Thread: "support the troops"

You're right Bugs, but it's like talking to a wall. All the nonsense arguments (1,200 cooks in Iraq) are diversions from the news they wish not to believe.

The incentives this all-volunteer force provide make extending their contracts attractive for many. Not all.

And if they're in Iraq, they're earning combat pay.

And the outdated mindset that the only jobs exposed are infantry and special forces and door-kickers is quite old-fashioned. But you can't explain that to some of these posters who know all.

They read about it.

Originally Posted by Bugs

They joined the military as a life long career choice and time spent in iraq has not changed their perspective.

It's pretty scary to think that those people will be back in the US eventually, damaged goods that will become threats in a already violent society,

for those who are too fucked up to do anything because the war will have destroyed their morals, they will be sitting in some office fucking someone else life,

Hopefully there will not be more posting drunk on TD in the middle of the night, bitching and moaning about a long lost and irrelevant Patriotism

Vets are highly sought after by corporate America. Many have been in high-pressure situations that demand clear-headed decision making. Something the lecture halls of MIT and Stanford could never recreate.

Keep spewing your nonsense Sputterfly. It makes you feel better. You could never imagine having the words war hero on your CV could you? You are just a putz and will always be a spermburping twat --a proud member of the unwilling, unaware and illogical.

Originally Posted by Texpat

Many have been in high-pressure situations that demand clear-headed decision making.

You mean clear-headed decision like shooting women and children ?

Originally Posted by Texpat

Something the lecture halls of MIT and Stanford could never recreate.

They have created more than silly wars have destroyed. If it wasn't for them, you wouldn't have had a chance to play "soldier" in your little hummer,

Originally Posted by Texpat

war hero

There is some kind of contradiction in that term, above all when it's quoted by you

Originally Posted by Norton

Perhaps you can find statistics to support this claim.

Vietnam war, enough said. How many Vietnam war veterans out the millions sent to Vietnam were well adjusted when they returned ?

Even McCain is damaged good, just look at him flip flop on everything, can't make his mind on anything,

The Truth is the US can't take care of their service men after a war, the damages are too great, they know it. The best way is to let them drift away and marginalize them.

Watch it happen, and learn

Butterhole's a sad, frustrated, insignificant little queer knob jockey who's having trouble accepting the fact that he's amounted to nothing in life and feels better when lashing out at those who have made some measure of contribution.

He can't stand to read about the happy Americans in Bangkok. He's crushed by the idea that Iraq just might be a much better place that it ever has been in the history of the nation. He'll nitpick and whine about anything US related. He's completely and utterly obsessed with GWB. I've never been exposed to anybody with such a complex in my life. I doubt there's a cure for it.

It's too late for him to turn his life around. He's destined to take his bitter twisted attitudes to his grave.

^ what are you talking about Tex ? you are a deserter, of course you are happy. We can all see it in your posts

Proof positive. Rest in peace spermburper.

By Rick Hampson
USA Today
Jul 5, 2008

WARMINSTER, Pa. — The young soldier hadn’t slept in 48 hours or bathed in 72. Now that he was finally back from Iraq, all Pfc. Justin Gindhart wanted was a hot shower and a soft bed.

But these days, Gindhart discovered, a soldier’s homecoming isn’t always that simple.

To his surprise, there was a troop of motorcycle-riding Vietnam vets to greet him at the airport; a police-escorted motorcade past blocked-off intersections and highway entrances that backed up traffic for miles; an appearance at a support-the-troops rally; and a gathering of neighbors and friends, alerted by fire and ambulance sirens, outside his family’s house. And the biggest shock of all — a reunion with a disabled comrade whose life he’d helped save in Iraq.

“Wow! I thought I was just gonna come home,” the startled private told the crowd that spilled across his lawn and into the street on Father’s Day. “I didn’t expect anything like this!”

He should have. Troops coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan are being welcomed with celebrations that are increasingly elaborate, frequently surreptitious and occasionally over the top.

