koran, allah, and all things islam

**keda** · 11-12-2009, 11:24 AM

This is a continuation of my Religion of Peace thread, expanded to cover not just the most violent and regressive "religion" in the history of the known universe, but its roots, causes, hopes, ambitions and methods, overt, stealth and legal jihad, its texts, dogma, shariah, dhimmitude, its hypocrisy and treatment of women, perfidy, and all other products of this hopelessly misunderstood ideology.

There we go, lots of scope for anyone wishing to contribute, and I've chosen this report to kick off as it relates to ongoing bug induced interference on another thread:

Hotelier Ben Vogelenzang cleared of insulting Muslim guest

A district judge yesterday questioned the character of a Muslim convert as he dismissed the case against husband-and-wife Christian hoteliers accused of offending her new-found religion.

Ericka Tazi, 60, who converted when she married a Muslim man, had claimed that Ben Vogelenzang, 53, had called her a terrorist and compared Muhammad to a warlord when she wore a hijab on the last day of her stay at the Bounty House Hotel in Liverpool last March. She also claimed that his wife, Sharon, 54, told her that wearing such a garment represented a form of bondage, or oppression, in a finger-pointing tirade that left her traumatised.

After a two-day trial, Richard Clancy, a district judge sitting at Liverpool Magistrates’ Court, threw out the allegations of religiously aggravated threatening behaviour, suggesting that Mrs Tazi’s account could not be relied upon and that she was not quite the religious person that she presented herself as in the witness box.

The case is being seen as a victory for free speech and liberty by evangelical groups, notably the Christian Institute, which sponsored the defence costs. It is likely to cause widespread alarm in the Muslim community.

The 15-minute incident came as Mrs Tazi, who suffers from fibromyalgia, came down to breakfast at the hotel at the end of a four-week course of pain management at Aintree Hospital. She decided to wear her hijab, the traditional Islamic dress, in celebration.

Mrs Tazi, a mother from Warrington, Cheshire, claimed that Mr Vogelenzang was transformed into a “whirling dervish”, likened Muhammad to warlords down the ages and asked her: “Are you a terrorist or a murderer?”

Mr Vogelenzang denied the allegation and suggested that it was Mrs Tazi who had provoked the confrontation by stating that Jesus was a minor prophet and the Bible was not true.

Hugh Tomlinson, QC, the couple’s counsel, said that it could not be objectionable under the laws of England that a person believed that women in Islam were oppressed. Even if it was said that Muhammad was a warlord, this could not be deemed offensive.

“The fact that someone is upset or offended is not a reason for criminalising the speech used by the other person,” he said. Dismissing the case, Mr Clancy said that it was often the case that religion and politics were the tinderbox that set the whole thing alight. “It would appear that is what has happened here,” he said.

The district judge questioned Mrs Tazi’s version of events. He referred to Mrs Tazi’s conversation with an ambulance driver in which she said: “They were taking the p*** out of me.”

Mr Clancy said: “It does not quite form the same religious view that was put to me on the stand.”

Hotelier Ben Vogelenzang cleared of insulting Muslim guest - Times Online

While the outcome of this case sounds like a minor victory for common sense, it becomes a signal triumph when one considers it actually happened in the UK, even if we do not bother questioning the decision making process that allowed such a travesty to reach district court in the first place.

This next one is a fine example of double standards at play in Dhimmi UK plc, and as usual don't be shy, your comments are invited.

Taxi driver sacked after he was captured on hidden CCTV telling a pensioner: 'You die tonight'

A taxi driver has been sacked after a hidden in-car camera caught him swearing at three terrified pensioners and telling one: 'You die tonight.'

Elyas Haidari, 24, hurled abuse at the women, who were all partially sighted, and told them to 'shut up' as he took them to a day care centre.

When the pensioners tried to get out of his car, Mr Haidari, who had held a licence for seven months, refused to help them.

Mr Haidari is the first cabbie to be caught by the new 'taxicam' system employed by Southampton City Council.

