Thread: How dangerous is Vladimir Putin?

Illegally taking land off another country against its will with threat of military state sponsored war a is piece of anachronistic nonsense in this day and age.

It does not matter how you dress it up.

If it was all about the 'Russian people' then they could have been offered Russian passports and repatriation which would have avoided breaking a well established norm regarding respect for national borders.

But it wasn't as you all well know. It was a cheap and shabby land grab.

This norm of respecting national borders did not used to be the case. It has been hard won over the last century and is part of the civilising process which marks the progress of the species in its path to reduce war.

Putin has undone scores of decades of solid progress with this traitorous betrayal of the the new rules of engagement.

Do any of the Putin cheerleaders on the thread think that Ukraine deserves any compensation or reparations for having their land taken away without any consultation?

Unbelievable that you still refuse to accept the truth.

Tell us how the rules of engagement applied to the bombing of civilians with napalm in Vietnam.

Tell us how invading Granada complied with rules of engagement.

Tell us how they applied to invading Iraq on a lie.

Tell us how they applied to the destruction of Libya on another lie, which has caused the refugee crisis in Europe.

Tell us how supplying weapons to rebel groups attempting to take over the Syrian government complies with rules of engagement.

But hay Trump is now ending the (not so) secret CIA supplying of weapons to the Syrian rebels many of which were going directly to ISIS.

.cbsnews.com/news/report-trump-ending-secret-cia-program-to-arm-syrian-rebels/

This is really a waste of time for anyone who believes the crap you have been writing is a hopeless case, heck someone who believes that shooting down an unmanned drone is air to air combat is beyond saving.

I have better things to do, have a nice time playing with your war toys, over and out.

Originally Posted by Looper

Ukraine deserves any compensation or reparations for having their land taken away without any consultation?

Cannot find a link how much Kosovo paid to Serbia...
Or was it made into participation of the then US State Sec (what was her name?) in the telecom company?
Or the lucrative state business with the human organs?

Why the Crimea people did not negotiate with the new (legitimate?) Ukraine parliament?
Pretty peacefully...
https://www.theguardian.com/artandde...-frank-lampard

VIDEO: Massive Fist Fight Breaks Out In Ukraine?s Parliament ? Sick Chirpse

Originally Posted by Klondyke

Originally Posted by Looper

Ukraine deserves any compensation or reparations for having their land taken away without any consultation?

Cannot find a link how much Kosovo paid to Serbia...

Can't find a link to The Ukraine committing genocide in Crimea either.

Originally Posted by birding

Tell us how the rules of engagement applied to the bombing of civilians with napalm in Vietnam.

Tell us how invading Granada complied with rules of engagement.

Tell us how they applied to invading Iraq on a lie.

Tell us how they applied to the destruction of Libya on another lie, which has caused the refugee crisis in Europe.

Tell us how supplying weapons to rebel groups attempting to take over the Syrian government complies with rules of engagement.

Is your argument that the U.S. is/has been a bit shit so that justifies Putin's actions?

Because that's what it looks like you're trying to say. And that's a bit shit.

Originally Posted by fred flintstone

People can argue whether the Ukraine should be independent or Russian. But Putin's method of handling the situation is out of line. It's nothing but a land grab pulled off by a tyrant.

Go and tell it to the Crimea people...
(and ask them if they rather want to be liberated by US Army?)

What’s life really like in Crimea 3 years after reunion with Russia

‘Ukraine spat on us for 20 years’
https://www.rbth.com/politics_and_so...-russia_722136

Even USA Today:
Crimeans back Russian takeover: If they try to take it back, ‘I will fight’
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ssia/95419178/

(But no need to believe what is written. Some MSM know surely better...)

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Is your argument that the U.S. is/has been a bit shit so that justifies Putin's actions?

Yes that is basically their argument.

Originally Posted by fred flintstone

Putin's the scariest person in the world these days...He's got the resources of a super power at his hand, there's no person or organization to tell him 'no' or keep him in check And he's a hardened sociopath.

This is true and is the scariest part.

Putin felt he was being outmanoeuvred by possible rumours of US covert political shenanigans in Ukraine so he did what all 3-year-olds do and threw his toys out of the pram and decided to use it as an excuse to engage in a blatant military backed land grab.

This is a dangerous escalation, over-reaction and attack on the values of 21st century international diplomacy.

He doesn't care that by reverting to 19th century imperial land-grabbing he is undoing decades of progress in establishing rules about international engagement.

