Thread: How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

Originally Posted by Looper

Your attempt to portray Russia's role as a passive onlooker is laughable.

Even if the Ukraine government was overturned in a coup that does not justify very powerful neighbours carving the nation up like roast because they see the opportunity to grab pieces of land they would like to commandeer.

Coups are occasionally part of the political landscape even in the 21st century.

Annexation of territory is not part of the landscape. It is not an acceptable part of international relations any more and any country that engages in such antics should be shunned and punished.

There is no way to legally transfer ownership of a territory without the agreement of the nation losing the territory.

It's just so much gobbeldygook, you talk absolute nonsense.

Coups are ok, but referendums are illegitmate..?? What the fuck are you on?

And you keep wittering on like there's some kind of global benchmark for conducting hostilities that Russia has breached, yet you refuse to consider the situation relative to global events.. you want it all your way.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I wonder what answer they'd get if they asked the roughly three million Ukrainians forced to flee.

Any link?

To be more precise, 2.6 million.

Strangely, it appears none of them were polled as to their desire to be under a Russian or Ukrainian government.

Wild guesses at their replies if asked?

https://www.refugeesinternational.org/blog/ukriane-aid

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I wonder what answer they'd get if they asked the roughly three million Ukrainians forced to flee.

Any link?

To be more precise, 2.6 million.

Strangely, it appears none of them were polled as to their desire to be under a Russian or Ukrainian government.

Wild guesses at their replies if asked?

https://www.refugeesinternational.org/blog/ukriane-aid

Your link is about Eastern Ukraine where Poroshenko bombs his own Ukraine people.
It has nothing to do with peaceful Crimea.
(in fact, Crimea blocked by Poroshenko from all supplies - sanctions - something what he learns from his sponsors - therefore Putin had to establish an air-bridge, similarly as it was once organized for West Berlin)

Population of Crimea Republic:
2017: 1,912,168
2014: 1,889,400 (Oct.)

Not easy neighbourhood:



Putin would be a self-murderer allowing there the US Base be built:

Originally Posted by Neo

Coups are ok, but referendums are illegitmate..?? What the fuck are you on?

Your and sabang's version of events is a whitewash of Russia's attempts to prevent Ukraine moving towards a closer relationship with Europe.

This turning towards Europe was inevitable once Ukraine escaped from Soviet control. Countries in Ukraine's position will inevitably naturally gravitate towards western alliance opportunities after the scourge of soviet communism.

The corrupt dealings between the Ukrainian president and Russia, including the president backing out of the Ukraine-Europe association agreements was the prime motivation for the the Ukrainian revolution in 2014. The US may have encouraged the revolution (not unreasonable given the backdrop of the president betraying his people no doubt driven by Russian corruption of the political process that had led to closer European ties) but there is no way that they instigated or controlled it.

That version of events is a fiction that Putin apologists cling to as they cheerlead anything that looks like opposition to US influence.

To use that fiction as justification for the outrageous act of annexation of land that breaks all modern rules of international engagement and risks undoing all the progress made based on the lessons of the 20th century haemoclysm is a cynical betrayal of the millions who died to make this century a safer one than the last.

Originally Posted by Looper

annexation of land that breaks all modern rules of international engagement

there you go again.. it's just cloud lala land... you keep basing your argument on Russia breaking 'modern rules of international engagement'

show us where these rules exist

Originally Posted by Looper

Your and sabang's version of events is a whitewash of Russia's attempts to prevent Ukraine moving towards a closer relationship with Europe.

How does Russia taking Crimea prevent Ukraine having a closer relationship with Europe.??

Ukraine shares a border with four European countries.

Originally Posted by Neo

How does Russia taking Crimea prevent Ukraine having a closer relationship with Europe.??

That is not what I said.

Ukraine was on a path to closer ties with Europe.

Russia tried to corrupt that process and succeeded in getting the Ukraine president to back out of the Ukraine-Euro association aggreement.

This went against the wishes of the Ukrainian people and resulted in unrest and a coup. The US may have encouraged the coup this but the Russian attempts to derail the Ukraine-Euro association were the root cause.

When the unrest resulted in the overthrow of the corrupted regime in Ukraine Putin spat the dummy as he saw his influence draining.

