Thread: Reasons Citizens Should Own Guns

Originally Posted by OckerRocker

Originally Posted by Morden

I wonder whether he has his own licence for that gun.

I'm not sure but I think it belongs to a 'friend' . . which is why the retard dressed up in PLO garb and a police vest to look ever so cool . . . failing miserably in the process.

He looks so much like the kid who was always bullied and who now thinks a big gun is making him stronger . . . seriously, who would have such a picture taken of himself . . . wanker

Perhaps he was planning to be featured in an episode of Doomsday Preppers.

Originally Posted by pickel

Originally Posted by RickThai

I've been personally assured by the Commander of the Thai Police Department where my BIL works, that if I want to import a pistol for my own protection, he will help me with the paperwork and it will not be a problem.

Until you are on the outs with the missus, or have a problem with somebody that knows a higher up cop than you.

Anyways, I suppose this conversation was over a few drinks, and I doubt he would do it if you pursued it.

No, actually we were at that Thai Police Department's shooting range, where I had been target shooting. He even offered to give me the forms, but I declined because I had no interest in bringing in a firearm at that time.

Shooting someone in self-defense in Thailand can create a lot of legal problems in that country. Even Police officers have to be extremely careful when shooting someone in self-defense. Being a falong only increases the likely-hood of spending a lot of baht to avoid possible jail time.

And you are entirely correct that being in good standing with my wife's relative (and by definition my wife) was the only reason the offer was made.

Thais are very family-oriented (at least the non-dsyfunctional families) and if any spouse (Thai or otherwise) of a another Thai get's out-of-line, than the Thai in-laws will quickly take the side of their relative.

My Thai BIL, once threatened to kill the Thai husband of his youngest sister after he physically abused her. There was no doubt in anyone's mind (including his BIL), that he would do just that, if his sister was ever abused again.


Santi,

RickThai

To get ack on topic.

How anyone who watched that video can show any compassion at all for the attacker is beyond me. What did that woman do to deserve that kind of attack? Nothing, and the only chance she would have had to prevent the attack was to be able to shoot the jerk when he first started trying to break down her door.

In all these posts only one poster has provided any possible alternative solution for that woman (panic buttons) and based upon response times by police and current police department policies (that appear to protect the police officer's safety first and foremost) but do not prevent the crimes, there is little evidence that panic buttons are effective in preventing these type of crimes.

That fact that there are so many people who live among us who do those kinds of things without any remorse or thought for the victim, should be a wake up call to anyone with any common sense (or sense of self-preservation) that current punishments have little or no effect on preventing crimes of that nature.

Innocent children are being killed regularly as a result of gangbangers opening fire without any regard for their lives or the lives of anyone in the vicinity. Yet no one seems to care.

While working outside of Detroit, a news station reported about how neighbors were complaining about all the dead bodies that were being dumped in a vacant field in their neighborhood.

I wonder what the liberal solution to that would be? Provide "cadaver drop off stations" with no questions asked (as they currently do with people dropping off unwanted children)?

So my question to all the liberals/anti-gun posters is, rhetoric aside:

What would you do to prevent your wife/children or yourself from becoming a victim of a violent assault such as that on the video?

Would you shoot someone in order to protect yourself or your family from that woman's fate?

A simple, honest; yes, no, or maybe, if you please.

RickThai

Originally Posted by RickThai

What would you do to prevent your wife/children or yourself from becoming a victim of a violent assault such as that on the video?

A killer-argument. I remember them from my time in the East-German military when we discussed the Christian pacifists who wouldn't touch a gun even to defend their own lives and families. Served in spade units instead, engineering. Different tyranny, same reasoning. I'd say the best thing to prevent crime is to ban guns, and to establish equality, and equal opportunities. And we have to put madmen like you in padded cells asap.

So back on topic.

If you or your wife were the one in video, would you have shot the intruder to prevent the attack?

Please, a simple yes, no, or maybe.

RickThai

Originally Posted by RickThai

Nothing insane about the idea of killing criminals in the commission of serious crimes as opposed to letting them get away to commit more crimes, or spending millions of taxpayer dollars in the revolving door of the US justice system.

Killing criminals outside the justice system makes it non-lawful killing and harks back to my argument about it being recursive until no-one is left to commit a crime. Or are you suggesting that murder be made legal if it is on your own property. That idea is open to such abuse that you would probably end up with only the 15% criminal element left.

Originally Posted by quimbian corholla

Originally Posted by RickThai

and have been shot at repeatedly.

Originally Posted by RickThai

I have studied marital arts for over 25 years

Nice Freudian slip, Cassanova!

CQ,

Good catch! At least you are paying attention.