These rules were established the hard way and underwritten with scores of millions of lives in WWI and again in WWII

But he is tantrum throwing 3 year old so he doesn't care.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

What’s life really like in Crimea 3 years after reunion with Russia

‘Ukraine spat on us for 20 years’
https://www.rbth.com/politics_and_so...-russia_722136

Even USA Today:
Crimeans back Russian takeover: If they try to take it back, ‘I will fight’
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ssia/95419178/

(But no need to believe what is written. Some MSM know surely better...)

I wonder what answer they'd get if they asked the roughly three million Ukrainians forced to flee.

You thick twat.

Originally Posted by Looper

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Is your argument that the U.S. is/has been a bit shit so that justifies Putin's actions?

Yes that is basically their argument.

Originally Posted by fred flintstone

Putin's the scariest person in the world these days...He's got the resources of a super power at his hand, there's no person or organization to tell him 'no' or keep him in check And he's a hardened sociopath.

This is true and is the scariest part.

The most worrying part is that it is barely even a rational move in terms of strategy, since the offence caused to the rest of the world will incur significant costs in the long game.

The upending of international relational norms was basically done mainly out of sheer bad temper and fear of being being outmanoeuvred politically in the Ukraine by the US.

The fact that a semi-super-power despot is willing to go to such strategically irrational extremes over something so petty shows how weak in character Putin really is under his hard-ball demeanour.

Originally Posted by Looper

fear of being being outmanoeuvred politically in the Ukraine by the US

Why should the US be able to outmaneuver Russia in Ukraine?

Well I thought that was part of the explanation and justification favoured by the putin-tards for Vladimir's annexation nonsense?

(US politcal meddling in Ukraine - boo hoo - cry me a river)

That's really a good discussion with some who claims:

No matter that one superpower stirs shit around the world lawlessly and brutally, that's a game. All others are to behave exactly fair, no excuse that nobody get harmed.

("All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others")

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I wonder what answer they'd get if they asked the roughly three million Ukrainians forced to flee.

Any link?

Originally Posted by Klondyke

one superpower stirs shit around the world lawlessly and brutally

There is a world of difference between pulling strings to try and influence political outcomes and brazenly annexing land because you have got the military might and you are in bad temper about being outmanoeuvred.

One is not very good but in keeping with the kind of shenanigans to be expected in the 21st century.

The other is dangerous, unbalanced and destructive of the hard won progress that the human race is slowly making decade by decade in reducing war.

Originally Posted by Looper

the offence caused to the rest of the world will incur significant costs in the long game

HQ of the Black Sea Fleet. Two significant Russian airbases.
Russian speaking, ethnically Russian population, main industries Russian military and Russian tourism.
No loopy, I really do not think so. Is the causeway open yet?

Originally Posted by Looper

There is a world of difference between pulling strings to try and influence political outcomes and brazenly annexing land

Indeed there is. Just hold a Referendum- let the People speak. That is Democracy.

Originally Posted by sabang

Indeed there is. Just hold a Referendum- let the People speak. That is Democracy.

Like the one they had in 1991.

Originally Posted by sabang

Indeed there is. Just hold a Referendum- let the People speak. That is Democracy.

If a region or ethnic population wants to secede from a nation then that should be pursued in consultation with the nation that stands to lose the land. Basic international diplomacy 101.

There is nothing even remotely legal or above board about the sham 'referendum' that was held without the involvement of the Ukraine state.

When the secession involves the land being taken over by a much larger and more powerful neighbour with very substantial strategic interests in the land then very substantial reparations should be the very least that are offered. Do you not agree?

Originally Posted by Looper

Do you not agree?

No. The 'host nation' (as you correctly call it) was overrun and circumvented by an illegal and violent military coup, thus installing an illegitimate government. And what a joke it has proved to be.

The people of Crimea had every right, through their own independent Parliamentary process, to decide their own national future democratically. So they held a Referendum. If only those in eastern Ukraine- which enjoys no such territorial status, and does not have it's own Parliament, were so lucky. So the body bags keep mounting there- but not in the Crimea.

And if only those in the West, who preach Democracy, would practise it.

Your attempt to portray Russia's role as a passive onlooker is laughable.

Even if the Ukraine government was overturned in a coup that does not justify very powerful neighbours carving the nation up like roast because they see the opportunity to grab pieces of land they would like to commandeer.

Coups are occasionally part of the political landscape even in the 21st century.

Annexation of territory is not part of the landscape. It is not an acceptable part of international relations any more and any country that engages in such antics should be shunned and punished.

There is no way to legally transfer ownership of a territory without the agreement of the nation losing the territory.