Like many of those who are greeted like latter-day Caesars, Gindhart was quick to point out that he wasn’t exceptional. He was a 20-year-old medic who’d spent eight months in Iraq and hadn’t been seriously wounded or highly decorated. He was home only on an 18-day leave.

For many communities, nothing is too good when it comes to showing support for returning troops.

“He really deserved something special,” said Gindhart’s mother, Lisa, who had only 18 hours to complete arrangements after learning of her son’s scheduled arrival at the Philadelphia airport. “This is the happiest day of my life.”

She, like many other Americans, said any military homecoming — for temporary leave or to stay home for good — deserves major festivities.

Celebrations such as Gindhart’s reflect a renewed national appreciation of those who serve, said Morten Ender, a sociologist at the U.S. Military Academy.

One reason, he said, is that the home front is asked to sacrifice relatively little for the war effort — no tax surcharges, rationing or draft. So some civilians show their patriotism by how they honor the troops.

“The [Bush] administration has set the tone of going about our normal lives, but people aren’t necessarily comfortable with that,” Ender said. “They want to do something to show their appreciation.”

Sarah Schoen of Port Clinton, Ohio, said that partly explains the elaborate homecoming reception she planned for her boyfriend, Army Sgt. Travis McCleary: “There is a war going on, and we’re here back home, just hangin’ out. This was a way of doing something.”

Diane Mazur, a University of Florida law professor and former Air Force officer, goes further: “What motivates these ostentatious displays is the unspoken, almost unconscious guilt over the way military service works now. A narrow slice of Americans serve again and again. It’s as if we’re saying, ‘We will engage in these very public displays of worship, provided you don’t ask ‘us’ to serve.’”

And there’s something else. Talk to those who stage these welcome celebrations, and it becomes clear that it’s not only about the reception these troops deserve but also about the reception another generation of returning veterans deserved and did not get.

It’s about Vietnam.

An egg and a parade

In February, El Paso announced plans for a “Welcome Home Heroes Parade” to mark the return to Fort Bliss of a unit of the First Cavalry Division.

The parade wasn’t expected to be much of a draw. It would be held on a weekday and feature no floats, pop stars or beauty queens — just the 4,000 soldiers and 31 riderless horses to mark those who did not come back.

About 12,000 people showed up, lining the mile-long route and making the parade the Iraq war’s largest civilian-planned homecoming celebration so far.

The unit commander, Col. Stephen Twitty, was shocked by the turnout. He said it showed that regardless of how people feel about the war, “they still support the troops.”

Tellingly, the El Paso event’s roots go back to 1970, during the Vietnam War. A just-discharged Army officer named John Cook stepped through the gate at Fort Lewis, Wash., and, he says, was hit by an egg thrown by a war protester.
Cook is now mayor of El Paso.

“That was my welcome home to civilian life,” he said.

He vowed to do better for veterans who followed. The parade, 38 years later, was a result.

At almost every homecoming celebration, there are people like Cook, repeating the lament — about how Vietnam vets were at worst spit on and at best ignored.
Tom Murtha is one of the Vietnam vets who escorted Justin Gindhart home this month. He said that when he came home to Philadelphia in 1968 with a shattered right leg, World War II veterans shunned him for not having fought in “a real war.”

Murtha is determined to not let that to happen again. He recites the motto of Vietnam Veterans of America: “Never again will one generation of veterans abandon another.”

Many Vietnam vets felt abandoned by the public for whom they supposedly were fighting.

Like Murtha, Mike Stuckey is a member of the Patriot Guard Riders, a national organization of motorcycle enthusiasts that provides escorts for military funerals and homecomings. Stuckey returned from Vietnam to his native Mazon, Ill., in 1970.

“When I came home, I just came home,” he recalls. “My family was happy to see me, but the public attitude was, ‘OK, you’re home; big deal.’ I don’t know if I really resented it. It was just the way things were. But in retrospect, I don’t think the sacrifices made in that era were respected. I want it to be different this time.”

