Thread: 9/11 was an inside job

Originally Posted by FloridaBorn

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Could you let me have the time frame that actually shows a 757 jet airliner in this video as I have watched it several times and still cannot see anything that resembles a plane.

Very simply security cams are for slow moving people not 500MPH airplanes.. End of.. More to the point, they're not high speed cams and have a very limited scope of vision, hell! Half the time they're not even that good for identifying criminals...

Are you being intentionally obtuse? Oh yes, I get it, makes it easier to be in denial that way. See quote above..

Isn't a tad inconvenient that the planes manufacturer states that the plane couldn't fly at that speed at ground / sea level without breaking up. Also the cameras might not have given a great picture of the plane but there is absolutely nothing that any way shape or form could be classed as evidence of a plane flying into the pentagon.
Or the fact that the guy who taught the alleged hijacker states the guy could fly a single engined Cessna safely or confidently and a pilot with thousands of hours stating that he couldn't perform the turns and fly the plane at those speeds and hit the wall so close to the ground but you blindly accept it happened the way you are told because you are a patriot and your Government wouldn't lie to you now would they.
Go and watch September 11 the new Pearl harbour. The first three are on Youtube. Then tell me all these people are conspiracy nut jobs.
These are firemen, policemen, Trade centre building maintenance staff, eyewitnesses, architects, engineers, pilots, demolition experts.
All these people are calling it BS
Not tea party, political nut jobs but professional people.
They also show how the debunkers have been debunked themselves.
9/11 was a modern day " Operation northwood "
Google it. They planned to fake terrorist attacks, blame Castro and then invade Cuba.
Now where have I heard that before ?
Like the bay of Tonkin and Pearl Harbour and all the other false flag operations used as an excuse to commit troops to war.
Very hard to believe that your government would do such a thing but it has plenty of past history as do most governments. The Uk as well.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Isn't a tad inconvenient that the planes manufacturer states that the plane couldn't fly at that speed at ground / sea level without breaking up.

EVENTUALLY.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Also the cameras might not have given a great picture of the plane but there is absolutely nothing that any way shape or form could be classed as evidence of a plane flying into the pentagon.

Except perhaps all the debris on the lawn (or was it spring-loaded to leap up out of pre-prepared pits ? ) plus the engine found inside, or.....etc etc.


By bringing up such silly points as the above, ENT is actually discrediting the entire movement which he claims to espouse. Stubblebine, indeed ! The man is now in his early 80s. He was in his late 70s when he started making such claims. He was eased out of the Army while was in his 50s because he was trying to walk through wall and train others to explode animal heads by staring at them.

Read some posts about him here : http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=91832
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Hypnoses of the masses? Or just mass stupidity? I still can't figure it out. But to be sure, the control of the commercial mass media by the very conglomerates that own the politicians and the coerce the establishment is enough to keep those who could speak quiet as church mice. It's funny that Americans heatedly debate MSNBC (Liberals!) versus FOX (redneck neo-cons), when the rest of the world can tell there is really not much space in between - just like America in general - it's been purposely steered to the right of centre (successfully) for decades.

Read it and weep. I don't hear any of those witnesses saying they saw a missile.

9/11: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon, page 1

Anyone who believes otherwise is delusional. You've just stated one big fat lie and you're too fucking dumb to even admit it.

"Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. 'There was a big boom,' he said. 'Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled "Did you see that?" Nobody could believe it.'"
- "Bush Vows Retaliation for 'Evil Acts'. " USA Today, 11 Sep 2001

"Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."
- "A Defiant Recovery. " The Retired Officer Magazine, January 2002

"Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. 'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts. " The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. 'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'"
- "Pentagon Eyewitness Accounts. " The Guardian, 12 Sep 2001

"Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. 'There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud,' he said."
- "Hell on Earth. " UU World, Jan/Feb 20

"We were the only people, we think, who saw it live," Dan Creed said. He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," - Ahwatukee Foothill News

Gary Bauer former Presidential candidate, "I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn�t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." Massachusetts News

Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." dcmilitary.com November 16, 2001

"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] NFPA Journal November 1, 2001

That's just a small smattering of people who have gone on record as seeing the plane, and the plane hit the Pentagon. I could have included the dozens of people who saw the plane, but didn't see it hit (because it went behind a bridge, a hill, or some trees), but I choose only to post the ones that sounded the most valid and actually saw the plane hit the building. (I included the one firechief who states he saw some plane wreckage during firefighting/rescue attempts.) There are most likely twenty times more that either haven't been publicly recorded as seeing the crash, or simply don't want the attention. You can't honeslty sit there and deny the witnesses, the photographs, the facts, the science, and the reality that there was a terrorist attack on the Pentagon if you look at everything available and not one single tidbit of information at a time.