I meant martial, but after almost 40 years of marriage sometimes the distinction between marital and martial did seem to blur (Just kidding. I have never struck my wife (although with a Thai temper, I have had to block dishes that were thrown at me. A word of advice - never buy stoneware!).

Back on topic.

Would you shoot a home intruder who tried to attack you or your children?

RickThai

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by RickThai

What would you do to prevent your wife/children or yourself from becoming a victim of a violent assault such as that on the video?

A killer-argument. I remember them from my time in the East-German military when we discussed the Christian pacifists who wouldn't touch a gun even to defend their own lives and families. Served in spade units instead, engineering. Different tyranny, same reasoning. I'd say the best thing to prevent crime is to ban guns, and to establish equality, and equal opportunities. And we have to put madmen like you in padded cells asap.

So if you were in the East-German military, then you must have experienced first-hand the miserable existence of so many of its citizens. Maybe you even shot one or two as they tried to escape into West Berlin?

After decades of trying (and failing) to prevent illegal drugs and illegal immigrants from entering the USA, how could the US government ever stop the flow of illegal guns into the country? Impossible.

So once, again, only the criminals would have guns (which they already have contrary to laws to prevent them).

I would guess as a former East German soldier, you were very glad East German citizens didn't have guns. Had to have made your job much easier and safer!

RickThai

Originally Posted by RickThai

Would you shoot a home intruder who tried to attack you or your children?

I would use whatever necessary to remove the threat.
Initially that would be an order to stop.
Last time I shouted such instructions the threat ran away, although the dog may have had something to do with it

One statistic from the BJS:

"*Offenders were known to their victims in 65% of violent burglaries"

Chances are they would know whether or not the homeowner is armed I would think, which increases the chances of them shooting first, no?

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

One statistic from the BJS:

"*Offenders were known to their victims in 65% of violent burglaries"

Chances are they would know whether or not the homeowner is armed I would think, which increases the chances of them shooting first, no?

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

I suppose it could work either way. Some would be put off if they thought you had a gun and others would arrive tooled up ready.

[QUOTE=Rainfall;2506255]

Originally Posted by RickThai

I remember them from my time in the East-German military when we discussed the Christian pacifists who wouldn't touch a gun even to defend their own lives and families. Served in spade units instead, engineering. Different tyranny, same reasoning.....

rainfall,

I'd love a thread on your experiences in East Germany.

The details. What you liked, and didn't like.

What life was like for you?

Possible? Or, could I ask here?

Originally Posted by barbaro

rainfall,

I'd love a thread on your experiences in East Germany.

The details. What you liked, and didn't like.

What life was like for you?

Possible? Or, could I ask here?

It was a life of certainties, everyone had a job which was a place of fun and little stress. We had good food, a home, health care, good education. There was no poverty, no people living on the streets. The prices for anything never changed by so much as a Pfennig. One could build a family home with 120 square metres for about 100 times the average monthly income, but why bother when the rent for a flat was a mere 3% of the monthly wage? The law was comprehensible and never changed either, and you never needed a lawyer. It was a peaceful country internally and externally, I never had to point a gun at anybody, and no one ever pointed a gun at me. There were reasons for national pride, small GDR collected more medals at Olympics than the Americans and Russians more than once. The British felt the same last year. Only thing that really sucked was that the jobs weren't from nine to five, but 06:10 till 15:45, including two breaks for breakfast and lunch. I hated to get up in the night. The leaders weren't particularly bright, but good people. They didn't live in the pomp of white houses but humble bungalows, they didn't have a fleet of personal 747 for journeys, but booked scheduled flights. When we asked them for regime change, they gave in without bloodshed. That, for me, is the divide between good and evil.

It failed because of all the certainties, I guess, there was no need to excell, no incentive to rise socially. A few people did and drove around in Western cars or had huge mansions in zones were no one else could build, but it wasn't much of a difference in a society tuned to equality, that didn't punish idleness, incompetence, and wrong decisions of the individual. They couldn't buy better healthcare, or better education for their kids, or have more days of paid holiday. My single mother had two kids and money wasn't plenty during my childhood, so I figured to work hard and get rich on my own. It was possible if you wanted. Took up a job in the USSR, 84 working hours per week, 3 months apiece without a day off. Building the pipeline that brings gas from Siberia to Europe until today. That paid about 8 times the average income of East German citizens, more than generals or CEOs of the largest factories made. I also traded stuff that was unavailable in the USSR, like Western cassette recorders or walkmen, and bought things not available in GDR on the way home, like gold. One roundtrip, 1,000% profit. Perfectly legal, and taxfree. One of the charts in the thread about the decline of the middle class in the US says the average net worth of the American family was $77,300 in 2010. I had many times this amount in 1989. Would have become a rare millionaire, but then in late 1989 when everything collapsed I thought we would be pulled from the USSR anyway, and quit on my own to join the revolutionaries at home.

