Thread: koran, allah, and all things islam

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by keda

Worthy Christian News

worthy christian news?

never heard of it before, so i took a look at their website....


Worthy News is becoming a Christian News Agency reporting on key developments in a rapidly changing world, with Christian news angles not covered by other outlets, and related stories impacting the Church.

No credibility at all, since it is clearly not an fundamentalist Islamic website, right, scarey?

Ok you're doing well, now back in yer box.

Danish Psychologist: ?Integration of Muslims in Western Societies is not possible? | EuropeNews


Nicolai Sennels: ?The one thing Muslim immigrants fear is being deported.? - The German Review of Books


Interesting articles written by: Nicolai Sennels, 33 years old, is a psychologist and has worked for the Copenhagen authorities for several years. From 2005 to 2008 he worked at the Sønderbro youth prison in Copenhagen

Troubling ...

More than 35 percent of Egyptians and Saudis interviewed in a recent survey considered it their duty to back regional mujahedin financially, a scholar notes.

Funding for jihad troubling, scholar says - UPI.com

Did islam lead to sexual frustration among men harassing women ?

Harassment across Arab world drives women inside - Yahoo! News

Should bury the whole rigamarole deep underground. They are truly mad.

UK fails to halt female genital mutilation

Girls are still at risk this Christmas as 'cutters' are flown in from abroad to perform the illegal procedure here

Hundreds of British schoolgirls are facing the terrifying prospect of female genital mutilation (FGM) over the Christmas holidays as experts warn the practice continues to flourish across the country. Parents typically take their daughters back to their country of origin for FGM during school holidays, but The Independent on Sunday has been told that "cutters" are being flown to the UK to carry out the mutilation at "parties" involving up to 20 girls to save money.

The police face growing criticism for failing to prosecute a single person for carrying out FGM in 25 years; new legislation from 2003 which prohibits taking a girl overseas for FGM has also failed to secure a conviction.

Experts say the lack of convictions, combined with the Government's failure to invest enough money in education and prevention strategies, mean the practice continues to thrive. Knowledge of the health risks and of the legislation remains patchy among practising communities, while beliefs about the supposed benefits for girls remain firm, according to research by the Foundation for Women's Health, Research and Development (Forward).

As a result, specialist doctors and midwives are struggling to cope with increasing numbers of women suffering from long-term health problems, including complications during pregnancy and childbirth.

Campaigners are urging ministers to take co-ordinated steps to work with communities here and overseas to change deep-seated cultural attitudes and stamp out this extreme form of violence against women.

The author and life peer Ruth Rendell, who has campaigned against FGM for 10 years, said: "When I helped take the Bill through Parliament seven years ago, I was very hopeful that we'd get convictions and that would then act as a deterrent for other people. But that has never happened and my heart bleeds for these girls. This mutilation is forever; nothing can be done to restore the clitoris, and that is just very sad for them. I have repeatedly asked questions of ministers from all departments about why there has never been a prosecution and why we still do not have a register of cases. But while they are always very sympathetic, nothing ever seems to get done. Teachers must not be squeamish and must talk to their girls so we can try and prevent it from happening."

FGM is classified into four types, of varying severity; type 3 is the most mutilating and involves total removal of the clitoris, labia and a narrowing of the whole vagina.

An estimated 70,000 women living in the UK have undergone FGM, and 20,000 girls remain at risk, according to Forward. The practice is common in 28 African countries, including Somalia, Sudan and Nigeria, as well as some Middle Eastern and Asian countries such as Malaysia and Yemen. It is generally considered to be an essential rite of passage to suppress sexual pleasure, preserve girls' purity and cleanliness, and is necessary for marriage in many communities even now. It has no religious significance.

The most common age for the procedure is between eight and 11 but it can be carried out just after birth or just before marriage. It carries the risk of death from bleeding or tetanus, and long-term problems include urinary incontinence, recurrent infections and chronic pain. Reversal procedures are necessary in order to avoid major problems for a woman and baby during childbirth.

In the UK, some women have to travel hundreds of miles to one of 15 specialist clinics because services and training are so patchy. There are no specialist clinics at all in Scotland, or Wales, and student doctors, midwives and social workers are not routinely taught to recognise or deal with FGM.