Out of sheer frustration he then decide to do a quick smash and grab on his way out by annexing Crimea - not caring that this undoes all the progress we have made over the past century in securing land borders from this type of outdated nonsense.

You're completely delusional. You think Putin took Crimea as revenge for losing influence in Ukraine?

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I wonder what answer they'd get if they asked the roughly three million Ukrainians forced to flee.

Any link?

To be more precise, 2.6 million.

Strangely, it appears none of them were polled as to their desire to be under a Russian or Ukrainian government.

Wild guesses at their replies if asked?

https://www.refugeesinternational.org/blog/ukriane-aid

Your link is about Eastern Ukraine where Poroshenko bombs his own Ukraine people.
It has nothing to do with peaceful Crimea.
(in fact, Crimea blocked by Poroshenko from all supplies - sanctions - something what he learns from his sponsors - therefore Putin had to establish an air-bridge, similarly as it was once organized for West Berlin)

Crimea *is* Eastern Ukraine you fucking dimwit.

http://www.securitycouncilreport.org...res_68_262.pdf

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Crimea *is* Eastern Ukraine you fucking dimwit.

Not even close harry.. Crimea is in the south.
The displacement of the 2.6 million you stated is due to the war in Donbass and has nothing to do with Crimea.



Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) geographic division of Ukraine used in their polls.


Several Oblasts can be referred to as "Eastern Ukraine":
Red - always included
Orange - sometimes included

you fucking dimwit

Originally Posted by Neo

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Crimea *is* Eastern Ukraine you fucking dimwit.

Not even close harry.. Crimea is in the south.
The displacement of the 2.6 million you stated is due to the war in Donbass and has nothing to do with Crimea.



Kiev International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) geographic division of Ukraine used in their polls.


Several Oblasts can be referred to as "Eastern Ukraine":
Red - always included
Orange - sometimes included

you fucking dimwit

Interesting attempt to conflate voting districts with basic fucking geography.

Note if you will:

the displacement of more than three million in Ukraine’s east

However, let's not quibble over terminology so you can avoid answering my question:

What would displaced Ukrainians in Crimea have to say about Vlad's invasion?

"Yes, we couldn't fucking wait"?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Interesting attempt to conflate voting districts with basic fucking geography.

They are voting districts because voting is held in constituencies generally demarcated by historical boundaries.. as is common practice the world over, or are you trying to tell us that they decided to hold votes in those areas and then declare them regions after..

The fact that the Eastern Region is in the east of the country may also be a bit of a giveaway, just as looking on a map you will find Crimea in the south which if you are holding the map the right way round is usually down toward the bottom.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

However, let's not quibble over terminology so you can avoid answering my question:

You mean lets move the goal posts to avoid the fact that you're talking out your arse.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

What would displaced Ukrainians in Crimea have to say about Vlad's invasion?

Vlad's invasion of Crimea..? Displaced Ukrainians..? Are you trying to be deliberately stupid like Looper?

Originally Posted by Neo

Vlad's invasion of Crimea..? Displaced Ukrainians..? Are you trying to be deliberately stupid like Looper?

Yes, Vlad's invasion of Crimea.

If you think that is stupid, perhaps you should actually read the fucking I link I posted in which the UN recognise The Ukraine's sovereign borders.

Here it is again:

http://www.securitycouncilreport.org...res_68_262.pdf

It's why the sanctions were imposed.

Posting puff pieces written by Russia supporters is never going to negate that fact.

Originally Posted by Looper

Ukraine was on a path to closer ties with Europe.

Russia tried to corrupt that process and succeeded in getting the Ukraine president to back out of the Ukraine-Euro association aggreement. This went against the wishes of the Ukrainian people and resulted in unrest and a coup.

You should inform yourself why "the Ukraine president to back out of the Ukraine-Euro association aggreement." At the last minute the EU (on an advice of a higher power) changed their commitment.

And that "This went against the wishes of the Ukrainian people and resulted in unrest and a coup."???

Surely the $5B that the Nuland brought in had to result in an unrest. Many of the "unrested Ukraine people" spoke a languages that the real Ukrainers did not understand

Quebec holds a Referendum to secede from Canada- kosher.
Scotland holds a Referendum to secede from UK- kosher.
But if Crimea does, strictly non-kosher. The double standards are obvious.