He was hauled before the council's licensing committee after the women complained about his 'truly shocking' behaviour.

Council officers downloaded the footage from the camera within hours and were stunned when they heard Mr Haidari telling one passenger 'you die tonight.'

He was also heard yelling, 'shut up' during the journeys and 'get out' at the women when they reached their destination.

Councillors voted in August to make it compulsory for cameras to be fitted in all new Hackney carriages.

Mr Haidari's car was among the 150 cabs which already had a camera fitted.

Licensing committee chairman Councillor Brian Parnell said that without the camera in Mr Haidari's car, his behaviour could have gone unnoticed.

He said: 'While incidents such as this in the city are fortunately rare, it undoubtedly shows the merit of having cameras fitted to all licensed vehicles in the city.

'It is a ringing endorsement of the council's recent decision to make the fitting of cameras mandatory.'

Council licensing officers downloaded the recording from the camera within hours of the incident being reported to them.

The council praised the cooperation and response by Radio Taxis following the complaint about their driver, who was promptly dismissed.

Company chairman Clive Johnson, who has launched a legal challenge against the decision to make cameras compulsory, said: 'We were very upset and concerned about what happened.

'But we didn't need the camera evidence. We acted on the information from the statements from the three ladies.

'We supplied all the information to the police. We didn't need a camera to tell us something had gone disastrously wrong.

'We are not against cameras, we're against being forced to have them.'

The £625 cameras, which the council sells at subsidy for £250 excluding VAT and fitting, take still pictures and record continuous audio once they are triggered by a door opening.

Drivers are also able to trigger a burst of pictures if they push a panic button.

A police spokesman said an officer spoke to Mr Haidari's three passengers although no official statements were taken and they did not wish to make an official complaint.

Cabbie sacked for telling disabled pensioner 'You die tonight' | Mail Online

Let's ignore the arguments for and against cab cams, since these are not relevant to the thread, though success in this instance appears to have given way to political bluster. Whether or not there was any religious compulsion for the cabbie's outrageous behaviour, this too should be ignored.

More pertinent, is that the cabbie abused, harassed, intimidated and frightened the old ladies in his care. Now, he happens to be a muzzie, and the authorities happen to have not just the words of 3 partially sighted women but proof, thanks to the onboard cam. One should reasonably hope with this weight of evidence, even the crappiest prosecutor could carve out a conviction against this vile creature. Yet he is not being prosecuted.

Otoh, a muzzie lady triggers a prosecution of a Christian couple on the basis of her word against theirs, with no other evidence except the testimony of witnesses siding the victims. Oh yes, because the lying bitch that caused so much suffering to the couple, chose to stage controversy by becoming offended.

Now, does anyone consider it unreasonable to suspect there may a stark and shameless double standard at work here?

Any thoughts on the likelihood of a prosecution if the cabbie were an infidel and his victims muzzie?

Should we expect our resident inbreds to contribute coherently, or will they resort to the diversionary tactics by rubbishing the report because it was issued by the Mail?

**AntRobertson** · 11-12-2009, 11:40 AM

Should we expect our resident inbreds to contribute coherently, or will they resort to the diversionary tactics by rubbishing the report because it was issued by the Mail?

Unless you want others to follow your example, given that you lead off and close with needless, pointless, and irrelevant ad hominem I don't think you're really in a position to be setting standards of 'coherent contribution' for others.

**DrB0b** · 11-12-2009, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by keda

This is a continuation of my Religion of Peace thread, expanded to cover not just the most violent and regressive "religion" in the history of the known universe, but its roots, causes, hopes, ambitions and methods, overt, stealth and legal jihad, its texts, dogma, shariah, dhimmitude, its hypocrisy and treatment of women, perfidy, and all other products of this hopelessly misunderstood ideology.

Blimey! You realise that the average Western lifespan is 80 years and that most of us get bored by the time a thread hits 50 posts. You've got your work cut out if you're going to cover that lot in less than 100 years. Still, it's nice that you've got a hobby.

