Update 2
OK.....we are back on track... hes poured the master bathroom floor.. photos to follow.
Making prep to do the rest of the 1st floor ring beam now.
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Update 2
OK.....we are back on track... hes poured the master bathroom floor.. photos to follow.
Making prep to do the rest of the 1st floor ring beam now.
Thank you Dennis4558 for response - we will catch up when we arrive permanently.
ooops... when I said he poured the master bathroom, that was of course not right... I meant he prepared it ready for pouring with he shuttering below (its obviously a little bit lower than the surrounding floor level.
Ring beam shuttering pix coming today . Hopefully he pours all the ring beam tomorrow...
Shuttering up the 1st floor ring beam ready to pour
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2018/03/154.jpg
Looks like its sitting on the floor, doesn't it!?
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2018/03/155.jpg
The Chonburi Hilton is starting to be overshadowed by TD Towers...
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Confirmation that the shutter is as deep as...that..
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2018/03/157.jpg
And again...
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That's the slab shutter for the bedroom 2 bathroom, and the upstairs WC.
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Sorted the balcony issue out and now we are 'good to go'...
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That's some nice -looking rebar mesh, complete with chairs
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Looking into the dining room in the foreground to the left, and the large open area under the living room on the right.
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Jeez... somebody call Health n Safety! I can see at least 5 violations, right there....
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Closer look at the shaded open area under the living room which will be above.
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Bring on the concrete..!!!
Looking good. Starting to resemble the stonehenge :)
Ha, that brings back memories, Norton. I used to drive past Stonehenge every week, on my way to the River Avon at West Amesbury - some of the best value chalk stream fly fishing in the UK.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
I was a member of the Salisbury and District Angling Club for ... wait for it.. 31 years.
Wonder how many rainbows, brownies and grayling fell to my flies in that time...?
I never counted, but I DO know that the 'one that got away' was.... this big.
(holds hands wide apart)
Great photos as they provide intricate detail of work in progress. Not being a builder nor any good with my hands, if I do not understand any word that you use I Google it to learn what action is taking place & why. Looking really good.
Thanks Radar... more pix of the pour coming, hopefully this afternoon.
I am at work, of course!
Not every week but several times on my way to visit a Brit mate in Devon. Beautiful area and the clotted cream the best. Good memories indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
Nice build so far, be interesting to see it progress. A couple of points that may (or not) be of interest, I thought I had covered most things, two things I wish i had thought about at the time was outside water around the house, easy to do before you have poured concrete, also outside electrical points, we put some in, every time I have to get an extension or go looking for a water hose wish I had put more in.
^Good point. I did this on my place but forgot to mention here.
Thanks AP2 and Norton... outside power, I thought of, but an outside tap. no.. forgot that one. see, I was planning to rainwter harvest but that will come a bit later. simple enough to get some sort of tap off that I suppose.
The whole water pressure, tank on stilts has sorta passed me by! I had no plan for a tank outside and up but maybe I should consider this?
Cant guarantee the 'mains' pressure - I learnt this through reading many of the other threads.. I better give this some thought...
Tank with pump at ground level plus sistern tanks inside and/or underground tank with float switch activation and central tank in the roof and/or out side tank with pump to get it up there and gravity fed into the house, or or or....
yes... bit more thought to the end game is required...
Plus I want to use the rainwater harvested water wherever possible.
If you remember, I talked about planning for the future when other houses surely come and there is added pressure on the water mains resource....
Pressure (sometimes zero) and water quality a problem in the village. I have outdoor faucets running off the main on back and side walls. Pressure and quality not a big issue as used mostly for garden and car washing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
For the house have underground tank with in from main and float valve, then to pump, then to filter, then to house. Tank size determined by reliability of main supply. Pump size by needed lift and number of faucets used in parrallel. I have faucets on right and left side of house as well.
You have a much bigger lot than I so maybe above ground tank ok for you. Water tower to my mind are ugly and never considered. Only advantage I can see is if you have power fail, you can shower in the dark. :)
As Airportwo points out, something to figure out now before concrete in place.
Interesting post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
So, your mains goes to your u/g tank then you pump it into the house through your filters etc, and then into...what?
