Thread: Syria: Not as important as Libya.

Robert Fisk: Syria's army remains defiant as it buries dead soldiers

By Robert Fisk
Wednesday, 26 October 2011

Sergeant Jassem Abdul-Raheem Shehadi and Private Ahmed Khalaf Adalli of the Syrian Army were sent to their graves yesterday with the send-off their families would have wished for; coffins draped with the Syrian flag, trumpets and drums and wreaths held by their comrades, and the presence of their commanding officer.

There was a Last Post, Chopin's funeral march – mixed with ululating staff at the Tishreen Hospital to which their remains had been transferred – and then the nine-hour journey by ambulance to their hometown, Raka. Shehadi was 19, Adalli was 20. And their uncles swore they had died for President Bashar al-Assad.

They were shot dead in Deraa – by snipers, according to their commanding officer, Major Walid Hatim. "By terrorists," he said several times. Assad's opponents might have no sympathy with these dead soldiers – nor Amnesty, nor Human Rights Watch, nor the United Nations, who say 3,000 civilians have been killed by Syrian security forces, nor the Americans, nor the British et al – but those two coffins suggested that there is more than one story to the Syrian Revolution.

Syrian officers told me yesterday that 1,150 soldiers have been killed in Syria in the past seven months, an extraordinary death toll for regular Syrian troops if correct. On Zawi mountain near Idlib, Major Hatim said, 30 Syrian soldiers had been killed in an ambush. Mazjera was the word he used. A massacre.

Shehadi and Adalli were based in Deraa, where the opposition to Assad began. Shehadi was there for six months, Adalli for four. It was a sign of the times that Major Hatim arrived at the Damascus funeral in civilian clothes. Why was he not wearing his uniform, I asked? "It is easier," he replied. Because of the dangers driving from Deraa? "Maybe," he replied. That, too, told its own story. Both the dead soldiers had lost their fathers years ago and their two uncles had travelled here from Raka to escort the bodies home. They were from poor families, they said. The boys and their uncles had been looking after their mothers.

Shehadi's uncle, Salim Abdullah, in a brown abaya and drawing heavily on a cigarette, was on the edge of tears. "My nephew had three brothers and two sisters, and they are very poor," he said. "His mother Arash will now have to be looked after by us. Those killers have killed the hope of our family. He was the youngest boy."

Behind Salim Shehadi, Syrian troops stood in full battledress as the coffins were brought from the hospital mortuary. All Syria's military dead leave from the gloomy portals of the Tishreen Hospital, a vast concrete building in the suburbs of Damascus. Even the ambulance driver prostrated himself in tears over his vehicle.

Syrian television had a crew at the hospital, along with the ever loyal Syrian Arab News Agency, but it was highly unusual for a foreign reporter to be invited to this ceremony, let alone to speak to Syrian officers. Major Hatim explained to me that the two soldiers were killed in a planned ambush; the sniper was firing from between two houses. There was a strange confluence in this description. Opponents of Assad often claim that it is they that are fired on by snipers using the cover of buildings.

But few people in Syria now doubt that, however peaceful – and yet bloody – the anti-government demonstrations in Homs and Hama are, the Syrian Army has become a major target. Needless to say, Major Hatim, a 25-year army veteran, was also a supporter of the President.

Hatim talked of Syria's "resistance" on the part of the Palestinians, that soldiers sometimes had to die for their country, that their enemy is Israel. There is much talk in Damascus of a "foreign hand" behind the killings in Syria, although the Major admitted that, in this case, "unfortunately the killers are Syrian".

But Salim Shehadi wanted to say more. "I hope you will be honest and tell the truth," he said. "Tell the truth about the killing of Syrian people. The hand of terrorists took my nephew. We are all ready to be martyred for Syria and for our President Assad." It sounded too pat, this little speech from a grieving man, and a reporter must ask if this was a set-up. Yet the military had only four minutes before I arrived for the funeral, and I doubt if they could have coaxed this poor man to say these words.