**keda** · 11-12-2009, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Originally Posted by keda

This is a continuation of my Religion of Peace thread, expanded to cover not just the most violent and regressive "religion" in the history of the known universe, but its roots, causes, hopes, ambitions and methods, overt, stealth and legal jihad, its texts, dogma, shariah, dhimmitude, its hypocrisy and treatment of women, perfidy, and all other products of this hopelessly misunderstood ideology.

Blimey! You realise that the average Western lifespan is 80 years and that most of us get bored by the time a thread hits 50 posts. You've got your work cut out if you're going to cover that lot in less than 100 years. Still, it's nice that you've got a hobby.

And blimey too, I hope you never considered everything up there has to be discussed. Nope, could be a bit of paranoia at the thought that a certain poster may still be a mod, so just an attempt at cover against meddling on grounds of off topic, though I guess you're right if flexi-rules are in place. Still, lots of scope.

**Cujo** · 11-12-2009, 11:44 AM

I didn't read where there were any religious overtones to the cabbies behaviour, just asshole one. perhaps he got fed up woth three women prsttling on in the back about god knows what he told them to shut up.

**keda** · 11-12-2009, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dug

I didn't read where there were any religious overtones to the cabbies behaviour, just asshole one. perhaps he got fed up woth three women prsttling on in the back about god knows what he told them to shut up.

No question of his outrageous behaviour having a religious edge, and as mentioned that was not an issue.

**Attilla the Hen** · 11-12-2009, 11:44 AM

Yawn......yet another anti-muslim thread.

Violent religion? What about Thugee?

**keda** · 11-12-2009, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

Yawn......yet another anti-muslim thread.

Violent religion? What about Thugee?

Nasty pieces of work, but it did add a word to the English language.

**Wallalai** · 11-12-2009, 05:53 PM

Just ask belgian, french, dutch, danish ... don't forget british people what a pain in the a** the daily life with the muslims is.

This religion should be banned from occidental countries. Period. They don't respect nothing, it's not a religion at all.

I'll post some videos and news here so you'll be able to see how tolerant is this "dictature".

**keda** · 11-12-2009, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Wallalai

Just ask belgian, french, dutch, danish ... don't forget british people what a pain in the a** the daily life with the muslims is.

This religion should be banned from occidental countries. Period. They don't respect nothing, it's not a religion at all.

I'll post some videos and news here so you'll be able to see how tolerant is this "dictature".

Looking forward. I don't need persuading that islam and intolerance go hand in hand, but it would be interesting to get more views. I also don't need to be persuaded islam needs to be banned, but I see it only as the first step towards a modern day equivalent of a 'New Islam' which is less intolerant, equal and with freedoms that do not exist today, and compatible with Western civilisation. No, that does not mean everyone will live happily ever after and the tooth fairy visits at midnight. Also, of course this is not realistic under the present climate and attitudes, and to make matters worse I hope to add some more contentious thoughts that may seem even more inflammatory, to some.

Anyway, I also agree islam is not a religion but an inseparable political/religious supremest ideology, incompatible with Western civilisation for many reasons which we can cover in time, and importantly that it will well within the natural lifetime of a newborn change our way of life permanently, irreversibly, and adversely, across the board.

And I start with the firm belief that islam will triumph, and gain geographic ground by far exceeding pre-Crusade expansion, with Western civilisation the implicit loser. It won't be pretty, but it will happen, and this is where some more may start to squirm.

**crazy dog** · 11-12-2009, 10:05 PM

[quote=keda;1. I also don't need to be persuaded islam needs to be banned, but I see it only as the first step towards a modern day equivalent of a 'New Islam' which is less intolerant, equal and with freedoms that do not exist today, and compatible with Western civilisation.[/quote]

The only hope I can see of this happening is that women might start to stand up for themselves and demand emancipation from the men who are the rulers and decision makers in this vile creed. Nothing seems to terrify Muslim men more than an educated woman with the vote and her own opinions, and who aim to have real political and religious power. Why don't they have female Imams? does the koran forbid it? don't remember but probably as women are regarded and treated as second class citizens, when they start to wake up things might improve. What amazes me is the silence in the west from the 'feminist' liberals who stay silent for fear of offending anyone, pathetic betrayal of muslim women.

