Thread: What Will It Take To Get Rid Of ISIS?

As we know, the Japs had given up and were brokering for peace before the 2nd A bomb - there was no need for it. End of.

I also think the first A bomb was terrible too, as was the carpet bombing of Dresden.

I'm not too fond of the blitz or Japanese/German concentration camps and genetic experiments, enforced slavery/prostitution in places such as Nanjing.

War is terrible, we know that, so I wonder why our societies keep letting our corrupt politicians and power mongers and corporations and war machines produce endless wars.

Why can't people see how the US/UK have funded all the saudiesque wahabi terrorist groups around the world since we first decided to work with these scumbags for oil money back in the 1930s. The House of Saud and their wahabi extremist partners are the worst of the worst, utter scum, and we have given them their power and supported their ideals all for oil profits. Insanity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...n_Saudi_Arabia

ISIS are of our making. That second A bomb would have been much better used on Riyadh, imho.

Off topic.
My last word in this thread on the unjust use of the A bomb in Japan.

INSTITUTE FOR HISTORICAL REVIEW
Was Hiroshima Necessary?
Why the Atomic Bombings Could Have Been Avoided
By Mark Weber

snip

A Beaten Country

Apart from the moral questions involved, were the atomic bombings militarily necessary? By any rational yardstick, they were not. Japan already had been defeated militarily by June 1945. Almost nothing was left of the once mighty Imperial Navy, and Japan's air force had been all but totally destroyed. Against only token opposition, American war planes ranged at will over the country, and US bombers rained down devastation on her cities, steadily reducing them to rubble.

Snip

Even before the Hiroshima attack, American air force General Curtis LeMay boasted that American bombers were "driving them [Japanese] back to the stone age." Henry H. ("Hap") Arnold, commanding General of the Army air forces, declared in his 1949 memoirs: "It always appeared to us, atomic bomb or no atomic bomb, the Japanese were already on the verge of collapse." This was confirmed by former Japanese prime minister Fumimaro Konoye, who said: "Fundamentally, the thing that brought about the determination to make peace was the prolonged bombing by the B-29s."


Japan Seeks Peace

snip

American officials, having long since broken Japan's secret codes, knew from intercepted messages that the country's leaders were seeking to end the war on terms as favorable as possible. Details of these efforts were known from decoded secret communications between the Foreign Ministry in Tokyo and Japanese diplomats abroad.

Snip

In mid-April [1945] the [US] Joint Intelligence Committee reported that Japanese leaders were looking for a way to modify the surrender terms to end the war. The State Department was convinced the Emperor was actively seeking a way to stop the fighting.

A Secret Memorandum

It was only after the war that the American public learned about Japan's efforts to bring the conflict to an end. Chicago Tribune reporter Walter Trohan, for example, was obliged by wartime censorship to withhold for seven months one of the most important stories of the war.

In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times-Herald, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86 Journal, pp. 508-512.)

This memo showed that the Japanese were offering surrender terms virtually identical to the ones ultimately accepted by the Americans at the formal surrender ceremony on September 2 -- that is, complete surrender of everything but the person of the Emperor.

snip

The authenticity of the Trohan article was never challenged by the White House or the State Department, and for very good reason. After General MacArthur returned from Korea in 1951, his neighbor in the Waldorf Towers, former President Herbert Hoover, took the Trohan article to General MacArthur and the latter confirmed its accuracy in every detail and without qualification.


Peace Overtures

In April and May 1945, Japan made three attempts through neutral Sweden and Portugal to bring the war to a peaceful end. On April 7, acting Foreign Minister Mamoru Shigemitsu met with Swedish ambassador Widon Bagge in Tokyo, asking him "to ascertain what peace terms the United States and Britain had in mind."
Snip
Similar Japanese peace signals through Portugal, on May 7, and again through Sweden, on the 10th, proved similarly fruitless.

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By early July the US had intercepted messages from Togo to the Japanese ambassador in Moscow, Naotake Sato, showing that the Emperor himself was taking a personal hand in the peace effort, and had directed that the Soviet Union be asked to help end the war.

Snip

Authoritative Voices of Dissent

American leaders who were in a position to know the facts did not believe, either at the time or later, that the atomic bombings were needed to end the war.

When he was informed in mid-July 1945 by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson of the decision to use the atomic bomb, General Dwight Eisenhower was deeply troubled. He disclosed his strong reservations about using the new weapon in his 1963 memoir, The White House Years: Mandate for Change, 1953-1956 (pp. 312-313):

During his [Stimson's] recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of "face."

snip

General Douglas MacArthur, Commander of US Army forces in the Pacific, stated on numerous occasions before his death that the atomic bomb was completely unnecessary from a military point of view: "My staff was unanimous in believing that Japan was on the point of collapse and surrender."

General Curtis LeMay, who had pioneered precision bombing of Germany and Japan (and who later headed the Strategic Air Command and served as Air Force chief of staff), put it most succinctly: "The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war."

Lots more at:
Was Hiroshima Necessary?

Whether it was necessary or not that is not the point the point is it saved lives ,as the article's in my post 1729 plainly says , and even after they dropped the second bomb at Nagasaki many of the generals refused to surrender and even tried to stage a coup and steal the Emperors surrender recording , its all there in my post 1734 , and its not really off topic cos there was no one more brave or fanatical than the Japs and yet they was made to surrender , whilst in no way am I suggest a nuclear war , there must be another way like boots en masse on the ground but as yet no Western leader or even the Ruskies are prepared to have possibly thousands of their own citizens being sent home in body bags , and getting back to japan as far as surrender goes you only have to read the article in my post 1731 to realise this was not in their plans at all .

Originally Posted by piwanoi

Whether this is true or not this would be a bigger deterrent than any thing seen thus far ,but it will not happen as these murdering bastards have "RIGHTS" don't they

Kin hell Rick ,El Trumpo musta read my post Donald Trump cites story of general who dipped bullets in pigs' blood to deter Muslims - CNNPolitics.com

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

I personally feel we do need to come up with something a little more cultural than dropping bombs and lazer guided missles.

Stand off weapons, bombs and missiles are used because if "ground forces" were used it would involve sustaining casualties. As we all know having your own brothers killed is not how the crusader coalition works, or what their electorate would stomach or been sold on.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

I witnessed one in Saudi Arabia and was pushed to the front to get a good view. It made me think twice.

Have you ever been to a hanging or a lethal injection killing? Wouldn't you have similar concerns?

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Too bad none of the coalition governments can seem to do the same.

Originally Posted by Neverna

The coalition governments aren't doing it because it's a stupid, pointless idea and, more importantly, it won't fucking work.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

Nothing has worked so far, why not try something different?

You may want to investigate the claims of the P4+1 coalition. They do seem to be retaking territory, clearing out terrorists from cities etc. Even starting to feed and medicate the trapped citizens, allegedly.

Originally Posted by Neverna

Outside powers fighting proxy wars, vested interests,

The P4+1 powers have plenty of skin in the game.

Originally Posted by piwanoi

then we came in and started playing it by the RULES, now look at both of them today, a never ending blood bath .

The Libyan government has told the crusader coalition to stop creating war inside Libya, not that the crusader coalition will take any heed of a government they installed. The Germans predict 100,000s of African will make it to Europe this year.