The Gun Issue thread

[chassamui]

Your opinion Chass and we each have one. We can just agree to disagree at this point even though we both feel we have demonstrated proof. Neither of us have "cherry picked," but instead have shown two sides of a topic that has no right side or wrong side

Your use of the word 'we' implies that 'we' agree to differ. I afford no such consent, but accept your retirement from the debate.

[Norton]

All sorts of gun control laws. Ranging from weapon types which can be owned to licensing requirements. Many of these laws have been tested via the courts to determine constitutionality. Some laws found to be constitutionally ok, others not. Bottom line the court determines as is it's mandate as stated in the constitution. So far the courts have judged the right to bear arms with some restriction has been the case. Repealing the 2nd amendment may someday happen. Perhaps in 202 years as it took to ratify the 27th amendment.

However, laws related to types of weapons allowed, imposition of stronger background checks, plus other resonable gun related laws are likely given the politically implications now in play.

Some interesting posts regarding the vagueness of the 2nd amendment. Was it done intentionally so? No. The constitution and amendments is a very small document primarily defining the rights of citizens. Never intended to be specific. Hence vague. Congress writes the laws. The courts assess if the law is constitutional.

Enjoy the debate but keep in mind, the 2nd amendment is here to stay so stricter gun laws short of banning all weapons remain a function of Congress and the courts.

[panama hat]

banning all weapons

Makes sense to me

Until then we'll be commenting on the idiocy of the place to allow thousands of children to be murdered, tens of thousands of adult to be murdered etc...

We'll laugh at exponents of preppers and the ever favourite - the gummint is ginna git me - morons

A laughing stock, were it a matter of laughs

[chassamui]

banning all weapons

Makes sense to me

Until then we'll be commenting on the idiocy of the place to allow thousands of children to be murdered, tens of thousands of adult to be murdered etc...

We'll laugh at exponents of preppers and the ever favourite - the gummint is ginna git me - morons

A laughing stock, were it a matter of laughs

I don't believe a total ban makes sense, nor is it achievable. The UK has fairly sensible and strictly enforced laws on gun control and regulation, which could be adapted.
A total ban would drive the problem underground and it would take years to promulgate. The industry would challenge it and so would the sports, recreational and hunting lobby.
Compromise is the answer. Determine who is capable and the kind of gun suitable in each case. Use enforcable control and regulation to those deemed sufficiently cogent and responsible. Will still take years but better than the current stalemate and more senseless deaths..

[Prikkus]

the dumb shit yanks always whine after yet another mass killing, err..Philipino ferry disasters anyone? you know, learning from one's mistakes etc..

[harrybarracuda]

Never stops, does it?

(CNN)Updated 11:52 AM ET, Fri October 9, 2015

A confrontation between students in a parking lot at Northern Arizona University turned deadly early Friday when, police say, a freshman pulled a gun and shot four male students, killing one.

[harrybarracuda]

Meanwhile, in StupidBitchVille....

The White House is considering an executive action to create new background check rules for people purchasing guns from dealers selling a large quantity of guns, as first reported by the Washington Post.

The announcement came as the president prepared to sit down with families of the victims of the Umpqua Community College shooting in Roseburg, Oregon today. The visit has created some controversy in the area with at least one victim's family saying they will not attend the meeting.

"On principle, I find that I am in disagreement with his policies on gun control, and therefore, we will not be attending the visit," Stacy Bolan, whose daughter was shot and survived the shooting, told Fox News Channel.

[panama hat]

^ Amazing . . .

Never stops, does it?

(CNN)Updated 11:52 AM ET, Fri October 9, 2015

A confrontation between students in a parking lot at Northern Arizona University turned deadly early Friday when, police say, a freshman pulled a gun and shot four male students, killing one.

Clearly had he been unarmed he would have coped a slap . . . with a gun he shoots four people.

Yea, guns aren't the problem

[Ronin]

Determine who is capable and the kind of gun suitable in each case. Use enforcable control and regulation to those deemed sufficiently cogent and responsible. Will still take years but better than the current stalemate and more senseless deaths..

I doubt this is the answer; some people's mental/personal state detoriates over time often unnoticed and guns can by one way or another fall into the wrong hands although I agree stricter controls would reduce the number of needless incidents.

[chassamui]

Quote: Originally Posted by chassamui View Post Determine who is capable and the kind of gun suitable in each case. Use enforcable control and regulation to those deemed sufficiently cogent and responsible. Will still take years but better than the current stalemate and more senseless deaths.. I doubt this is the answer; some people's mental/personal state detoriates over time often unnoticed and guns can by one way or another fall into the wrong hands although I agree stricter controls would reduce the number of needless incidents.