Perhaps, up in distant Raka, they believe these words of loyalty – Abdullah Hilmi, Adalli's uncle, an older man in a brown robe, said much the same – and certainly Major Hatim believed what he said. But what of those YouTube pictures, of the shooting of demonstrators and mourners at funerals – no danger of that at this funeral yesterday – and the 3,000 civilian dead of which the UN now talks?

I suppose that, until we Western journalists can investigate without government restrictions, it's a YouTube picture against the word of two poor men in peasants' clothes.

Read more: Robert Fisk: Syria's army remains defiant as it buries dead soldiers - Robert Fisk, Columnists - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

President Bashar al Assad is an Alawite, not a Sunnni. The Alawites are the dominate sect in the Syrian leadership, not Sunni.

Originally Posted by sues2

President Bashar al Assad is an Alawite, not a Sunnni. The Alawites are the dominate sect in the Syrian leadership, not Sunni.

Which bit are you correcting?

The protestors have called on the UN to implement a no fly zone like they did in Libya, cos the syrian army are murdering protestors.

Russia and China, big pals of assad will veto it.

Any oil in syria

Ahem, and Bahrain not as important as Syria (the list goes on...).

Originally Posted by LooseBowels

The protestors have called on the UN to implement a no fly zone like they did in Libya, cos the syrian army are murdering protestors.

Russia and China, big pals of assad will veto it.

Any oil in syria

I think the potential for thermonuclear war trumps the thirst for oil.

The Thais are murdering protestors too, are you going to get a left-wing lob-on over that too?

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

I think the potential for thermonuclear war trumps the thirst for oil.

Beyond sad.

What have we become.

Just as important! Lot's of infrastructure to bash up and repair and a vibrant economy to shock.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

At least 3,000 have died since the end of March and many more injured.

Have you any links to evidence of these alleged killings?

From the "report". http://www.amnesty.org/sites/impact....0592011eng.pdf

"One doctor employed at a state-run hospital in Damascus who has also assisted as a volunteer in makeshift field hospitals, told Amnesty International [see interview 2 method below]:

“At the early stage of the uprising, I treated some wounded people in field hospitals set up near sites of shootings, and referred them to government-run hospitals… They were all detained… and we all know that they’d be subjected to harsh torture… I cannot send them to torture.”

No direct evidence of torture, just hearsay. More propaganda from the crusader coalition.

Amnesty methodology of interviews with torture reportees:

"2 Skype interview conducted by Amnesty International on 2 September.
16 Skype interview conducted by Amnesty International on 5 September 2011.
17 Phone interview conducted by Amnesty International on 5 September 2011.
18 Phone interview conducted by Amnesty International on 22 September 2011.
19 This and other names given in quotation marks are not the real names of the persons
concerned.
20 Phone interview conducted by Amnesty International on 22 September 2011"

You know, and I know, that locations of telephone and skype "callers" can be faked. The identity of telephone and skype participants can be faked. As such the credibility, in a court, of such "evidence" should not be guaranteed..

And do you have any evidence that Amnesty are not being duped? I've seen some of the shit they post about Bahrain and most of it is nonsense.

Just as important! Lot's of infrastructure to bash up and repair and a vibrant economy to shock.

Unfortunately, with its location and demographics, Syria is a bit of a politicial plaything with Iran sending all manner of military goodies to prop up their mates, and Saudi and the rest of the GCC doubtless sending their own to their own pals.

The biggest beneficiary of regime change in Syria would be the Blue Suede Shoes, but on this one they can just sit back, watch and enjoy.

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

I think the potential for thermonuclear war trumps the thirst for oil.

Beyond sad.

What have we become.

Quite.... sad going on about "oil" and "legality" in conjunction with wars. People who are happy (in the name of human rights and moral excellence) to dispense lectures on consistency about which despots "our" countries attempt to unseat. Whilst being quite happy to holiday in and buy products from regimes with atrocious human rights records. A bit of honesty, consistency, and realpolitik about what can and can't happen wouldn't go amiss.

