Thread: "support the troops"

What's easier, stress or death?

Originally Posted by Texpat

They read about it.

I'm not sure who you were having a stab at Tex but I'll respond to my quote about the cooks. From experience, combat soldiers are less likely to re-enlist, or voluntary extend, their commitment, than people serving in rear echelons. The reasons are obvious.

Originally Posted by Texpat

But that doesn't correspond with Butterfly's exhaustive reviews of Hollywood movies -- the lion's share of his extensive research.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Expand Butterhole's expertise to all things Pentagon-related. He's an renowned expert in the field. Tell us Mr Hole, what is your background?

Originally Posted by Texpat

Well that settles it. Butterfly is an authority.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Butterhole's a sad, frustrated, insignificant little queer knob jockey who's having trouble accepting the fact that he's amounted to nothing in life and feels better when lashing out at those who have made some measure of contribution.

LOL !!! obsessed much ? every other post from you is about me, no matter the topic

have another one, Tex, will make you forget who you really are

Originally Posted by Norton

The NVVRS overestimated PTSD rates and the CDC underestimated PTSD rates.
There was very little evidence of veterans falsely claiming to have PTSD.

Show me an independent study not from a government agency and without Pentagon suspicious data, and then maybe I will start to believe you,

it could be 70%, 80%, 85%, or 90%, who care exactly about the exact statistics, the issue is that too many come back fucked up,

and that's the tragedy of it,

Originally Posted by Butterfly

the issue is that too many come back fucked up, and that's the tragedy of it,

Yes war is a tragedy and should never be entered into on a whim. Anyone who has witnessed first hand the horrors of war will never forget the experience. The vast majority can and have managed to cope with the experience. Few will talk much about it and those that seem to enjoy telling about their adventures in combat are often ones who have never really had any significant combat experience.

For the vast majority who have managed to cope and go on to lead productive lives, being labeled for whatever reason as being a violent, psychotic, damaged individual is not only untrue it is an insult to their character and truly uncalled for.

It seems crazy that people are saying that high numbers of troops that come back from combat zones are fcuked up. It's a known fact that it takes X4 rear echelon people to keep one combat operator on the front line. So where do these high figures come from ?

Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

It seems crazy that people are saying that high numbers of troops that come back from combat zones are fcuked up. It's a known fact that it takes X4 rear echelon people to keep one combat operator on the front line. So where do these high figures come from ?

They're making 'em up...

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

They're making 'em up...

The posters or the statistions ?

Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

They're making 'em up...

The posters or the statistions ?

Most likely, both. You know the old saying: "There's lies, damned lies and then there's statistics"

Who said that ? I think I remember hearing this quote before.

Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

Who said that ? I think I remember hearing this quote before.

Think it was Mark Twain.

Originally Posted by Norton

For the vast majority who have managed to cope and go on to lead productive lives, being labeled for whatever reason as being a violent, psychotic, damaged individual is not only untrue it is an insult to their character and truly uncalled for.

My point is that they are still damaged by the effect of wars, not damaged goods as throw away or should be disrespected, damaged goods as things will never be the same. They will recover but never at 100%, and they just become another layer of risk to society. Not necessarily by violence, but by disrupting society one way or another.

Originally Posted by Ivor Biggun

It's a known fact that it takes X4 rear echelon people to keep one combat operator on the front line. So where do these high figures come from ?

Interesting statistics. I think we were all assuming here front combatants, not the ones behind their desk. So if you multiply those stats from the Pentagon by 4, then it gets closer to a sample of front combatants with 80% being "damaged". Thanks for pointing that one, re-enforce my initial estimate, even though stats are at the end meaningless

I think your figures are way to low Ivor.

Probably 10 people support one combatant.

In the Air Force it's more like 50 people support one fighter jet.

Originally Posted by Texpat

I think your figures are way to low Ivor. Probably 10 people support one combatant. In the Air Force it's more like 50 people support one fighter jet.