I was one of the co-founders of the DSU, a right-wing party that got 6% of the vote in the first free election in GDR, most members later absorbed by the West CDU. Quit my job the day the Westmark was introduced, established my own business, and lost time and interest for politics. Didn't know for the next 15 years were the job center was in my town, but learned to fear the constant intrusions of the revenue office in my matters. There are more entities designed to harass businesses in Germany, the chamber for commerce and trade, the employees health and pensions insurances, the employees accident insurance, and so on. They all want to be updated regularly, and more often than not unscheduled, and their share of the spoils. I also had a couple of kids from earlier marriages, and the lawyers of the mothers or the youth welfare authorities constantly bombarded me with inquiries on how much money I made. I wasn't unwilling to pay, but the rules for support and taxes and everything are in constant flux to maintain certain jobs, and it took an awful lot of time to keep them all informed. Didn't have much time for the actual shop left. I feel the authorities and lawyers were worse than the Stasi in the years before. The long working hours during the late GDR years, and later self-dependance took eventually their toll, and I burned out. Retired at 43, and sold my business.

Thanks for that interesting insight, Rainfall.

^^ Good to see a jewel coming from a silly thread....

Originally Posted by barbaro

An order to stop.

In the US, you would be dead.

Criminals that do home-invasions in the US are nuts and armed.

Mossberg double-barrel, will be my order to stop.

Interesting to read how you perceive burglary in the US and how to prevent it without assessing the situation. No doubt that's how a number are accidentally killed.

The fortune of being born English is very obvious when in the US. Let's take a typical example of a working trip to Atlanta back in the early 90's. A friend and I walked into a bar (we had been invited to by one of the barmaids) and the whole place went quite. I mean complete silence and it felt like a thousand eyes were upon us. We ordered a beer and everyone carried on as normal. We were challenged to a game of pool for a pitcher and managed to stay most of the night without having to pay for another drink. Great place, full of people that RickThai would include in his top 2% let alone 15...We ended up regulars in the place and affectionately known as: "them goddamn English dudes"...

We were staying in Buckhead and frequented several bars during our stay of ~6 months. One time we met up with a Jamaican chap who had a couple of seriously beautiful dolls on his arms. Initially they refused to go into one of the bars because it was regarded as "college white". Fuck that we're English! We pushed them through the door (I seem to remember a very long Happy Hour may have been the real reason). We were met with silence until the Jamaican accent rolled off and all was fine. Turns out the Jamaicans were pretty good singers and another great night was had by all.

Too many times I hear Americans say they are not racist even though I see it with my own eyes that many are. There is so much distrust where there should be none and happy days end up in needless tears.

At the time, I think Atlanta had the highest murder rate in the US. We were told it was a dangerous place and to be on the look-out all the time. Scariest thing I saw was a copperhead that I thought was a stick...jeez they're quick little buggers...

Originally Posted by Morden

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

One statistic from the BJS:

"*Offenders were known to their victims in 65% of violent burglaries"

Chances are they would know whether or not the homeowner is armed I would think, which increases the chances of them shooting first, no?

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

I suppose it could work either way. Some would be put off if they thought you had a gun and others would arrive tooled up ready.

Well the ones being put off wouldn't be in the 65% now, would they?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Morden

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

One statistic from the BJS:

"*Offenders were known to their victims in 65% of violent burglaries"

Chances are they would know whether or not the homeowner is armed I would think, which increases the chances of them shooting first, no?

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt

I suppose it could work either way. Some would be put off if they thought you had a gun and others would arrive tooled up ready.

Well the ones being put off wouldn't be in the 65% now, would they?

Why's that then?

Originally Posted by Morden

Why's that then?

Originally Posted by Troy

Too many times I hear Americans say they are not racist even though I see it with my own eyes that many are. There is so much distrust where there should be none and happy days end up in needless tears.

Racism, is hard to define.

I think distrust is often perceived as racism. There is a reason for distrust.

At the time, I think Atlanta had the highest murder rate in the US. We were told it was a dangerous place and to be on the look-out all the time. Scariest thing I saw was a copperhead that I thought was a stick...jeez they're quick little buggers...

I lived in the District of Columbia, in the southeast (SE). The crime reports did show a lot of assaults, robberies, burglaries, and even rapes.

I was on the line between the so-called white and black neighborhoods. You can walk to a bad place in 10 minutes. By bad I mean, where crimes are often reported.

That said, I was never afraid, nor avoided black areas in general.

I do think the "fear" can be over-rates, and water cooler gossip was about the latest weird violent crime.

However.....if you live in the US long enough, you will know friends and family who have been victims of robbery, violence, guns etc.

I have had a gun pulled on me, my boss was shot in DuPont Circle (DC) and I know beating victims, stabbing victims.

