Thread: The EU for or against

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

80-90% of actual raw military power and strike capability of europe is with the UK

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

Popular misconception when assessing military power (like these silly euro wiki boys do) is to count the number of men in arms and number of ships etc. That does not matter. What matters is how good they are

Is this link more to your liking?
Global Firepower Military Ranks - 2014

The Lisbon Treaty moved Europe more towards its own defence organisation and I don't see any harm in that. I, along with many British and Europeans, was not a supporter of the second war on Iraq or the one against Afghanistan. The British may have been less pressured into siding with the USA if they had stronger ties with a European defence force.

Assessing armies during peacetime is always a dangerous game as several past wars have illustrated.

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

Popular misconception when assessing military power

right, because you are a military expert yourself ? with the history of the US being constantly beaten up like a retarded kid by third world peasants, I think it's safe to say that having hitech toys and over equipped retards in your troops is no guarantee of military superiority.

Originally Posted by Rainfall

A great number of people in the UK as well as in Germany are strictly anti-american,

"anti-american" has several connotations and is not easy to evaluate as to what is really meant. I would suggest that anti-american sentiment has never been a majority view in either Country.

Perhaps it would be better to come back to the main topic of whether the EU is a good thing and what its main purpose should be.

Best if the insults, intentional or otherwise, were just ignored rather than swept under the carpet by the Mods all the time....

Originally Posted by Troy

The Lisbon Treaty moved Europe more towards its own defence organisation and I don't see any harm in that. I, along with many British and Europeans, was not a supporter of the second war on Iraq or the one against Afghanistan. The British may have been less pressured into siding with the USA if they had stronger ties with a European defence force.

For me this is a massive argument in favour of strengthening European ties. I'm sick and tired of the UK tagging along with the war mongering escapades of the US.

The problem is that for me the EU lacks any convincing overarching principles. Nick Clegg said in that debate with Farage that he felt in ten years time the EU would be much the same. Like it was a good thing!

Euro MPs need to be convinced that they need to cut down on junkets such as that ridiculous moving base to Strasbourg that they do for a nice change of scene every once in a while. The whole cosy little set up is only ever tolerable in times of prosperity and it's time they stopped being 'waitrose' and became a bit more 'lidl'.

10 years ago, ten behind the iron curtain countries and islands in the Med joined the EU. Hands up, who predicted the end of the world as we know it?

Originally Posted by Troy

Is this link more to your liking?
Global Firepower Military Ranks - 2014

No, it is the same basic "counting the number of men" like the more well known site. No connection at all to the real world.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

with the history of the US being constantly beaten up like a retarded kid by third world peasants

So in your opinion US is not strong, in military terms, nor is the UK, this is typical european fantasy world, or what planet you live on?

Originally Posted by Rainfall

A great number of people in the UK as well as in Germany are strictly anti-american

...all on the dole? Sorry but could not resist.

Originally Posted by Troy

"anti-american" has several connotations and is not easy to evaluate as to what is really meant. I would suggest that anti-american sentiment has never been a majority view in either Country

Actually this is interesting point. You want to make it nice, but actually it is true. For what I see in Europe, Europeans (continental europe) are, by and large, anti-American. Again there is great difference between countries, UK and northern europe are much more aligned with US in their beliefs and way of life than with central europe (nothing to do with politics; just people believing in the same stuff). So who are the Europeans, because "Europeans" are not the same.