20 November 2011 Last updated at 05:40 GMT Share this page

Syria Baath Party in Damascus hit by rockets


At least two rocket-propelled grenades have hit the building of Syria's governing Baath Party in the capital Damascus, residents and activists say.
One witness said security forces had blocked off the square where the office is located, while smoke was seen rising from the building.
If confirmed, it would be the first such attack reported inside the capital since the uprising began in March.
It comes amid growing fears of civil war in Syria, after months of unrest.
Foreign journalists are unable to move around Syria freely, making it difficult to verify reports.

looks like Mossad ops are cranking up after Syria accepted that Arab league mission

Well this sounds awfully familiar.....

Bashar Assad Vows To Fight And Die For Syria


Last Updated: 6:28AM 20/11/2011

Gamal Fahnbulleh, Sky News reporter


Syria's President Bashar Assad has vowed to defend and die in his country if necessary, as anti-government protests continue.



Speaking to the Sunday Times, Mr Assad promised to crackdown on all opponents despite alienation from the international community.
He told the newspaper of a promise to personally fight and die to resist foreign forces.
"You have to ask who killed 800 officers, soldiers and policemen on the streets, so we are not talking about peaceful demonstrators, we are talking about militants," President Assad said.
His comments come as at least 14 people died in clashes between government troops and protesters. But President Assad remains defiant.
The interview comes just days before Foreign Secretary William Hague is due to meet with Syrian rebel leaders in London.
"Whenever you have militants you have killings so the role of the government is to fight the militants in order to restore stability and to protect the civilians," Mr Assad said.
"Not by leaving them to do what they want to do. This is our job and that's what we are doing."
Mr Assad has also accused the 22-member Arab League, which suspended Syria last week, of meddling in his country's affairs and creating a pretext for western intervention into Syria.
But he also accepts mistakes have been made but by individuals and not the state, and is adamant external forces are to blame for Syria's problems.
"We have to prevent militants from killing civilians and doing massacres in different places around Syria. We have to stop smuggling of armaments from outside Syria through the border of neighbouring countries," he said.
"We have to stop the money coming in to support the militants - again across the borders. That's what we have to do."
Mr Assad was speaking after the Free Syrian Army, which includes defectors from his own military, attacked an air force base in Damascus and killed 34 soldiers in an ambush in the south of the country.
As evidence mounts that Syria is sliding into full scale civil war, President Assad continued to defend his actions of trying to unify the country.
"I'm here to server the country, my country is not here to serve me. It's not about me it's about Syria. The problem is not about the President it's about the stability of Syria and how we can keep Syria unified," he said.
If the President is a factor in unifying the country he has to stay. If he's a factor of dividing the country he has to leave. This is the principle."
Mr Assad came to power at the age of 34 after his father's death in 2000.

The Alawites will fight to the death as they have no other option. Shit if I was armchair Dictator I would have been far more ruthless out of the gate. Assad has lost the initiative. He could have smashed this thing early with a massive and ruthless display of force just like his father did in the early eighties. It would have been backed by the Russians and the Chinks. He has failed. We will see his head soon enough.

Originally Posted by bsnub

The Alawites will fight to the death as they have no other option.

Bollocks. They've probably got several aircraft fueled and ready 24x7 for a short trip down the road to Tehran.

China insists Syria crisis be resolved under AL: FM spokesman

"BEIJING, Nov. 25 (Xinhua) -- China has again called for an immediate stop to violence in Syria and a resolution to the crisis under the Arab League (AL), a Foreign Ministry spokesman said Friday.

The Syrian crisis should be resolved under the AL, as this method is in accordance with the common interests of Syria, Arab countries and the international community as a whole, spokesman Liu Weimin said at a daily press briefing.

"China has paid close attention to the current situation in Syria and calls on Syria to initiate a tolerant and balanced political process to ease the situation," he said.

Liu said China expects the AL and Syria to strengthen their communication and coordination in order to properly resolve relevant issues from the perspective of the fundamental interests of the Syrian people as well as the peace and stability of the Middle East.