**keda** · 12-12-2009, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by crazy dog

The only hope I can see of this happening is that women might start to stand up for themselves and demand emancipation from the men who are the rulers and decision makers in this vile creed. Nothing seems to terrify Muslim men more than an educated woman with the vote and her own opinions, and who aim to have real political and religious power. Why don't they have female Imams? does the koran forbid it? don't remember but probably as women are regarded and treated as second class citizens, when they start to wake up things might improve. What amazes me is the silence in the west from the 'feminist' liberals who stay silent for fear of offending anyone, pathetic betrayal of muslim women.

Quite a few things to address in that post, so some thoughts to kick off a bit of flow, though several shelves of books could be written on any area of interest to this thread. Contributions welcome as usual but keep in mind space limitations and don't expect to more than scratch at any surface.

There will always be the odd woman prepared to sacrifice herself for a point or belief or hope that it makes a difference, and of course some that have suffered to the point of caring no longer. I can't see much movement towards emancipation coming from within islam, as long as its women are chattel and intimidated into keeping their place. Also, as one of its natural victims, they know better than anyone how islam works and reacts domestically to the radical notion of progressive change for women.

When an ideology prescribes beating wives that withhold sex, public stoning or honour killing for sex with an unauthorised person or other perceived dishonour, and from lashes to execution for being raped, it is fair to say women's rights are not high on any islamic list of priorities.

No great surprise, it is a patriarchal system with the men in control, and whether islam or any group or belief system nobody willingly hands over power for equality.

So, a revolt for human rights by muslim women? Would be nice, but quite messy.

As for feminazis that keep oddly silent about the condition of islamic women, from the safety of a comfort zone where they instinctively attack any male that dares to glance their way, I guess we really shouldn't expect much action from them and hardly more than the occasional half-hearted, apologetic protest.

While the feminazi plays the pc cards to limit when it suits, in the West, they know just how far they can push in other directions. And while they have trained castrated 21st century Western males to nod on demand, they also know they're not going to get much satisfaction or cooperation from an ideology rooted in 7th century values. So, know your friend, Western values and and principles that are eager to appease, but more important know your enemy, one that is not debilitated by those values and principles, sees them as weaknesses and cares little for pc niceties beyond joining with the feminazi to exploit those weaknesses to its own ends.

They'll probably carry on much like before, tutting on cue from the sidelines, to convince the easily convinced that they're working on it but please don't expect too much, like more than more tutting.

A fine example of European dhimmitude is the cartoon farce, which had much of Europe on the back foot and the christian Brit media especially keen to announce its respect for islam and the view that publication of such offensive material is really not such a nice thing.

By the way, there was no muslim outrage when the cartoons were published in arab/muslim papers.

More recently we have the Swiss minaret ban, which places no restriction on the number of mosques, just minarets. Yet OIC members are outraged and already turning over options to punish the Swiss, including boycotts of travel and Swiss goods, and a mass withdrawal of deposits. Meanwhile, I would not like to be the one volunteered to Jeddah with a mission to build Saudi's first church. The shameless hypocrisy of it, and doubly so that Eurasia remains silent on the issue.

Will the Swiss capitulate? Sure they will, under mounting pressures on several fronts, from political, diplomatic, economic and social, perhaps with a peaceful bomb or two thrown in for good measure, and a reminder that it doesn't pay to defy the self-evident truth of islam. Capitulation as always, will probably also have them grant as a gesture of goodwill concessions that will work to the long term detriment of Swiss people and society, which means in favour of islam.