Thought I had made it pretty clear without going into too much detail.
In my view it's the dysfunctional youth who are most likely to explode into a war game going on in their heads.
The dozy old foks will probably forget they even had a licence or where they kept the gun.

[Ronin]

Thought I had made it pretty clear without going into too much detail.
In my view it's the dysfunctional youth who are most likely to explode into a war game going on in their heads.
The dozy old foks will probably forget they even had a licence or where they kept the gun.

You are over looking the fact that people change over the years sometimes with drastic consequences. That well respected citizen down the road may eventually turn out a total psychopath.

The dozy old foks will probably forget they even had a licence or where they kept the gun.

In which case their deliquent off-spring may find it.

[harrybarracuda]

In my view it's the dysfunctional youth who are most likely to explode into a war game going on in their heads.

Perhaps you need to change your view.

http://timelines.latimes.com/deadlie...ting-rampages/

[panama hat]

I don't believe a total ban makes sense, nor is it achievable. The UK has fairly sensible and strictly enforced laws on gun control and regulation, which could be adapted.

Well, it should make sense and it is achievable, in my most humble opinion, sir Chas!

When I say 'ban', I mean no private ownership at home. People who want to go hunting or target shooting can get their gun out at the designated place for this activity . . . use it . . . and return it to the secure station.

Private gun ownership is the largest supplier of weapons to the 'underground' . . . without which supply is shut off and illegally held weapons would eventually dry up as well.
Add a few other measures, like voluntary returns, buy-back, donate a gun to Canadians charity etc...

There is simply no reason to take a rifle into Starbucks while getting your double chai latte . . . none whatsoever . . . I simply cannot imagine anyone being so insecure as to do that.
A nation of whimps, it seems

[harrybarracuda]

I would feel less safe with this pair of chimps toting their guns in a Starbucks than not.

Image getting caught in the crossfire when the fat moose finds out he's been shagging one of the waitresses?

[MrG]

Thought I had made it pretty clear without going into too much detail.
In my view it's the dysfunctional youth who are most likely to explode into a war game going on in their heads.
The dozy old foks will probably forget they even had a licence or where they kept the gun.

You are over looking the fact that people change over the years sometimes with drastic consequences. That well respected citizen down the road may eventually turn out a total psychopath.

The dozy old foks will probably forget they even had a licence or where they kept the gun.

In which case their deliquent off-spring may find it.

Don't for get to add alcohol.

[chassamui]

Perhaps you need to change your view.
http://timelines.latimes.com/deadlie...ting-rampages

Majority are late teens early twenties. Kind of proves my point.

[harrybarracuda]

Perhaps you need to change your view.
http://timelines.latimes.com/deadlie...ting-rampages

Majority are late teens early twenties. Kind of proves my point.

Look again.

The average age of the people listed is almost 33. Only about a third are under 25 (And I wouldn't call early 20's "dysfunctional youth" anyway; at 21 you're an adult in the US).

Most of the mass shooters in the past have been disgruntled middle-aged men by the looks (hence the origin of the phrase "going postal").

It's probably just that school shootings just get more publicity.

[chassamui]

at 21 you're an adult in the US).

That just has to be a typo. Most of the nobbers on here have not reached mental puberty yet.

Only about a third are under 25

Count again Harry, based on ages given about a third are in their 40s but stopped growing up when they were kicked out of grade school.
I bet if their mental ages were given they would all struggle to reach 13.

In the US they still don't grow up until they have served at least 2 terms in prison.
With a few notable exceptions, you are debating with teenagers like BM and Rickshoppers every time you reply to a post in speakers corner.

[rickschoppers]

Gee Chass, I expected more from you. Now you are putting yourself on the level of Harry and PH and they are infantile idiots.

[harrybarracuda]

at 21 you're an adult in the US).

That just has to be a typo. Most of the nobbers on here have not reached mental puberty yet.

Only about a third are under 25

Count again Harry, based on ages given about a third are in their 40s but stopped growing up when they were kicked out of grade school.
I bet if their mental ages were given they would all struggle to reach 13.

In the US they still don't grow up until they have served at least 2 terms in prison.
With a few notable exceptions, you are debating with teenagers like BM and Rickshoppers every time you reply to a post in speakers corner.

Now you're just blathering.