Tony, you are much closer to the truth than you think. From interacting with ENT on this forum for 2 years now, I can tell that he _IS_ in fact a loonie. He has virtually admitted that he suffers from some type of mental condition, and as an inability to discern between reality and fantasy is a main symptom of schizophrenia, I think that this is at least part of it.
But he just keeps banging on and actually discrediting the very movement and point of view which he seems to espouse.

Complacency does not equal complicity. Some people in government had prior warning that SOMETHING was just about to happen, and some people may well have known a little more detail than they let on. They may well have made a lot of money on the stock or futures market when the planes hit. But to say the buildings were demolished by explosive charges is plain stupid : they did not NEED to be. Terrorists did it FOR the owner or whoever benefited from having it conveniently done. And the planes almost sheared through them, pretty well guaranteeing a collapse.

Originally Posted by Latindancer

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Isn't a tad inconvenient that the planes manufacturer states that the plane couldn't fly at that speed at ground / sea level without breaking up.

EVENTUALLY.

Originally Posted by The Big Fella

Also the cameras might not have given a great picture of the plane but there is absolutely nothing that any way shape or form could be classed as evidence of a plane flying into the pentagon.

Except perhaps all the debris on the lawn (or was it spring-loaded to leap up out of pre-prepared pits ? ) plus the engine found inside, or.....etc etc.


By bringing up such silly points as the above, ENT is actually discrediting the entire movement which he claims to espouse. Stubblebine, indeed ! The man is now in his early 80s. He was in his late 70s when he started making such claims. He was eased out of the Army while was in his 50s because he was trying to walk through wall and train others to explode animal heads by staring at them.

Read some posts about him here : Maj. Gen. Albert Stubblebine - real or not? - JREF Forum

The way you persist in spouting lies is amazing!
"EVENTUALLY" indeed! WTF?

Airline debris? You mean all that carefully scattered clean, smoke free scrap that didn't leave any impact scouring or burn marks on the lawn?
And the engine that was too small? What happened to the other one? Did it vapourize?

a) I don'y claim to espouse any movement.
b) Stubblebine was not "eased out" of the army in his 50s
c) The US army directed him to do experimental psychological warfare.
Stubblebine could not in any way work in the army unless he was following orders, dumbo.

Then you waffle on about James Randi's views/website posts as if they're the ultimate authority on what's sane or not, a bit like your claim that "Popular Mechanics" explains perfectl;y how the WTC towers fell!


Nope, no airliner flew into the Pentagon.
The three WTC buildings and an explosion at Shanksville ALL sent seismic shock waves consistent with impact explosions, which were picked up by seismometers and recorded, ALL,...except the Pentagon explosions, which occurred above ground level, un-grounded, therefore no impact on the building structure (which is grounded through it's foundations), nor did an aircraft of any type impact the ground as no seismic shock wave indicating such was detected.

It was very embarrassing for the Pentagon, as wall and computer clocks stopped at different times around 9.30 am 9/11/01, so the Pentagon had to ask Palisades observatory to tell them the time that an"airliner"(?) flew into the place. They couldn't even get their own time pieces to agree,...what a fwkwp!!! and the only un-grounded seismic waves to reach and be recorded at the Palisades Observatory registered a different time altogether!

So no single grounded explosion occurred at the Pentagon as a result of an airliner crash, multiple small ones did, all above ground level, which is why all the clocks at the Pentagon that did stop that day stopped at different times.

Evidence to that effect is contained in this report below;

Seismic Observations during September 11, 2001, Terrorist Attack.