There may be a female imam, eventually, resulting in squabbles among the factions when one breaks from dogma, or tradition. The ideology of islam has no leader or figurehead, no council, and even the islamic schools of jurispridence do not share a common understanding beyond the main teachings. There is no person or body that represents all of islam.

I guess the first female imam would not enjoy the authority of a male imam, or be accepted by all male imams, would also not be recognised by more than one of the 4 main schools of jurisprudence, and then only in a limited capacity.

Whichever school or faction produces the first female imam, it would be a major coup for islam and an 'investment' that will reap enormous divis. No doubt it will be hailed by Eurasia and marketed as 'proof' that islam is being modernised - but we can't do it overnight so please be patient and tolerant and make more concessions to encourage us to keep moving in the right direction - and result in major concessions across the board. Then many that were almost awake will go back to sleep.

**Wallalai** · 11-12-2009, 06:00 PM

Could you imagine a muslim Thailand ?

I guess there will be no one farang coming here. And you know why. So don't ask western countries to accept the islam "diktat".

Let the muslim stay in their dunes in the desert and when they come in our country they have to follow our laws and rules. Like when we go (not me) there.

If they are not happy with that they are free to fly back home.

**AntRobertson** · 11-12-2009, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Wallalai

Could you imagine a muslim Thailand ?

Don't have to imagine it, there are Muslims living in Thailand. Plenty of them.

**the dogcatcher** · 12-12-2009, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Originally Posted by Wallalai

Could you imagine a muslim Thailand ?

Don't have to imagine it, there are Muslims living in Thailand. Plenty of them.

Yes, causing trouble, killing and bombing.

**keda** · 11-12-2009, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by Wallalai

Could you imagine a muslim Thailand ?

Yes, but not for now.

I guess there will be no one farang coming here. And you know why. So don't ask western countries to accept the islam "diktat".

Let the muslim stay in their dunes in the desert and when they come in our country they have to follow our laws and rules. Like when we go (not me) there.

If they are not happy with that they are free to fly back home.

I agree, but those that make the decisions obviously don't.

Also worth distinguishing between islam and muslims. For me it is the ideology of islam that ought to be reviled and addressed, but far from all muslims.

**phomsanuk** · 03-06-2010, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by keda

Originally Posted by Wallalai

Could you imagine a muslim Thailand ?

Yes, but not for now.

I guess there will be no one farang coming here. And you know why. So don't ask western countries to accept the islam "diktat".

Let the muslim stay in their dunes in the desert and when they come in our country they have to follow our laws and rules. Like when we go (not me) there.

If they are not happy with that they are free to fly back home.

I agree, but those that make the decisions obviously don't.

Also worth distinguishing between islam and muslims. For me it is the ideology of islam that ought to be reviled and addressed, but far from all muslims.

Muslim is the participle of the same verb of which Islam is the infinitive. [wiki]

**Eliminator** · 11-12-2009, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by Wallalai

Could you imagine a muslim Thailand ?

I guess there will be no one farang coming here. And you know why. So don't ask western countries to accept the islam "diktat".

Let the muslim stay in their dunes in the desert and when they come in our country they have to follow our laws and rules. Like when we go (not me) there.

If they are not happy with that they are free to fly back home.

Too true, ship all the bastardssss back.

**keda** · 12-12-2009, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Eliminator

Originally Posted by Wallalai

Could you imagine a muslim Thailand ?

I guess there will be no one farang coming here. And you know why. So don't ask western countries to accept the islam "diktat".

Let the muslim stay in their dunes in the desert and when they come in our country they have to follow our laws and rules. Like when we go (not me) there.

If they are not happy with that they are free to fly back home.

Too true, ship all the bastardssss back.

Can't see that's needed or even possible. It would help if we had leaders that are able and prepared to recognise the invasion of corrupt ideals, and are prepared to acknowledge there is a problem. Unfortunately can't see that happen anytime soon, not with the crop we seem to be stuck with. For sure future (infidel) generations won't thank us.