I was trying to make a serious point.

Most mass killers are older gentlemen who lose their rag. I was surprised to see that lady in there tbh.

Pseudopuss has probably got an answer for it, like fluoride in the water or carcinogens in the vaccines or summat.

[rickschoppers]

Sorry Harry, but you are on ignore so I can not see your infantile response.

[chassamui]

Now you're just blathering. I was trying to make a serious point. Most mass killers are older gentlemen who lose their rag. I was surprised to see that lady in there tbh. Pseudopuss has probably got an answer for it, like fluoride in the water or carcinogens in the vaccines or summat.

To be honest Harry I have not counted, just a casual scroll down reveals 2 things. Most are disenchanted kids, some of whom failed to grow up. Rebuffed by a girl or an employer for some perceived sleight. No grasp on reality and what they see in their narrow closetted world is a violent response. Not against any serious authority, but against a school or a college where they know the challenge, if any will be feeble at best.
Premediated stupidity bred by ignorance and unreasonable expectations, derived from an alternate reality that only they inhabit. The roots of this are in a minority of the overlooked missfits in a part broken society, where the availability of guns is the common denominator.
These people do not see real blood or bullets or pain, just another game scenario where they win for a change.

[MrG]

Mass Murderers Fit Profile, as Do Many Others Who Don’t Kill
By N. R. KLEINFIELD, RUSS BUETTNER, DAVID W. CHEN and NIKITA STEWARTOCT. 3, 2015

Snip

The mass public killings that have drawn such intense public attention are a phenomenon that largely did not occur until two generations ago.

Grant Duwe, a criminologist with the Minnesota Department of Corrections, has studied more than 1,300 mass murders that took place from 1900 to 2013. Of them, he classifies 160 as mass public shootings, ones in which at least four people were shot and killed in a concentrated period, excluding those in family settings or involving other crimes.

There were few before the 1960s. The episode, Dr. Duwe said, that some academics view as having “introduced the nation to the idea of mass murder in a public space” happened in 1966, when Charles Whitman climbed a tower at the University of Texas at Austin and killed 16 people.

Using data compiled by Dr. Duwe, the Congressional Research Service released a report this year that charted an increase in these shootings since then, from an average of one per year during the 1970s to four in the 2000s and a slight uptick in the last few years. The figures, however, are subject to intense debate, mainly over how to properly define the shootings.

Those who study these types of mass murderers have found that they are almost always male (all but two of the 160 cases isolated by Dr. Duwe). Most are single, separated or divorced. The majority are white. With the exception of student shooters at high schools or lower schools, they are usually older than the typical murderer, often in their 30s or 40s.
They vary in ideology. They generally have bought their guns legally. Many had evidence of mental illness, particularly those who carried out random mass killings. But others did not, and most people with mental illness are not violent.

“They’re depressed,” Dr. Fox said. “They’re not out of touch with reality. They don’t hear voices. They don’t think the people they’re shooting are gophers.”

More
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/us...kill.html?_r=0

[rickschoppers]

I find it interesting how many here continue to compare Australia and the UK to America when it comes to gun control. Many state if it can be done in those countries, it can be done in the US. Everyone keeps overlooking an important detail which is total population.

Population of Australia approximately 24 million.

Population of UK approximately 64 million.

Population of US approximately 325 million.

For a group such as this that seems to focus on details, this is one that has been left out. Are these populations even close in number? Hardly. So how in the hell can everyone keep comparing the two and state if one country with 24 million can do something, then why can't a country of 325 million do the same? This does not even take into consideration the difference in government, judicial systems, cultures, etc., etc.

The other dynamic that interests me is the total amount of time and number of posts made on a topic that seems to disgust most members. Is it the drama? Is it because there is another chance to bash or flame Americans? I read in another thread where many complained about the amount of American topics in the SC. Simple solution, just don't post in them and they will die a natural death. Why not post in travel or picture threads, or even growing crops in Thailand that would be infinitely more worthwhile to TD members. Instead, there seems to be a lot of negative interaction between members and many do not even live in Thailand. Is this the purpose of TD? Was it the purpose when TD started to discuss valuable information that Thai expats could actually use?

I, for one, would prefer to see informative threads instead of topics that have no clear solution. Everyone complains about how TD is losing membership and this just might be one of the reasons.

[MrG]

I, for one, would prefer to see informative threads instead of topics that have no clear solution.

The simple solution is right under your nose.

Simple solution, just don't post in them and they will die a natural death.