Won-Young Kim
Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory of Columbia University,
Palisades, N. Y. 10964, USA and

Gerald R. Baum
Environmental Geology and Mineral Resources Program,
Maryland Geological Survey
2300 St. Paul Street Baltimore, MD 21218, USA.

Summary

Since the time of plane impact at the Pentagon had often been reported with large scatter(*), the United States Army contacted us to inquire whether we could obtain an accurate time of the Pentagon attack on September 11, 2001 based upon our seismic network.

We analyzed seismic records from five stations in the northeastern United States, ranging from 63 to 350 km from the Pentagon. Despite detailed analysis of the data, we could not find a clear seismic signal. Even the closest station (Δ = 62.8 km) at Soldier's Delight, Baltimore County, Maryland (SDMD) did not record the impact.

We concluded that the plane impact to the Pentagon generated relatively-weak seismic signals.(**)

However, we positively identified seismic signals associated with United Airlines Flight 93 that crashed near Shanksville, Somerset County, Pennsylvania. The time of the plane crash was 10 : 06 : 05 ±5 (EDT)..

If the plane impact to the Pentagon generated strong enough ground motion that could be propagated through the Earth's crust as elastic waves (seismic waves) and recorded at sensitive seismographic stations around the source, we could determine absolute time of the impact by using the arrival times of P, S or surface seismic waves.

The accuracy of the measured time would depend upon the clarity and strength of the seismic wave arrivals and our knowledge of crustal structure between the source and seismographic stations. This method can provide accurate and absolute time of a seismic event, since most of the modern seismographic stations are equipped with GPS (Global Positioning System) satellite receivers that can provide absolute time usually within one thousandth of a second accuracy.

In case of the WTC attack, the impacts of the two planes could be determined with an accuracy of about ±2 seconds. Although the impact times are inferred from oscillatory surface wave arrivals, the nearest station, PAL (Palisades, NY), was only about 34 km away from the WTC.




Analysis of Seismic Records for Pentagon Attack

It was reported by the New York Times (B9, 10/06/2001) that at 09:36 (EDT) the crew of a military C-130 plane identified a Boeing 767 moving low and very fast, and that the plane crashed into the southwest side of the Pentagon at 09:38 (EDT).

We collected seismic records from all available seismographic stations in the Northeastern United States around the Pentagon (Table 1; Figure 1) in the hope of verifying or accurately pinpointing the time of impact.

Possible seismic signals from the airplane crash into the Pentagon may be very weak, but examination of seismic data recorded across network of three stations would help identify the signals.

Predicted P- and S-wave arrivals across the network are indicated by dotted lines for a presumed origin time of13:38:09 EDT.

There is no clear seismic signals which can be associated with the airplane crash into the Pentagon.




"United Airlines Flight 93 crash near Shanksville, Pa on Sept. 11, 2001. Short-period surface waves, Rg and Lg waves, are quite clear. Maximum zero-to-peak amplitudes on three-component ranges from 160 to 180 nm/s on NS-component.
This is typical for seismic waves generated by airplane impacts and crashes. .......we infer that the Flight 93 crashed around 14 : 06 : 05 (UTC) (10 : 06 ; 05 EDT)."



References
Kim, Won-Young, The ML scale in eastern North America, Bulletin of the Seismological Society of America, 88, 935-951, 1998.

Kim, Won-Young, L. R. Sykes, J. H. Armitage, J. K. Xie, K. H. Jacob, P. G. Richards, M. West,F. Waldhauser, J. Armbruster, L. Seeber, W. X. Du and A. Lerner-Lam, Seismic waves generated by aircraft impacts and building collapses at World Trade Center, New York City, Eos,Transactions, American Geophysical Union, Vol. 82, No. 47, pages 565, 570-571, November 20, 2001.

The above is an html-version of the following pdf-document:
http://www.mgs.md.gov/esic/publicati...11pentagon.pdf (local copy here).

For more see,
Lamont-Doherty Cooperative Seismographic Network

Report On Seismic Activity Due To The Aircraft Impact At The Pentagon.

(* large scatter = several points in time
** relatively weak seismic signals, thus inconsistent with an airliner crash.)