billion, or 4.3 percent, over the 2013 enacted level

United States Department of Defense - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Department of Defense spending in 2010 was 4.8% of GDP and accounted for approximately 45% of budgeted global military spending – more than the next 17 largest militaries combined.[32][33]

The Department of Defense accounts for the majority of federal discretionary spending. In FY 2010 the Department of Defense budgeted spending accounted for 21% of the U.S. Federal Budget, and 53% of federal discretionary spending, which represents funds not accounted for by pre-existing obligations.[34] However, this does not include many military-related items that are outside of the Defense Department budget, such as nuclear weapons research, maintenance, cleanup, and production, which is in the Department of Energy budget, Veterans Affairs, the Treasury Department's payments in pensions to military retirees and widows and their families, interest on debt incurred in past wars, or State Department financing of foreign arms sales and militarily-related development assistance. Neither does it include defense spending that is not military in nature, such as the Department of Homeland Security, counter-terrorism spending by the FBI, and intelligence-gathering spending by NASA.

In the 2010 United States federal budget, the Department of Defense was allocated a base budget of $533.7 billion, with a further $75.5 billion adjustment in respect of 2009, and $130 billion for overseas contingencies.[35] The subsequent 2010 Department of Defense Financial Report shows the total budgetary resources for fiscal year 2010 were $1.2 trillion.[36] Of these resources, $1.1 trillion were obligated and $994 billion were disbursed, with the remaining resources relating to multi-year modernization projects requiring additional time to procure.[36] After over a decade of non-compliance, Congress has established a deadline of Fiscal year 2017 for the Department of Defense to achieve audit readiness.[37]

The current[when?] allocation for the Department of Defense the highest level of budgetary resources among all Federal agencies, and this amounts to more than one-half of the annual Federal discretionary budget.

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Originally Posted by Black Heart

^ How can any data be collected that is valid that claims 10-12 million are claiming to be VN vets?

Is this in claims for funds and services? PTSD? Agent Orange, etc.?

For panhandling, not figure can be obtained.

Job applications, welfare assistance applications, housing assistance applications ... Lot of ways but I'm not sure how accurate. And actually the article I read I said only 2-3 million actually served in combat ... Everybody else were REMFers. A term I learned from you ... :-)

Cheers.

I believe the total that served over there was 2.9 to 3.1 million (don't know why the differing numbers). Actually in combat was less than that.

I knew to LRRP guys. Very interesting and also something I could not do.

^^ post #62,

Yes, when they want to downsize, they do these things. Large bureacracies can be brutal.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

it's the Army that made them this way

It is the Country that made the Army this way. Just obscelescent cannon fodder now, until 'your country needs you again', of course.