A DVD, paid for by Baroness Rendell, which shows health workers how to reverse FGM will be launched in January. She hopes the next generation of health professionals will be better equipped to help affected women, many of whom suffer from long-term psychological effects such as flashbacks, anxiety and nightmares.

Amina, 55, originally from Somalia, underwent type 3 FGM, with no anaesthetic, when she was 11. One of the lucky ones, she suffered no long-term physical health problems but still carries psychological scars.

She has been vilified by practising communities for campaigning against FGM and for refusing to allow four of her daughters to be mutilated; the fifth suffered the procedure while in the care of her grandmother. The government funding that allowed Amina to work with families in Yorkshire, going door to door, to schools and community centres, talking about legal and health risks, ran out in March.

The Somali model Waris Dirie was mutilated at the age of five. She set up the Waris Dirie Foundation in 2002 to help eradicate FGM. She said: "I am worried about the situation in Europe and the US, as FGM seems to be on the rise in these places. In the 21st century, a crime this cruel should not be accepted in a society as developed as England. No one can undo the trauma that is caused by this horrible crime; it stays in your head for ever. So what we should focus on is that there won't be another victim."

Jackie Mathers, a nurse from the Bristol Safeguarding Children Board, said: "These families do not do this out of spite or hatred; they believe this will give their daughters the best opportunities in life. We would like a conviction, not against the parents, but against a cutter, someone who makes a living from this. We have anecdotal information that the credit crunch means people can't go home, so they're getting cutters over for 'FGM parties'. It is hard for people to speak out because they are from communities that are already vilified as asylum seekers, so to stand up against their communities is to risk being ostracised. But we have to empower girls and women to address this, along with teachers, school nurses and social workers. We can't ignore it; it is mutilation."

A Home Office spokesman said: "We have appointed an FGM co-ordinator to drive forward a co-ordinated government response to this appalling crime and make recommendations for future work."


UK fails to halt female genital mutilation - Home News, UK - The Independent

Revolting Islamic customs are in the UK and growing. Thousands of young girls in the UK have already suffered this particular accident of birth into the evil ideology known as Islam. Meanwhile, our gutless leaders spout no end of rhetoric that they're doing all they can to curb these barbaric practices on Brit soil.

Naturally, the parents and their hired shaitans should have all of their human rights meticulously observed, though despite this it should still be possible to charge those that arrange and commit these atrocities upon defenceless children. After all, the UK is not yet fully dhimmitised.

What would happen to an infidel that committed this atrocity against young girls? Would he receive counselling, or a grant to help educate him it is wrong and not acceptable in a civilised society? My guess is he'd be awarded a stiff term in prison and end up as Bubba's biatch.

Anyway, isn't a clitorectomy the highest insult to Allah, who after all is supposed to be per-fect? Is Islam taking the piss? Doesn't it stink something rotten when Muslims need to correct the flawed design of their perf-fect moon god in the creation of females, to ensure their girls do not enjoy sex? I imagine if Allah did not want females to enjoy sex he could have built them differently and without permission from his insecure following.

Where are our feminazis? They swarm through the streets in protest at real and perceived injustice against Western women in the West, yet bolt for cover the moment Islam enters with a scalpel to mutilate young females, both in their own backward countries and in the West. Shouldn't the feminazis be demanding equality, so that Muslim males also enjoy this barbaric custom? Make it law, enforce it, and the barbaric custom would sink into the cesspit of Islamic history.

Is clitorectomy on a young girl against her human rights? It seems human rights activists enjoy the same tactical expedience of their feminazi counterparts, to make noise only when it suits them.

Do Islam and human rights belong in the same sentence?

How many "moderate" Islamic organisations have so far condemned this vile practice?

Is Islam compatible with Western democratic values?

One of the most vile practices going I'd say. It horrifies me this even exists.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

One of the most vile practices going I'd say. It horrifies me this even exists.

I agree, utterly bizarre. Some might compare male circumcision I suppose, but that at least can serve a legitimate medical purpose.

Originally Posted by keda

How many "moderate" Islamic organisations have so far condemned this vile practice?