Some historians say abuse of Vietnam vets has been vastly overstated.
Jerry Lembcke, a sociologist at the College of the Holy Cross who served in Vietnam, studied news reports and other sources from the era and found virtually no reports of veterans being spit on or attacked by protesters. In polls, most veterans said they were well received.

But the stories, endlessly repeated, reflect an emotional reality: Vietnam vets often felt disrespected by war protesters and ignored by war supporters.
Today, although many Americans who opposed the Vietnam War still say it was immoral and ill-advised, many others feel guilty about how its veterans were treated.

This regret finds expression in the welcome given to those returning from another war. Ender calls it “a way to make collective amends for collective guilt.”

Like many other service members, Gindhart makes it a point to seek out and thank Vietnam vets.

“It’s horrible how they were treated,” he said.

Gindhart told Murtha, who’d also been a medic, “a lot of the stuff we [medics] do now was pioneered by you guys back then.”

Murtha beamed.

Scenes such as that tell Bonnie Melland of Sherwood, Ill., who’s had surprise homecoming celebrations for both her Marine sons, that as a nation, “we’ve learned our lesson.” The lesson is this: Don’t confuse the warrior with the war, don’t blame the private for the decisions of the commander in chief.

Surprise, surprise

Recent military homecoming blowouts have included:

* Airport privileges for the welcome party. Though access and parking at airports is restricted, troops’ relatives and friends often are permitted to meet them at the gate or even on the tarmac.

In one case, a commercial jetliner landed and was diverted toward a hangar at LaGuardia Airport. Bill “Hawk” Connelly of the New Jersey chapter of the Patriot Guard Riders said that as passengers watched, a soldier onboard stepped off onto the tarmac and the hangar door went up to reveal a crowd of his family and friends. The plane then taxied off to the terminal.

* A police-escorted motorcade. The Patriot Guard Riders help form escorts from the airport that are usually led by police cars. Highway ramps and intersections often are closed; sometimes toll plaza lanes are shut down so the motorcade can roll on without stopping or paying.

* A triumphal arch. Sometimes the motorcade will pass under an arch formed by two fire trucks’ extended ladders. A flag is hung from the apex (under a spotlight at night), as it was when Elliott Favaro returned home to Fair Lawn, N.J., after serving with the Marines in Iraq.

* The key to the city. Many troops are greeted personally by the mayor or other local officials, often with an official proclamation. April 26, for example, was Elliott Favaro Day in Fair Lawn.

* A big party — and maybe an illegal beer. Although the guest of honor was not 21, no one seemed to object when Marine Cpl. Andrew Lenzie hoisted a Bud Light at his homecoming blowout in New Lenox, Ill., in April. There aren’t many no-nos on such occasions except for fireworks, which often are not appreciated by those just back from war.

The Iraq homecoming celebration’s most conspicuous element is the one of surprise.

In Iraq, Justin Gindhart helped save the life of Cpl. Wesley Leon Barrientos, who was severely injured by a roadside bomb five days before Christmas and spent months undergoing rehabilitation at Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C.

The two had not seen each other since the attack. Then, at the rally Gindhart attended on the way home from the airport, an event organizer told him to turn around. There was Wes — walking toward him with his new prosthetics.

“That was the best part — to see him get up and walk under his own power — not in a wheelchair, not with crutches, not being held,” Gindhart said later. “You can’t feel any other pride like that.”

Other homecoming surprises:

As McCleary was being driven home from the Cleveland airport by Schoen, the latter mysteriously kept sending text messages to her brother. Suddenly, there were flashing lights and sirens behind the car; McCleary thought they were being pulled over for speeding; it was police and emergency vehicles forming a motorcade to escort him to a surprise party.

Lenzie could be excused for impatience when, as his family was driving him home, they pulled off the highway. His mother said she had to pick up something at Kohl’s. In the parking lot were dozens of motorcyclists, part of an escort that whisked the family into town.

Marine Cpl. Bobby Brown, on leave in Minooka, Ill., surprised his little brother by showing up unannounced at football practice. Then he heard sirens, horns and engines — a fleet of emergency vehicles and motorcycles had arrived to lead him to his own surprise party.