A holding tank in the house somewhere?
I guess so or the pump would be kicking in every time anyone flushed a toilet or turned on a tap!
Assuming so, what in-house tank arrangements did you make?
^ Not sure how Nort's Tanks are set up ... but this is common.
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2018/03/14.jpg
https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2018/03/15.jpg
^ So the pump doesn't actually pump the water but, instead pressurises the holding tank.
So 'Flushing the Loo' will not turn the pump on ... it only kicks in when there is low air pressure in the holding tank.
Ahhhh... thanks David..
I see how this works now and no need for gravity system INSIDE the house. In fact , there might not be anything to gain with an in-house tank at all?
Mine may be a little more complicated eventually because I want to have a 2-line system using the rain harvesting for the toilet flushing and washing Machine.
I am still not sold on the idea of a bore hole and pump but of course we will consider all options!
But for now, I could take the mains feed into the tank arrangement you illustrate, and then using the tank pressure system, feed into the house outlets?
Seems straightforward, or did I misunderstand?
^ I'll defer to others for the questions you pose because, at the Farm, we still harvest the roof water to drink and
use the village trickle supply to wash clothes. We don't have a flush toilet, just the toilet pan, an urn and a saucepan.
We are very Thai :)
Indeed, we don't have 'mains' water as we know it in the West.
Just a trickle, unreliable and often not available.
If I have permission to speak freely?
I'm, by nature, pragmatic and practical.
What you are proposing 'a 2-line system using the rain harvesting for the toilet flushing and washing Machine'
is a brave decision the like of which I've not heard of being built in Thailand.
I think I can understand the environmental goals you are trying to achieve.
You could end up spending a heap of coin to achieve goals which are admirable in the West ... but they don't translate
into Thai.
If it was me, and it's not, I'd use a water line sourced from either a well or village (or both with non-return valves),
into a pressurised pump and feed everything off that line.
Drink bottled water or ... install a fancy filtration system in the kitchen for drinking/cooking water ... but I wouldn't bother.
I'd install solar panels if it was cost effective and the pay-off period was sub 7-10 years. I have them in the West and
they are great!
I doubt a solar HW system would ever have a pay-off period in less then 15 years ... so I wouldn't bother.
Gray water into the garden is a good idea, but that would depend on the soil type as the soil structure can get saturated
during the Rainy Season. Still a good idea though.
IMHO
Few days ago the water system was here discussed. I have contributed my "wisdom" with a simple sketch. Perhaps it can help.
An automatic pump can be bought at any hardware shop (ca. 5,000 B) e.g. Mitsubishi, keeping permanent pressure in the house system. It works properly, no headache for x years.
If collecting a rain water, it's advisable to lead it into separate tank(s). After 1- 2 days sedimentation - it always get a dirt from the roof - (the sedimentation can be improved by addition of a piece of SaanSom - Alum, a miraculous material easy available in every village in Thailand) the water can be added to the central storage tank, either by gravitation or by a small pump.