Why does moderate attract quotation marks? FYI... :

Eboo Patel wrote a good article for On Faith of the Washington Post about Islamophobia. His main point is this: whenever he or other so-called moderate Muslims speak out about terrorism, condemn it, and preach a peaceful form of Islam (by pointing out that Islam has a peaceful tradition and a theology that encourages religious pluralism), non-Muslims have only two questions for them. "Why don’t Muslims condemn terrorism?" And, "Where are the moderate Muslim voices?"

This also happened when he appeared on a radio show. He spoke for over 30 minutes "about many of my Muslim heroes, scholars and activists like Shaykh Hamza Yusuf and Imam Zaid Shakir who have articulated visions of a world where people from different backgrounds come together in positive ways. I described my book, Acts of Faith, which tells my story of how the discovery of my Muslim identity inspired me to start the Interfaith Youth Core."

Then someone called in. "Why don’t Muslims condemn terrorism? And where are the moderate Muslim voices?" this person asked Eboo.

Another caller said: "I was raised a Catholic and we were taught love and acceptance. You were raised a Muslim … and you were taught hatred which leads to violence."

Eboo’s reaction:

I answered each question pretty directly. I effectively said there are many moderate Muslim voices. You just heard one of them – mine – speak for about thirty minutes. Instead of continuing to ask that question, please tell your friends about me. I cited several other such voices.

I expanded on many of the points that I had made in the initial conversation with Marty Moss-Coane – that the dominant ethos of Islam tends towards compassion and pluralism, values that Islam shares with other traditions.

So, he was friendly and answered their questions. But, inside his head he was frustrated. He wondered: "Don’t you feel a little embarrassed revealing that level of ignorance and bigotry on Public Radio? Do you know nothing more about the religion of one-fifth of humankind for over 1000 years but the violent bits? Isn’t that a little like knowing nothing more about the United States Constitution than the clause which states black people only count as three-fifths of a human being."

He didn’t say that, of course, but he thought it.

And, I think, he’s exactly right. I too notice that whenever Muslims condemn terrorism and preach a peaceful and tolerant version of Islam, they are - quite simply - ignored. In the blogosphere we have Ali Eteraz. A ‘moderate Muslim’ who writes about Islam almost constantly. Yet, conservative bloggers constantly ask "where are the so-called moderates?"

Well, how about Ali?

How about Eboo?

Eboo points out that there’s a long list of Muslim leaders who "have very publicly condemned terrorism." In that regard, it’s also important to check out the "Not in the name of Islam" campaign. At this moment, more than 700,000 Muslims have signed it.

Why are these Muslims ignored?

As far as I can tell, there’s only one reason. People don’t care. People don’t care about ‘moderate Muslims.’ It’s much easier to believe that all Muslims support terrorism. That Islam is bad. That Islam is evil. That Islam is inherently violent. It’s just so much easier to think like this, and to give in to the prejudices existing in Western countries for many centuries, than it is to think for oneself and to understand Islam’s rich, tolerant and peaceful history and tradition.

They want an enemy, a very clear enemy, they don’t want nuance, because that makes life much more simple.

Ikhwanweb :: The Muslim Brotherhood Official English Website

You might just as well ask where is the condemnation coming from "moderate" Catholics over child abuse or "moderate" Jews over killing of Palestinian civilians.

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

One of the most vile practices going I'd say. It horrifies me this even exists.

I agree, utterly bizarre. Some might compare male circumcision I suppose, but that at least can serve a legitimate medical purpose.

Originally Posted by keda

How many "moderate" Islamic organisations have so far condemned this vile practice?

Why does moderate attract quotation marks? FYI... :

CAIR is regarded as moderate by the US admin, though some officials are beginning to wake up even against pc structures. Many people see the Taliban as moderate, while others see as moderate any person/group that doesn't overtly support the jihad. Each to his own. For me a moderate is the types of Muslim I know that are as horrified at the daily atrocities as they are at those that associate them with a supposedly Merciful & Compassionate Allah.

Most telling is that they speak openly only in their trusted circle, and would not dare to voice them in public for fear of retribution. It doesn't need to be mentioned except perhaps on TD, that I probably do not know every moderate Muslim on the planet and that there are more.