Canada and the UK approved those referendums and agreed to abide by the outcomes.

Ukraine was not even asked if it approved.

The process was sponsored by a large bullying neighbour which wanted to annex the territory.

There is no shred of comparison of legitimacy.

Originally Posted by sabang

Quebec holds a Referendum to secede from Canada- kosher.
Scotland holds a Referendum to secede from UK- kosher.
But if Crimea does, strictly non-kosher. The double standards are obvious.

There are no double standards except in your gnat like mind.

The Quebec Referendum was moot, because there was nothing in the constitution that allowed it, although Canada did have plans ready to discuss Quebec's secession had they won by a significant margin.

The Scottish referendum was done with full consent of the British Parliament with the appropriate constitutional amendments.

Crimea was invaded by Russia and then had one of those Vlad-style votes, and we all know they're a pile of shit.

It was illegal under Ukrainian law and it is isn't internationally recognised by anyone but Vlad and his cronies.

In other words, it was a fucking dog and pony show.

Originally Posted by Looper

Ukraine was not even asked if it approved.

Of the Coup? Well you never are, are you. Crimea overwhelmingly approved.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by Looper

Do you think it is OK to take land of neighbouring countries because you like the look of it and you have the military might to get away with it?

ameristani and it's vassals global SOP. Rent a few throat slitting "good terrorists" , train, fund, do a nelson when required, arm, advise, manage, direct, transport, feed, water ........

Evidence of THE LORD doing similar?

Originally Posted by Looper

When is the last time a G20 nation or equivalent engaged in any nonsense like this?

Today, yesterday, the day before yesterday, last week, last month, last year, last decade, last century ............... Iran, Iraq, Syria, Sudan, Yemen, Libya, Venezuela, Afghanistan ..........

So which dictator annexed part of one of these and claimed it as their own sovereign territory again?

harry and looper getting there arses handed to them... if it's not manufactured consent they're way out of their comfort zone...

Just a reminder as to how dangerous vlad the dictator is:

AMSTERDAM, July 17 (Xinhua) -- A Dutch national monument commemorating victims who died three years ago in the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 is set for a formal opening here on Monday.



The National Monument MH17 is situated in the park of Vijfhuizen near Amsterdam's Schiphol airport, from where flight MH17 took off en route to Kuala Lumpur on July 17, 2014.
A total of 298 trees have been planted in the shape of a green ribbon, with each of the trees bearing names of the victims who died on board the flight.
Families of the victims will gather on Monday to unveil the memorial and remember their loved ones, according to media reports.
Dutch King Willem-Alexander and Queen Maxima will join government and international officials at a solemn ceremony to dedicate the memorial, said the AFP.
The names of all the 298 passengers and crew killed in the disaster will be read out by their families, and local children will lay flowers, the AFP added.
While most of the victims were Dutch, passengers on the plane also included Australians, Britons, Malaysians and Indonesians, among others.
"Whoever did it should be brought to justice. That's the only story I can share with anyone," Evert van Zijtveld, a bereaved Dutch father who lost his two teenage children in the tragedy, told local media on Thursday ahead of the third anniversary of the disaster.
In March, relatives of the victims planted the trees which symbolize "hope" and "future" in many cultures, according to the monument's official website.
"We not only want to honor the MH17 victims, but also want to create a place where everyone can keep their memories of the 298 passengers alive. Every victim's life will live on metaphorically through these memorial trees," said the website.
The ribbon will be surrounded by a ring of sunflowers, which blossom during the month of July. The sunflowers also refer to the sunflower fields in eastern Ukraine where some parts of the plane wreckage were found, the website added.
Though no suspects have been arrested, some progress is being made in the investigation.
In September 2016, a report published by the Dutch-led Joint Investigation Team concluded that the plane was shot down by a Russian-made Buk missile fired from a region in eastern Ukraine, controlled by independence-seeking insurgents.
Moscow and the rebel leadership in eastern Ukraine have denied the allegation, saying the plane was shot by a missile from the territory controlled by Ukrainian government troops.

National monument to open in Amsterdam for MH17 victims on 3rd anniversary - Xinhua | English.news.cn