https://teakdoor.com/construction-in-...ml#post3728841
Supporting Davids input with my additional feedback FWIIW
Absolutely right. In the west we are driven to conserve even if the cost burden is on us. Weird. But to Davids point when we were building our place I tried to instill some things I had learned and used that worked great in the house built in the US. HOWEVER as David says, It just does not translate to Thai and the further you are removed from any city area the worse the translation becomes and sourcing the items you want can become expensive and problematicQuote:
Originally Posted by David48atTD
We use City water to fill holding tank and wash cars and other things. We have 2 wells and use well water to manage the property watering exclusively. We are next to the Wang river and the water table is shallow so we always have plenty of well water on tap. Our water line is at 6 meters. I would not rely on just city water depending on how far from the main station you are. We happen to be close and our water pressure from the city is always good but.....Quote:
Originally Posted by David48atTD
IMHO bottled water is a PITA unless its a delivery service where they are bringing 5 gallon containers that go on a water cooler. and you swap in and out. I would HIGHLY encourage you (If you go that route) to go check the place that bottles the water if local. Buying little bottled waters from TESCO or Makro is a build up of plastic bottles to save for reclaim and to make it worth the effort you need a holding area and then your yard looks like a recycle center.Quote:
Originally Posted by David48atTD
I have a few panels on car park area to run lights but have added numerous solar powered LED lights and they work outstanding. I LOVE Solar power. I could do a big bank on my car park but just do not want to invest. My PEA bill only averages 1000 bht in winter to 2500bht tops in summer. ROI is too long. If my PEA bill was 8000 and up a month it would be a different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by David48atTD
We have 2 septic tanks and a large gray water area. To Davids points again, Great if the soil is suitable. if not could be a ugly mess in rainy season. We did ours to my design like a leach field in the states. Hole in ground, rock in hole and pipe perforated to flow across the rock then it leaches into ground. Only downside is that like all Gray water/leach fields the ground usually becomes fertile and tree roots grow well and can plug the pipe. So where your gray water area is, Do not plant big trees. We have hedges covering our cement lid.Quote:
Originally Posted by David48atTD
One thing for certain, do not skimp. Build it the way you see it being and lasting for years of good living. I knew a few that skimped out and now are paying dearly for it. Sure its all fixable but if done right up front, you are good to go.
I would forget the gravity water system inside the house, I can see no point to it as well as it will be very low pressure (20' height is ~9 psi) further you have to use a pump to fill the tank, you can use the same amount of power and feed the house.
I like to be able to see where the water is and have the ability to easily clean out tanks, we have two tanks, one for well water and one for city water (city water tank is small, don't want water sitting too long breeding!) which is used for exactly that, flushing toilets and showering, the bill for city water is ~100 baht a month so is it worth using harvested rain water in the house? If you have a decent well, personally I would not bother harvesting rain water - too much hassle for too little payback, you would need huge tanks to make it worthwhile, when you add up the cost and the maintenance of same cant see it being worthwhile. Plumbing the house for separate systems, while easy enough, does unnecessarily complicate things - KISS!
Make sure you are going to be well covered for water, it makes day to day living so much simpler, I would keep house water and external water completely separate - if feasible? Investing a little more has a big pay back. (if done wisely!)
Wow.. a tonne of great input on this topic - I will try to answer all now.
Thanks everybody....
Where I was coming from...
yep... born and raised in UK. I am an environmentalist as part of my job so its 'in the blood' to try to do the right thing for the future. Conserve what we have for the future of mankind... etc etc
I love the idea of doing my bit with regards to Reduce, Re-use, Re-cycle, and water and electricity are the obvious targets.
Packaging waste, environmnetally-friendly products, locally sourced items, are all, basically, job-plus!
So I came with some great ideals for solar and solar heating, for reusing rainwater, and reducing energy use with the deployment of low energy lighting, efficient cooking, well insulated construction to reduce the use of AC... and to a degree much of this is on track, certainly on the power use side.
As has been pointed out, ROI in Thailand vastly differs to Europe or the middle east, and that puts a different view on what can realistically be achieved. I will still pursue all the plans I had for R-R-R but even I can see that it has to be economically viable too.
Then there is the future in my build area to think about... not yet, not now but... Im sure... soon, now that the farang has built his place!
OK... as it stands NOW... we have black and grey water separated, so linking the grey water supply to irrigation is totally viable. Any surplus to that will return to the soak-away attached to each septic system. Assuming those soakaways ever back-fill due to rain affecting the grounds ability to allow the soak-away to ... err... soak away, they are all linked to an overflow going to a drain field. and yes, good call... avoid any trees (and bamboo also) near that drain field.
Roof water harvesting was a separate project, which would require that clever device that discards the first flush of water (filled with dust), before tanking the rest. This project is to come but the guttering to catch the rain will be in place and so we will make that a future proof extension to anything we are doing now.
So, on the water side, that leaves the mains supply and the bore hole option, plus bought-in drinking water. We are buying drinking water now and as pointed out, its not expensive. I think that will continue short to medium term, but we will have a filtration system within the house footprint to filter borehole or rain collected water as well, again in the future. I saw the initial use of the rain harvesting as cancelling out mains water for the big use items - washing, toilets, maybe showers. Certainty the first two anyway.