Originally Posted by keda

Most telling is that they speak openly only in their trusted circle, and would not dare to voice them in public for fear of retribution. It doesn't need to be mentioned except perhaps on TD, that I probably do not know every moderate Muslim on the planet and that there are more.

Nor any of the 700,000 or so that have signed the 'Not In the Name Of' petition either apparently.

I think the article above makes a valid point; the voice of moderate Muslims is simply ignored.

Hundreds to worship outside churches amid tight security

Fifteen police officers backed up by soldiers and local residents will guard every church across West Java during Christmas celebrations to prevent possible attacks, police said.

Dozens of churches in the province have closed since 2004 after being stormed or attacked by hard-line Muslim mobs. In 2000, militants bombed churches across the archipelago on Christmas Eve.

This week in Bandung, West Java, many Christians won't be able to celebrate Christmas in a church because they were denied permits to build their places of worship.

West Java Church Federation (BKSG) leader John Simon Timorason said Wednesday the biggest obstacle was applying for a building permit to build a church, so local Christians eventually opted to hold Christmas prayers in shopping malls, hotels, restaurants, shops and homes.

He said more than 60 percent of the 1,920 churches in West Java were built without permits because of difficulties in obtaining permits. Only 15 percent of churches have permanent buildings and have permits.

"We face difficulties obtaining permits. Those equipped with permits, such as the churches in Purwakarta, Bekasi and Depok, had their permits revoked due to pressure from intolerant groups," Simon told The Jakarta Post.

Last year, 77 families from the Pasundan Christian Church in Dayeuhkolot, Bandung, who were holding prayers at their preacher's house were evicted by a mob.

Church caretaker Ranto Gunawan Simamora said, fearing violence, they had to hold mass in a chapel at the Immanuel Hospital on Jl. Kopo, Bandung.

West Java Police chief Insp. Gen. Timur Pradopo said more than 10,000 personnel would provide security for Christmas mass in churches and other locations throughout the province.

Timur said the police would also secure public places, such as shopping malls, hotels and tourist sites as part of Operation Lilin-Lodaya that starts Dec. 24 and runs for 10 days.

In Semarang, Central Java Police chief Insp. Gen. Alex Bambang Riatmojo said more than 11,000 police personnel, 1,246 military soldiers, 990 public order police officers, 907 transportation agency officials and 604 health agency officials would provide security for the Christmas and New Year holidays in the province.

"We will ensure safety at every church as well as public places and tourist sites. We want Christians to celebrate Christmas this year in a solemn and peaceful manner," he said.

Alex said he would not tolerate those looking to incite violence.

To thwart the possibility of terror threats, Alex urged members of the public to also maintain security by reporting to police any suspicious activities in their neighborhood.

"The police cannot work alone. We need help from the community," he said.


Hundreds to worship outside churches amid tight security | The Jakarta Post

Much the same is happening in so-called moderate Islamic countries, such as Turkey and Egypt, though we shouldn't blame governments for those who misunderstand Islam's message of peace and religious tolerance.

Now that the Indo authorities are aware that there is a problem, it's some comfort that they will ensure safety at every church as well as public places and tourist sites, so that Christians can celebrate Christmas in a solemn and peaceful manner.

After Christmas, well that's another matter.

It's a bit naive to expect the same level of tolerance as we have from some backward shithole like Indonesia,

Building a church in a muslim country or in the middle of a war zone is always risky,

Very relevant to all things Islam, so reposted from the Swiss minaret ban thread.

It's to do with the fundamentalist principle of group identity. All members of a group become just as guilty as any member of the group that insults or offends Islam, or a Muslim, since an offence against a Muslim is an offence against Islam. In other words, you as an infidel offend a Muslim, and that makes me as another infidel that doesn't even know you exist, just as guilty.

If you think that's a bit harsh, since crimes against Islam can only be dispensed under special circumstances which involve penitence and compensation for each individual offence, upon commission of a single offence against Islam (or a Muslim), whether real, imagined or contrived, all members of the offending group or community, or country, may be punished at any time in any place and in any manner by any Muslim.

Consider the implications.