The international community should also provide help, he added.

AL foreign ministers on Thursday gave the Syrian government a 48-hour deadline to sign a protocol for an AL observers' mission to the country.

The AL said that if Syria refuses to sign the protocol, the Arab Economic and Social Council will convene on Saturday to discuss economic sanctions against Syria. "

PROVINCES, (SANA) –Massive youth, popular and civil crowds on Friday streamed into Saba Bahrat Square in the middle of Damascus city to express their rejection of the Arab League (AL) decision against Syria and commitment to the independence of national decision.

Similar massive gatherings were also held in al-Hijaz Square and Bab Touma Square in Damascus stressing the participants' keenness on consolidating national unity to confront the conspiracy targeting Syria.



DARAA, (SANA)_Johnson Miller, Head of the British media team who is on a visit to Syria, said that life in Daraa city is normal, adding that streets and markets are teeming with people and business proceeds as usual at shops.

During a tour in Daraa province on Thursday with a team from the British Channel 4 (ITN) and an editor at a Swedish newspaper, Miller said that situation in Daraa is quite normal, pledging to convey what he saw to the public opinion in his country.

"MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia, China and their partners in the BRICS group of emerging economies urged Syria to start talks with the opposition and warned against foreign intervention without U.N. backing, Russia said, ahead of an Arab League deadline to Damascus on Friday.

In a carefully worded statement after consultations on Thursday in Moscow, the five nations did not mention the Arab League threat to introduce sanctions over Syria's crackdown on protests if Damascus does not sign a deal to let monitors in.
The meeting brought together deputy foreign ministers from Russia and China, which last month vetoed a Western-drafted U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Syria's government, as well as Brazil, India and South Africa, which abstained.
They "underscored that the only acceptable scenario for resolving the internal crisis in Syria is the immediate start of peaceful talks with the participation of all sides, as the Arab League initiative says," the Foreign Ministry statement said.
"Any external intervention that does not correspond with the United Nations Charter must be ruled out."

France became the first major power to seek international intervention when it called this week for "humanitarian corridors" to alleviate civilian suffering.
The communique said the nations "placed a special accent on the role of (the U.N. Security Council), which holds primary responsibility for the support of international peace and security." The United Nations says 3,500 people have been killed in Syria since March in clashes between the authorities and pro-democracy protesters.
Former ally Turkey has joined other countries calling on President Bashar al-Assad to step down.

Russia has close ties to Syria, which has been a big buyer of Russian weapons and hosts a Russian naval maintenance facility on the Mediterranean, a rare outpost abroad for the Russian military. Moscow has been increasingly isolated in its support for Assad. It has urged his government to implement reforms faster, but has rejected pressure from Syrian opposition groups to call for his resignation and has accused Western nations of trying to set the stage for armed intervention.
Referring to the entire Middle East and North Africa region, the communique said BRICS nations noted "the need for the complete adherence to human rights by all sides, in particular the authorities, in regard to protecting unarmed civilians," but they laid no specific blame on any side in Syria."

Originally Posted by OhOh

It seems that the UN will standby and allow armed terrorists to take over a sovereign state, aided and abetted by the "virtual" western forces/arms/money.

sovereign state ???

OhOh Get real. There is no way the UN or NATO are going to get involved with an Arab country.

The only reason they did anything in Libya was with the tacit approval of its neighbours.

Besides which, and I've said it many times before, Syria falling would be a good thing. The Sunni taking over will counterbalance the mess Bush has made in Iraq, as well as neutering Hezbollah.

interesting development,

it seems that islamic fundamentalist dream is coming to reality, all thanks to Osama and Obama

Osama wanted an Islamic awakening and remove non-religious dictators in the region to pave the way for the dominance of a grand Islamic state all over the region

Obama with the CIA help is delivering that promise,

is it appeasement for the terrorists with the Pentagon doing all the dirty work so they can create a safe heaven for all those Islamics and leave America alone ?

that could be a new Tom Clancy best seller,