If you can cast back in the thread we covered water systems before. Based on the rain fall analysis I did, it was 'possible' to be self-sufficient for toilets and washing with a 4000 Lit. tank - i.e not the biggest tank in the world, especially if it too was buried or partly buried. That is do-able I think, and would provide a long term solution to supply for the large use needs, and at the same time, fit with my goals for R-R-R.
I am not against the borehole option, I just wanted to see if I could do what I wanted without it.
We will investigate that, when I go back in May.
At current rates, solar electricity, whilst available, is just too long a payback. Maybe we will have a few panels over the garage covered area, for night lighting, etc . I think solar water heating though IS viable so that will also be looked into, to see where its best to use.
OK.. that's where I was coming from.!
Pump does kick on every time a faucet is opened. This is the way 99% of the homes in Thailand are set up. I have Mitsubishi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
https://www.mitsubishi-kyw.co.th/Pro...ater-Pump.aspx
David, thanks for your input - all very useful, and of course I am all-ears to someone already doing it, so to speak. I am typing this from an office in Dubai with no rain in sight!Quote:
Originally Posted by David48atTD
For all the systems I will start with, they will be designed to be added to, improved, or altered - I.e as future proof as I can
Grey water, we can agree on and I will push forward with this.
I hear what you say about the solar heating but Im keen to try it, on a small scale and low cost to start with and see if it can be scaled up, so no big outlay to do the testing.
I totally agree about the prohibitive ROI for solar power generation.
The water supply on the mains is currently not bad in terms of flow or pressure but I think I cannot rely on that for ever. I think it will be this water to stat with, through that pressure tank system you excellently illustrated as the starting point. Any secondary source can be added to the system from those pressure tanks, as the pipework in the house is the same.
Meantime, I will check into the bore hole option and have the rainwater harvesting as a longer term project in the future
Thanks again, really good input.
I am just re-reading your thread now, Klondyke!Quote:
Originally Posted by Klondyke
So..that pump replaces the need for the pressured tank?
if so... two options.
Quick question, why do we not fit cistern tanks in the roof void? A reasonable tank on a float switch would help regulate that pump action. Remember, a pump motor's start up current is, i think 6x its running draw when at speed ( feel free to correct me on this, i was doing a massive CT and meter project on very large motors so maybe these economics don't apply so much with small units).
Stopping / starting a motor repeatedly definitely wears it out quicker, though.
I doubt that it brings something, even if it works properly. You are getting everyday the dust on the roof even next day after the rain. And this is not much the dust from the road but a fine dust from the surrounding vegetation. Then, it get changed into a black mud that you will find at the bottom of the tank after one year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
The problem with the plastic tanks is that the drain opening (the lower one of the two) is just 1" and not really on the bottom level. Luckily, the water helps itself, it sediments very good and the dirt staying at the bottom does not influence much the outlet.
Hi JPPR2, thanks for the input and concurrence.Quote:
Originally Posted by JPPR2
I think I have gleaned all the elements of what is being suggested by you and he others.
That solar electric you are using - how many panels and what can you power from it? Do you have a battery bank to regulate the output? Did you consider solar heating too?
I am leaning more towards solar heating than power but I'm interested to know how you decided to do what you are doing...
The pump I have has pressure tank built it. None the less when a faucet is opened pressure drops rapidly and pump kicks on. I have had to replace it once in 13 years but very reliable. I would advise not having a separate pressure tank in house.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
The area you live in is far more developed than villages in the sticks. Perhaps consider a tank and pump as a backup which would be used only when you have no water on the main.
Bore hole is worth considering. I did not put one in because water table here has high salinity.
Fun, fun in the sticks where you basically have to create your own infrastructure.
Thanks AP2, appreciate the comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airportwo
Isn't the two tank system with borehole water and city water the same as a two tank system with rain harvested and city?
I do not (Yet) have any well / borehole. but I have checked rainfall records for the area and I believe its feasible. As mentioned elsewhere, I will investigate bore hole practicality when I go in May and we can make a better decision at that time.