Otoh, Islam offers Muslims immunity from prosecution for the vilest offences they commit against Islam, where those offences are committed with intent to benefit Islam or harm the unbeliever, which is one and the same. In other words, a Muslim in a mosque may eat pork, get drunk, commit a homosexual act and jizz on an (illegal) image of Mohamed whilst reviling the Koran, and if this is part of his deceit against the unbeliever for later gain to Islam (or loss to the infidel) he will be not just forgiven but rewarded with a ticket to eternal bliss.

A mild example of this principle was given in the movie Traitor, when the main character refused to toast with a glass of wine, and was prompted by his Paki cell leader that part of their deception is to be seen to be like the unbeliever.

As the article points out, there are several different kinds of FGM. The vast majority of FGM as practised is more benign than MGM or circumcision- less painful and traumatic, less chance of death or serious infection as a result.

The barbaric type is mainly practised in the Horn of Africa- Ethopia & Somalia. It should definitely be eradicated. To often though, when I read about 'barbaric' FGM this differentiation is not made- so people are condemning All FGM. To be consistent in this viewpoint, they would also have to condemn male circumcision.

A Sorrowful Christmas In the Islamic World

Christians in the Iraqi city have opted not to celebrate Christmas this year, since Ashura, a major Shi'ite day of mourning, falls on the same day. So out of "respect" for the local Shi'ites, Chaldean Catholic Bishop Imad Al Banna asked all Christians in Basra not to engage in any public celebration of Christmas, and not even to entertain guests or show any joy in the day.

Would Shi'ites curtail one of their celebrations to show similar "respect" to the Christians? Would they mute their joy on Eid al-Fitr if it began on Good Friday? And what would happen to these Christians if they failed to show this “respect”?

Meanwhile, Christians are still streaming out of Iraq in such large numbers that the ancient Christian community is on the verge of extinction. Islamic jihadists last week attacked churches and Christian schools in Mosul, with forty people killed in bomb attacks and random Christians targeted for violence on the streets. This is after jihadist violence late last year killed forty and drove 12,000 Christians from the area. "It is terrible," one Mosul Christian told the Times of London: : "Most of the Christians are staying at home, or when they go out they watch their backs." A member of another religious minority, the Yazidis, who lives in a Christian village remarked: "You cannot live in Mosul. Every day you find Christians being killed. Very few are still going to church. The women have to wear hijabs. They send someone first in a car to check if there is someone outside the church."


And in Egypt, Christian Solidarity International and the Coptic Foundation for Human Rights released a new report detailing rampant abuse of Christian women by Muslims: "Cases of abduction, forced conversion and marriage are usually accompanied by acts of violence which include rape, beatings, deprivation of food and other forms of physical and mental abuse." John Eibner of Christian Solidarity International wrote a letter to Barack Obama about the treatment of Christian women, asking him to speak out and noting: "Trafficking of Christian women in Egypt is not a new phenomenon....But this problem has now reached boiling point within Egypt's Coptic community, which views it as symptomatic of a much broader pattern of religious persecution." But Obama, busy courting the good will of the Islamic world, is unlikely to say anything. And meanwhile, the State Department’s 2009 report on international religious freedom noted that the Egyptian government often turns a blind eye to crimes committed against Copts -- and government officials have on occasion even participated in those crimes.

The Christians in Turkey are facing a similarly somber Christmas. "We are treated," said the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, "as citizens of second class. We don't feel that we enjoy our full rights as Turkish citizens." Yet "we prefer to stay here, even crucified sometimes."

From where does the Islamic animus toward Christians come? Certainly Islamic jihadists despise Christians based on Koranic imperatives -- verses that say that those who "call Christ the son of Allah" are under "Allah's curse" (9:30), and that command Muslims to "fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day...(even if they are) of the People of the Book" -- that is, primarily Jews and Christians (9:29). Islamic apologists in the West assure non-Muslims that Muslims do not take such passages literally today, yet the daily news contradicts them. Muslims in far too many areas of the world are growing increasingly less tolerant toward their non-Muslim neighbors.

These incidents have received only scant attention in the mainstream media. And not only the international media, but also the human rights establishment and the United Nations, continue to take no notice. In their conceptual framework, only Westerners can do evil, and Christians cannot possibly play the role of victim.