The good news is that more people are waking up for longer than a yawn, and more are beginning to feel their way of life threatened. Still, not enough and almost certainly too late for some parts of Europe.

If someone visits my home and criticises my choice of wallpaper I may be irked, but if they demand I change it because if I don't they will, then however 'nice' I am it's time to respond in a less than civil fashion. As it is, many European politicians are prepared to capitulate on colour and texture, whilst insisting it needed changing anyway.

**AntRobertson** · 11-12-2009, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Wallalai

Just ask belgian, french, dutch, danish ... don't forget british people what a pain in the a** the daily life with the muslims is.

This religion should be banned from occidental countries. Period. They don't respect nothing, it's not a religion at all.

I'll post some videos and news here so you'll be able to see how tolerant is this "dictature".

... I suppose pointing out the inherent irony of what you've just posted is in order. You sound just as intolerant as you claim 'they' are.

Originally Posted by keda

No question of his outrageous behaviour having a religious edge

Based on what? Nothing in the article even mentions his faith (or lack thereof).

**Wallalai** · 11-12-2009, 06:06 PM

.

This message is hidden because AntRobertson is on your ignore list

Mouahahahahaha

**AntRobertson** · 11-12-2009, 09:21 PM

It's funny that in a thread discussing Muslim intolerance that in the face of perfectly logical and reasonable counterpoints you get responses that are the virtual equivalent of sticking your virtual fingers in your virtual ears and going "nyahh, nyahh, nyahh I can't hear you!":

Originally Posted by Wallalai

This message is hidden because AntRobertson is on your ignore list

Mouahahahahaha

, comments via repo like this:

koran, allah, and all...11-12-2009 09:03 PMEliminatorFeck off, you sound like a public attorney.

, or, simply, post after post of silly name-calling or no response at all.

I guess that when people are close-minded or have weak arguments they'd rather not be forced to face that particular reality. The greatest irony of it all being that they're just as bad as some of those they rally against.

**AntRobertson** · 11-12-2009, 06:08 PM

^Yep like I said, intolerant.

Can't even handle hearing a different opinion from your own. Welcome to being a part of the problem you're crying about.

**Mid** · 11-12-2009, 06:08 PM

Still, it's nice that you've got a hobby.

consider that stolen ........ by me

**AntRobertson** · 11-12-2009, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by keda

...Whether or not there was any religious compulsion for the cabbie's outrageous behaviour, this too should be ignored.

More pertinent, is that the cabbie abused, harassed, intimidated and frightened the old ladies in his care. Now, he happens to be a muzzie, and the authorities happen to have not just the words of 3 partially sighted women but proof, thanks to the onboard cam. One should reasonably hope with this weight of evidence, even the crappiest prosecutor could carve out a conviction against this vile creature. Yet he is not being prosecuted.

Having read the linked story again I'm having even more trouble trying to discern the actual point you're trying to make...

Firstly you say that the fact he's Muslim is irrelevant and should be ignored, yet later you go on to unequivocally state that it played a part in his behaviour. So which is it? And if the latter, then again I'd ask what you're basing that on?

Secondly you decry the fact he's not being prosecuted in light of all of the evidence, the inference being it's because he's Muslim (see above). But the answer to this is readily apparent from your own link: "...A police spokesman said an officer spoke to Mr Haidari's three passengers although no official statements were taken and they did not wish to make an official complaint.". It has nothing to do with what evidence there is because the evidence is not in question (and neither does it bare any comparison to the case involving the Tazi woman where the evidence was found to be against her).

So the guy has already been hauled over the coals by the council's licensing committee, and has lost his job as a result, and no other official complaint made to police. Yet you've presented this story as an example of some bias and double-standard - frankly it sounds more like you think that he should've been punished more merely for having the terminity to be Muslim (which remains an assumption right now in any event, I still can't see any reference to his faith).

In any event the double-standard you suggest doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny in this case.

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