Obviously each country stat's vary, due to one thing or another. I was basing my stat's on the British army. I agree that airforces would require larger ground support. Where as everyone on board a ship, doing whatever job, is a frontline combatant when in a hostile zone.

Here is a man that dedicated his support for the troops, only to be sued.

Only, in America:

Judge's ruling protects man's anti-war T-shirtU.S. »


PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- A federal judge on Wednesday permanently barred Arizona from using a state law to prosecute an online merchant who sells shirts
that list names of thousands of troops killed in Iraq.

U.S. District Judge Neil Wake did not strike down the 2007 law against selling products that use of military casualties' names without families' permission. But he ruled that using the law to prosecute Dan Frazier would violate the Flagstaff man's First Amendment rights because his "Bush Lied -- They Died" shirts are "core political speech."

"It is impossible to separate the political from the commercial aspects of that display," Wake wrote. "For example, the state argues that Frazier can sell his shirts without displaying the soldiers' names. But Frazier's product is his message, and his customers' message."

Arizona's law was enacted with little debate by the Legislature, and Louisiana, Oklahoma and Texas have enacted similar laws.

A spokeswoman for Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard said Goddard's office was reviewing the ruling and did not immediately know whether it would appeal.
"I always knew the Constitution was on my side," Frazier said in a statement released by the American Civil Liberties Union.
Lee Phillips, a Flagstaff lawyer who represented Phillips on behalf of the ACLU, said it could be possible to use the law to prosecute a person in a case without political circumstance or motivations.

Citing First Amendment concerns, Wake had issued a preliminary injunction in September against enforcement of the law against Frazier while the lawsuit was pending.

The ACLU is also defending Frazier in a lawsuit filed in federal court in Tennessee by a couple whose soldier son was killed in Iraq. Robin and Michael Read of Greeneville have asked that their case be expanded to cover more than 4,000 casualties and seek more than $40 billion in damages.

Link: Judge's ruling protects man's anti-war T-shirts - CNN.com

Dear Mr. Obama

An Iraq Veteran has a personal message for Barak Obama :


PC Free Zone

Obama Forgets the Name of Iraqi War Hero On His Bracelet

His troop bracelet was given to him by the mother of a soldier whose son was killed in the Iraq War.

^I ain't running to be POTUS...

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Norton

For the vast majority who have managed to cope and go on to lead productive lives, being labeled for whatever reason as being a violent, psychotic, damaged individual is not only untrue it is an insult to their character and truly uncalled for.

My point is that they are still damaged by the effect of wars, not damaged goods as throw away or should be disrespected, damaged goods as things will never be the same. They will recover but never at 100%, and they just become another layer of risk to society. Not necessarily by violence, but by disrupting society one way or another.

Anyone who goes through trauma is never the same. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Obama Forgets the Name of Iraqi War Hero On His Bracelet

What a cheap shot Boon. Over 4,100 have been killed in Iraq.

Do you expect Obama to remember this guy's particular name?

Well, if it's on the bracelet he wears it shouldn't be too difficult.

Well, if it's on the bracelet he wears it shouldn't be too difficult.

Not even for a Dem candidate?

Now that the bracelets are being discussed, if someone wants to wear one for the someone they know, that is fine. But when people wear it in public it can be seen by all: in the grocery stores, in bars, at the mall, etc.

To me, the yellow bracelet worn in public can be perceived as a political statement.

As I've always believed: support the troops means support GWB's policy in Iraq, and this means supporting Abdul Azziz al-Hakim, al-Sadr, the DAWA party, and in general Shiites in Iraq.

? I thought the yellow bracelet was first introduced by Lance Armstrong in the fight against cancer.

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

? I thought the yellow bracelet was first introduced by Lance Armstrong in the fight against cancer.

Perhaps. But Lance Armstrong's Cancer survivor bracelet is a different matter.

On a related note, the "yellow ribbons," I first remember during the hostage situation in Iran.