The sooner the world casts off these Leftist/jihadist fantasies, the better off we'll all be - not just Christians. But this Christmas, in the meantime, will for Christians in Islamic lands be one of the saddest ever.

A Sorrowful Christmas In the Islamic World - HUMAN EVENTS


This is relevant to other recent posts/threads concerning the life of dhimmis under the peaceful and tolerant rule of Islam.

No surprise that the Zionist controlled rightwing mainstream media are too preoccupied to give this and other atrocities against non-believers the attention they deserve.

Meanwhile, Christmas traditions and festivities are also offensive to Muslims in the West...and guess what? - here too they are gradually and progressively imposing on the infidel.


One consolation is that the obstructive and disruptive on this board will at least read this and other posts that are less than complimentary to Islam, and scrutinise them, searching for a word or a term they can attack whilst ignoring the material content. They may even express outrage that one could consider value in this very type of paragraph. Never mind, at least in time some slivers of truth may stick in blinkered little minds.

I hope you all had a Merry Christmas.

Originally Posted by sabang

As the article points out, there are several different kinds of FGM. The vast majority of FGM as practised is more benign than MGM or circumcision- less painful and traumatic, less chance of death or serious infection as a result.

The barbaric type is mainly practised in the Horn of Africa- Ethopia & Somalia. It should definitely be eradicated. To often though, when I read about 'barbaric' FGM this differentiation is not made- so people are condemning All FGM. To be consistent in this viewpoint, they would also have to condemn male circumcision.

You've described as barbaric FGM type-3 that's practiced 'mainly' in parts of Africa. Still, it's also the most likely of the 4 types of FGM to permanently maim or kill, and one could be forgiven for suspecting it is also practiced in London, Paris and New York, if said Africans happen to be in those places. It should be outlawed but can't see that happen anytime soon, since gutless Western leaders know what not to mess with.

Of the other 3 forms of FGM, let's allow as you say, that one is benign and the equivalent of male circumcision, which we know has positive medical value. Not sure I'd agree with this at all but I'm no expert, though in this case it makes sense to call it female circumcision. Since male circumcision is an accepted practice, no way would those in favour of the practice on females miss the opportunity to call it female circumcision, which sounds as benign and would not be perceived as a barbaric form of mutilation. Then we could leave the experts to argue on medical merits if any, while the term quietly ingrains into lay people as the female equivalent of male circumcision. Just a guess.

Even with that concession, it still leaves us with the other two types of FGM which are deemed barbaric by the 'experts'. Certain others may bleat foul, since experts have been wrong in the past, but this is a common, old and worn tactic that never fails to impress, them. For now, without knowing better, it's reasonable to go along with those paid to know.

So, of the 4 types of FGM, 3 are barbaric and one may possibly become accepted, if it is spun correctly.

As figures are unreliable, everyone could spout their own from their preferred sources, but this will leave us no closer to the true number of Muslim girls being mutilated with impunity, in the West, beyond educated guesswork, hearsay and A&E records.

You answered me question, keda?

Originally Posted by machangezi

Originally Posted by keda

Dogs are unclean, to Islam.

Ignorance or lack of education? You tell me keda, please. Now here's a simple question for you to answer, "do you disagree that dogs are unclean in general regardless of what Islam says?". For a while, if that helps your mind to function properly, think of me as a sodding anti Mohammed chap.

Dogs are unclean as are other animals including people, the difference being that most of us clean ourselves to standards acceptable to humans, while animals don't. Nothing religious about that. I reckon cows are much dirtier than dogs and would not allow one in my home, but I still eat them as do most non-Hindu meat eaters.

Not sure if dogs are unclean to Jews, though as a dog person in the UK most of the Jews and Muslims I knew had dogs and would not consider giving them up in order to please someone closer to their god.

Meanwhile, pigs are unclean to pious Jews and Muslims, but clean enough to burn and eat by most other religions.