If I had kids, I would be extra aware of certain areas of cities.

It am sure it was certain high crime areas of Atlanta that only needed awareness.

I will live in a black neighborhood with low crime any day. Not a problem.

I occasionally would go to all-black DC bars and have a couple of beers. They treated me like a king. Why? Because I was a white guy who would go into a black bar and chat and have a beer.

Originally Posted by Rainfall

Originally Posted by barbaro

rainfall,

I'd love a thread on your experiences in East Germany.

The details. What you liked, and didn't like.

What life was like for you?

Possible? Or, could I ask here?

It was a life of certainties, everyone had a job which was a place of fun and little stress. We had good food, a home, health care, good education. There was no poverty, no people living on the streets. The prices for anything never changed by so much as a Pfennig. One could build a family home with 120 square metres for about 100 times the average monthly income, but why bother when the rent for a flat was a mere 3% of the monthly wage? The law was comprehensible and never changed either, and you never needed a lawyer. It was a peaceful country internally and externally, I never had to point a gun at anybody, and no one ever pointed a gun at me. There were reasons for national pride, small GDR collected more medals at Olympics than the Americans and Russians more than once. The British felt the same last year. Only thing that really sucked was that the jobs weren't from nine to five, but 06:10 till 15:45, including two breaks for breakfast and lunch. I hated to get up in the night. The leaders weren't particularly bright, but good people. They didn't live in the pomp of white houses but humble bungalows, they didn't have a fleet of personal 747 for journeys, but booked scheduled flights. When we asked them for regime change, they gave in without bloodshed. That, for me, is the divide between good and evil.

It failed because of all the certainties, I guess, there was no need to excell, no incentive to rise socially. A few people did and drove around in Western cars or had huge mansions in zones were no one else could build, but it wasn't much of a difference in a society tuned to equality, that didn't punish idleness, incompetence, and wrong decisions of the individual. They couldn't buy better healthcare, or better education for their kids, or have more days of paid holiday. My single mother had two kids and money wasn't plenty during my childhood, so I figured to work hard and get rich on my own. It was possible if you wanted. Took up a job in the USSR, 84 working hours per week, 3 months apiece without a day off. Building the pipeline that brings gas from Siberia to Europe until today. That paid about 8 times the average income of East German citizens, more than generals or CEOs of the largest factories made. I also traded stuff that was unavailable in the USSR, like Western cassette recorders or walkmen, and bought things not available in GDR on the way home, like gold. One roundtrip, 1,000% profit. Perfectly legal, and taxfree. One of the charts in the thread about the decline of the middle class in the US says the average net worth of the American family was $77,300 in 2010. I had many times this amount in 1989. Would have become a rare millionaire, but then in late 1989 when everything collapsed I thought we would be pulled from the USSR anyway, and quit on my own to join the revolutionaries at home.

I was one of the co-founders of the DSU, a right-wing party that got 6% of the vote in the first free election in GDR, most members later absorbed by the West CDU. Quit my job the day the Westmark was introduced, established my own business, and lost time and interest for politics. Didn't know for the next 15 years were the job center was in my town, but learned to fear the constant intrusions of the revenue office in my matters. There are more entities designed to harass businesses in Germany, the chamber for commerce and trade, the employees health and pensions insurances, the employees accident insurance, and so on. They all want to be updated regularly, and more often than not unscheduled, and their share of the spoils. I also had a couple of kids from earlier marriages, and the lawyers of the mothers or the youth welfare authorities constantly bombarded me with inquiries on how much money I made. I wasn't unwilling to pay, but the rules for support and taxes and everything are in constant flux to maintain certain jobs, and it took an awful lot of time to keep them all informed. Didn't have much time for the actual shop left. I feel the authorities and lawyers were worse than the Stasi in the years before. The long working hours during the late GDR years, and later self-dependance took eventually their toll, and I burned out. Retired at 43, and sold my business.

Rainfall,

Thanks so much for this lengthy response and interesting info.

I'll respond and ask more questions later.

Perhaps a thread would be cool, if ya care.

Very interesting. Thanks.

[QUOTE=Troy;2506257
Killing criminals outside the justice system makes it non-lawful killing and harks back to my argument about it being recursive until no-one is left to commit a crime. Or are you suggesting that murder be made legal if it is on your own property. That idea is open to such abuse that you would probably end up with only the 15% criminal element left.[/QUOTE]

I got news for you Troy, in the USA (I don't know what country you are from), it is legal to kill someone if you are in fear for your life or the life of your family.

It's called "justifiable homicide".

Many states in the US have already passed laws, where a homeowner or a legal resident of the house can shoot someone if they break into their house. The fact that an intruder has entered your home illegally constitutes a "legal threat to your life".

You need to read more.

RickThai