Although few of the troops complain about the celebrations, sometimes their organizers “go overboard,” said Bonnie Melland, Brown’s mother.

She said that although the outgoing Bobby enjoyed the attention, her other Marine son, Matt, was uncomfortable with his own surprise welcome.

“He said, ‘I don’t want to talk about what I did over there.’ He went along [with the celebration] more for me than anything,” she said.

Ender understands such a reaction.

“Some soldiers don’t want all the attention. They’re socialized to be humble; it’s the ‘no-I’s-in-team’ ethos of the armed forces,” he says. “The guys coming home don’t necessarily feel heroic while there are still guys back there on the front. Especially if they’re able-bodied when they come home, they may feel they don’t deserve all these accolades.”

As his own party began to wind down, Justin Gindhart admitted he’d been overwhelmed by his reception: “I really didn’t deserve all that.”

But in a long war of tour after tour, the best he can hope for is another homecoming.

Shortly after he arrived home, a teary Lisa Gindhart asked, “Do you have to go back?”

“Yes, Mom, I do,” he replied. “I want to go back. It’s my job.”

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2008/07/gns_homecomings_af_070408/

***

Surely all this is the runaway imagination of a prolific writer and a few hundred thousand collaborators.

Regarding this topic, a vast majority of the posters on TD have no idea and are merely spouting off.

Me neither. Who wants to go around hugging people for an hour after sitting in lines and on planes for 72 hours?

Breath mint anyone?

Originally Posted by Norton

Several studies have been done on how many suffered or still suffer post traumatic syndrome disorder, PTSD. Consensus appears to be about 18% (450,000) suffered PTSD with less than 9% (225,000) still suffer.

Studies from the Pentagon doesn't mean shit, so I would take those numbers with a big grain of salt,

Those who fought and had any moral were damaged goods when they return,

Those who fought and had a great time were already damaged goods, so at the end the results was the same,

Wars fucked up people, 90% of them, trying to explain it's not true, it's like you explaining how women being raped were just asking for it,

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Studies from the Pentagon doesn't mean shit, so I would take those numbers with a big grain of salt, Those who fought and had any moral were damaged goods when they return, Those who fought and had a great time were already damaged goods, so at the end the results was the same, Wars fucked up people, 90% of them, trying to explain it's not true, it's like you explaining how women being raped were just asking for it,

Very well carry on. I shall no longer attempt to sway your opinion with facts. I'm am sure you are a much better authority than I on Vietnam vets.

^ as for facts, the few I have met were all fucked up as well, some interesting but very fucked up

^ I hardly see how 90% of them couldn't be fucked up, logically speaking

are you saying that wars are healthy for the mind ? and doesn't have any impact ?

Originally Posted by Norton

I shall no longer attempt to sway your opinion with facts.

citing Pentagon studies is hardly citing facts, above all when the Pentagon has an history of manufacturing convenient statistics, so claiming some kind of authority because you just read some manufactured numbers doesn't really qualify you beyond just repeating Pentagon opinionated numbers,

are you familiar with the Pentagon files ? if yes, look no further and you have your answer

Expand Butterhole's expertise to all things Pentagon-related. He's an renowned expert in the field. Tell us Mr Hole, what is your background? How many years have you spent studying Pentagon-related matters? Where did you study military science? What is your work history in the defense industry?

It must be an exhilarating line of work, what with all the secrets and classified documents and cover-ups. How does your current employment as a TEFLr in Thailand lend itself to your vaunted position as a US military expert?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ I hardly see how 90% of them couldn't be fucked up, logically speaking

are you saying that wars are healthy for the mind ? and doesn't have any impact ?

Not at all, sure war can be unhealthy for the body and mind, and sure war can have an impact on ones mental health. But going from war is not healthy, and war impacts the mind, to war makes 90% of the folks that take part fucked-up ain’t much of a logic chain.

Humans and their minds can deal with quite a lot before they are negatively affected to such a degree that they would be classified as fucked up.