I recall the gist of exchanges a while back, when you mentioned that you're a dog owner/lover. I or someone else pointed out that aside from guide and other utility dogs, Islam deems them unclean as pets. You were or seemed unsure, so someone provided a link to a respected Islamic source, and then suggested that you as a good Muslim get rid of yours. You responded to the effect that you are your own person, Islam has no say in this part of your life, and that you would do or say naughty things to anyone (imams included) that told you to get rid of yours. I had and have no problem with that, though am still unclear what your point was in posing your question with a later reminder.

So, what is your point?

Originally Posted by keda

You responded to the effect that you are your own person, Islam has no say in this part of your life, and that you would do or say naughty things to anyone (imams included) that told you to get rid of yours. I had and have no problem with that

Are you in some sort of competition to make the most pompous post of the year? Who on earth do you think will care what you think about their pets?

FFS, get a grip dude..

Originally Posted by keda

So, of the 4 types of FGM, 3 are barbaric

Not quite- what I'm saying is, compared to MGM, Type 1 & 2 are less 'barbaric', or put more neutrally traumatic. Type 4 is a cover-all for other types of FGM, most of which seem to be associated with tribal stuff- some I would deem barbaric, not all. Type 3 absolutely is, to my way of thinking, but theres a further wrinkle- there is more than one form of Type 3 FGM! And that which is practised in the Horn of Africa is the most traumatic- simply put, it removes the most flesh.

Incidentally-
"The traditional cultural practices of FGC predate Christianity and Islam."

and-
Kanki et al. (1992) reported that, in Senegalese prostitutes, women who had undergone FGC had a significantly decreased risk of HIV-2 infection when compared to those who had not

Stallings et al. (2009) reported that, in Tanzanian women, the risk of HIV among women who had undergone FGC was roughly half that of women who had not; the association remained significant after adjusting for region, household wealth, age, lifetime partners, union status, and recent ulcer. The authors, who expressed surprise at their finding, concluded that the association was due to confounding due to a further, unknown factor.

Female genital cutting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So it seems that advocates of FGM can take a similar tack to advocates of MGM, namely it helps reduce the incidence of HIV.

FrontPage Magazine - Islam-Speak

Islam-Speak
By: Henry Kadoch


It has become very clear that in the West, we have a fundamental misunderstanding of Islam. Its history, guiding principles, and more importantly, what it means to a Muslim when he uses certain terms.
In order to understand what Muslims mean when they use a certain word, we must remember that in their minds and cultures, certain words do not mean anything like the accepted meaning we have for them in the West.

For Muslims, the meaning of any word is very closely related to the traditional meaning of that word in the Koran and their other holy texts. Unlike most of us with the Bible, for a Muslim the Koran is not just a prayer book, it is the complete guide to his life, and the absolute guiding principle for the world, and all who reside in it, religious and political.

Because of this, we in the West are often dumbfounded by their words vs. their actions, because for us the words mean one thing, and for them they mean something entirely different. They are thus able to manipulate the uneducated listener into believing they agree, when in fact for the most part, they do not agree.

Here then, is a short guide to real meaning of certain key words, when used by a Muslim.

An Islam-speak glossary:

Peace - The state of cessation of all resistance to Islam. Peace only exists when Islam rules politically and religiously, and all Islamic principles are established as the law of the land.

Freedom – Freedom exists when Islam and its principles attain complete dominance and constitute the entirety of religious belief and political rule.

Justice – The state when Sharia law is the law of the land, and all judicial decisions are based on it and it alone. Justice exists when non-Muslims have no standing before a court, and when the testimony of two Muslim women is equal to that of one Muslim man.

Equality – Equality is achieved when Muslims are the only leaders of society, and are given their rightful place as the best of men, leading all institutions, political and religious. This does not extend to non-Muslims or apostates.

Tolerance – The state when non-Muslims are properly subdued and subservient to Muslim rule, agree to their second-class Dhimmi status, and duly pay the Jizya to their Muslim overlords.

Truth – Truth is the accepted Islamic version of events, as laid out in the Koran and the Sunna. Anything beyond that is merely hearsay, and in many cases blasphemy. (see Lies).

Democracy – The state when Islam is the absolute law and religion, and all peoples conform to Islamic law and customs. (see Freedom).