You are right about getting a good supply and at this stage I am keeping all the options open until we can lean towards one or the other. We have time.
Hi Norton...Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
...any issues with reliability? did you have to replace it since the system was put in?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
ahh.. just saw this answer re. age of the pump!!.. I am answering in rotation!! thanks
This was one option I was talking about with the builder - I guess we will put it all to bed with I'm there in May.
Indeed. He will be your best source for local practices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thai Dhupp
Cistern in a roof void in a house with 3m high ceiling would be at a max height of say 8m, 8m x 1.42 (psi of water per m) = 11.37 psi at the lowest level of house, pump will not run at such a low pressure, so the hydrostatic will not influence pump is how I see it.
Starting and stopping a motor will obviously wear it out quicker, true - but I have never had the motor on a pump fail, the fluid end will fail long before the motor will, thats why they usually guarantee the motor and not the fluid side. Having a pressure vessel of some sort in the system will reduce the starting and stopping of the pump.
Solar water heater, to me is again hard to justify, the cost of the system would take a lifetime to recoup - if ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airportwo
... + 1
Cheers AP2... I got to consider everything but I hear where you are coming from!Quote:
Originally Posted by Airportwo
Let's see if I can make it work...
LOL... I'm sensing 'resistance'.....Quote:
Originally Posted by David48atTD
^ :)
It's difficult.
You have a dream, the coin plus a passion and drive to build/live according to principles which are admirable and aspirational https://teakdoor.com/images/imported/2018/04/102.gif
I'm a Greenie, but I'm an Economic Greenie. In other words, I'm saving the world in ways it makes economic sense
for me. A variation on think globally - act locally.
In the West, I have solar cells on the roof and an inverter. Only 1.5KW because I bought it 4 years ago and the scheme
wasn't explained very well. It has a feed-in tariff (the price I get for my electricity) is twice the price that you buy the
electricity for from the generating company.
But that tarriff is no longer is available to new installations, so I can't upgrade.
I'd cover my western roofline with additional panels in a heartbeat as the panels have the added benefit, IMO of reducing
the amount of heating of the roof tiles, thus the roof cavity. Passive solar cooling :)
I have a thermostatically controlled roof vent. It comes on when the temperature reaches a predetermined mark.
Saves power and keeps us a little cooler.
We harvest rain water for the garden. There is a hole in one of the downpipes and I stick a big bucket under it.
Then use it to water the garden. I pull the plug from the kids bath and see that valuable resource go down the
drain hole and think ... what a waste.
In the West and in Thailand we drive an LPG car.
We grow our own veges. It's cheaper, teaches the kids and, of course ... lower average food miles.
We compost because our soil is very sandy and the added nutrients and water holding capacity is needed.
We have an electric lawn mower.
The list is endless.
I have Scottish lineage, plus my Dad lived through the depression, my Mum came from a Farm (so did Dad) ...
accordingly we were taught not to waste ANYTHING, especially money :)
We translate little of that to Thailand. It would be to expensive. It's expensive because the utilities cost little and
the infrastructure costs a packet.
---
At the end of the day, it's your build. Your Dream.
It's a great thread to read and contribute to and you do an excellent job populating it with images and anecdotes.
We can just contribute some of the information gap that we have gained by living here.
What size pump do you use? Any recommendations. I see they say on their website that even the smallest pump can be used for 2 floors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton
I am leaning more towards solar heating than power but I'm interested to know how you decided to do what you are doing...
TD I'm very interested in what you find out on solar water heating, my wife has already said she want hot water in both kitchens plus bathrooms. I know it is somewhat spendy but with a little shopping may find something somewhat reasonable. I think the ones with the big tanks on the roof look ugly but others with solar panel on roof and tank located somewhere in the house would be a good option.
Others may disagree :)
I have a Solar unit on the roof of our house and it has been working flawlessly for over 15 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airportwo
Services 6 bathrooms and two kitchens and you could almost boil an egg in the hot water produced and the gravity feed gives great pressure.
The only problem I have found is after 2 days of overcast weather the unit cannot recover quick enough to maintain hot water.
Manufactured in Thailand and did not cost a fortune, from memory around 40,000 baht.