Freedom of Speech – Freedom of speech is achieved when Muslims, and only Muslims, are free to espouse their beliefs, and non-Muslims are prohibited from commenting on or criticizing anything Islamic.

Just Society - A society ruled by Muslims under Islamic law.

Koran - Allah’s final word, perfect and un-altered, superseding all others and the true and only guide for mankind in religion, law and politics.

Oppression - The rule of a state by non-Islamic law; actions of resistance to implementation of Islamic law and Muslim rule.

Racism - The state where anything Islamic or any Muslim is criticized or rejected.

Infidel – Any and all non-Muslims. Subject only to conversion, subjugation, or death under Islamic law.

Slavery – The rightful and lawful status of any infidel captured in battle against Islam.

Treaty – A non-binding and temporary agreement between Muslims and non-Muslims, valid only until such time as the Muslims have the power to achieve by force or other means what they have momentarily failed to achieve.

Lies – The act of hiding the truth, permissible by Islamic law for a Muslim when in fear for his safety or when it advances the cause of Islam.

With these definitions in mind, we will be better prepared to answer or debate a Muslim statement.

When Larry King was interviewing Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul-Aziz in the wake of the 9-11 attacks I wish he had asked the following question.

So if one of the 5 pillars is jihad & you are obliged to defend Islam against all enemies - & let assume for a moment that no enemies exist - is it your duty to invent some?

btw - I lived In the Kingdom for 10 years. Not in Riyadh thank allah. in Al-Khobar where we ran wild.

Church screening of 'Jesus' film attacked in Pakistan

December 29, 2009 | 22:55:31

AS many as 50 Muslim villagers armed with clubs and axes recently attacked a showing of the 'Jesus' film near Sargodha, Pakistan, injuring three part-time evangelists and four Christians in attendance.

Two of the evangelists were said to be seriously injured. The Muslim hardliners also damaged a movie projector, burned reels of the film and absconded with the public address system and donations from Christian viewers in Chak village, about 10 kilometers northeast of Sargodha.

Officers at the Saddr police station refused to register a case against the Muslim assailants, sources said.

Three part-time evangelists, identified as Ishtiaq Bhatti, Imtiaz Ghauri and Kaleem Ghulam, had screened the film within the premises of the Catholic Church of Chak. Bhatti said the church compound was crammed with Christian villagers clapping as the film showed Jesus Christ performing miracles, raising the dead, casting out evil spirits and healing ailments.

Injured Christians were taken to the Basic Health Unit (BHU) of Chak village. Bhatti was treated for minor injuries, while Ghauri and Ghulam sustained serious injuries for which they received treatment at another hospital.

The evangelists said a Muslim cleric instigated the Muslim villagers, who were armed with clubs, spades and axes.

"They attacked us and broke all our appliances and took away funds collected by people to help us," Bhatti said. "Muslim men also injured those Christian villagers who tried to intervene and stop them."

The intervention of Chaudhary Nassar-Ullah Cheema, headman of the village, resulted in the rescue of the Christian evangelists and the surrender of the Muslim mob. The Muslim hardliners were forced to evacuate the church grounds, but only after a stand-off of nearly two hours.

Eyewitnesses said that as soon as the Muslim attackers watched the resurrection and ascension of Christ, they became enraged because their version of Islam forbids portraying an image of a living thing and especially that of a prophet. Muslims hold Christ as a prophet, they believe he was never crucified, having been replaced by a man identical to him.

Church screening of 'Jesus' film attacked in Pakistan - The Christian Messenger


More Misunderstanders of Islam. After all everyone knows and even our own useful idiots keep telling us, Islam is synonymous with peace and religious tolerance.

Anyway, according to the scarey fairy and other TD inbreds known for being a bit shy of common decency, this type of story should be dismissed because of its radical rightwing source. Go figure!


Btw, Not only does Islam regard Christian and Jew prophets as their own, but Abraham enjoys the title, Father of all Prophets. Good enough reason in the absence of logic to want to kill the non-believer.

Originally Posted by keda

The intervention of Chaudhary Nassar-Ullah Cheema, headman of the village, resulted in the rescue of the Christian evangelists and the surrender of the Muslim mob.

Did you forget to edit that bit out?