Thread: Indefinite detention for Americans

Originally Posted by HansuMan

WOW BOXER!!

You know, you'd seem much less of a twat if you called posters by their real handle, no matter how odious they may be, and stopped spamming every thread related to the US with 9/11 conspiracy links.

Invaluable in the quest for liberty and freedom.

The US really is a shit hole these days. What food for the Alex Jones types.

Originally Posted by Neo

Republican Sen. Kelly Ayotte said last week that "terrorists shouldn't be able to view all of our interrogation practices online,” and Senator Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.) added during debate this week, "When a member of Al Qaeda or a similar associated terrorist group, I want . . . them to be terrified about what's going to happen to them in American custody.”

When you have ignorant kunts like this running your country and using make-believe terrorist organisations to pass bills which effectively turn it into a police state, you can safely say it's fucked.

RIP The Land of the Free.

Originally Posted by Marmite the Dog

.
RIP The Land of the Free.

It hasn't been that for a loooong time...

Boonme, you are part of the problem. You and your ass party created this state. Stop the bs I didn't support this stuff comments. You like this Nazi stuff.

Originally Posted by Hampsha

Boonme, you are part of the problem. You and your ass party created this state. Stop the bs I didn't support this stuff comments. You like this Nazi stuff.

B.S. You don't your ass from your elbow what I like or do not like...

...love people who put others into little boxes and identify such...

You put yourself into the boxes in your 19,000 posts.

Originally Posted by Hampsha

You put yourself into the boxes in your 19,000 posts.

Obama insists on indefinite detention of Americans

Published: 12 December, 2011, 22:01
Edited: 12 December, 2011, 22:44

Think that President Obama will stand by his word and veto the legislation that will allow the government to detain American citizens without charge or trial? Think again.

The Obama administration has insisted that the president will veto the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, a bill that passed through the Senate last week. Under the legislation, the United States of America is deemed a battlefield and Americans suspected of committing a terrorism offense can be held without trial and tortured indefinitely. Despite the grave consequences for citizens and the direct assault on the US Constitution, the act managed to make it through both halves of Congress but President Obama says he won’t let it become a law.

According to Senator Carl Levin, however, Americans should be a bit more concerned about what the president’s actual intentions are. Levin, who sits on the Armed Services Committee as chairman, has revealed to Congress that the Obama administration influenced the wording of the act and shot down text that would have saved American citizens from the indefinite imprisonment and suspension of habeas corpus.
(Click image above for video of Senator Levin's speech)

Senator Levin told Congress recently that under the original wording of the National Defense Authorization Act, American citizens were excluded from the provision that allowed for detention. Once Obama’s officials saw the text though, says Levin, “the administration asked us to remove the language which says that US citizens and lawful residents would not be subject to this section.”

Specifically, the section that Obama asked to be reworded was Section 1031 of the NDAA FY2012, which says that "any person who has committed a belligerent act" could be held indefinitely. “It was the administration that asked us to remove the very language which we had in the bill which passed the committee…we removed it at the request of the administration,” said Levin. “It was the administration which asked us to remove the very language the absence of which is now objected to.”

John Wood of Change.org writes that President Obama proposed a veto of Section 1032 of the NDAA, which does not pertain to the detention of American citizens. Rather, that section deals with the use of the US military in taking custody of suspected criminals. Section 1031, which actually deals with the indefinite imprisonment of Americans, remains not only unopposed by the Obama administration, but the president has made sure that the law specifically includes Americans, urging Congress to redraft the legislation with increasingly confusing wording that makes the legalization detrimental to America.

President Obama could sign off on the legislation as early as this December 13 if he chooses not to exercise his veto power. The bill, which includes budgetary provisions for the US military, comes at a price-tag several billion dollars cheaper than the president had asked for of Congress.

https://rt.com/usa/news/obama-detent...vin-635/print/

Sadly, the USA currently lacks a responsible and truly independent Supreme Court that would throw this piece of shit legislation into the cesspit where it belongs.

Those are the same 'Judges' that sold your democracy downstream with the 'Citizens United' decision. Whoever is funding the proliferation of billboards you will surely see in election year could be literally anyone, because their confidentiality is now protected as a corporation. Koch Bro's, Soros, French arms manufacturers, the PLA, or Mother frikking Theresa- literally anyone can be funding those campaign adverts under corporate camouflage, and you dear US citizen have no right to know, thanks to Citizens United.

The pace at which democracy in the USA is deteriorating is really quite alarming.

I wonder how many people would support the use of predators on US soil to take out local threats? They seem to be good enough for other countries. Will they be used one day?

Predator drones are already being used here for local law enforcement. Suppose it's just a matter of time before they "take out" threats.


The Los Angeles Times[at]yesterday[at]reported[at]that local police in North Dakota used a Predator B drone — the most common unmanned aircraft employed by the U.S. military to attack and kill “insurgents” in the Muslim world — to apprehend three men. The suspects had refused to turn over six cows which had wandered onto their land (the laws governing open-range ownership are in dispute and the farm owners claimed they are entitled to keep the cows); after being tasered in an earlier incident on their land for allegedly resisting arrest, they brandished weapons at the officers who came to seize the cows. The police, armed with a warrant, then called in a Predator drone to fly over their land, locate them, and transmit video images to the police; when the drone revealed the suspects were unarmed, the police entered their property and arrested them.

The growing menace of domestic drones - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com

It is yet another day that I am sad to be an American.

Originally Posted by Hampsha

Everything came out after 9/11.

Aint that the truth... all this fascism domestically & abroad, stemming from a whack-job 9/11 conspiracy theory, which even some here @ TD like Boxer apparently believe,

Copy the Body of this Post and Send It In An Email – All Modern Browsers Allow You To Do It – To Your Elected Representatives, Local Law Enforcement, Military Friends and Everyone You Know


Everything Happening Now Was Planned Before 9/11

We’ve been told that “9/11 changed everything” and that we’re living in “a post-911 world”.

We’ve been told that what our government is doing now has been rendered necessary by the urgent post-9/11 threat from terrorists.

In reality, however, virtually everything happening now was planned before 9/11. Please see for yourself:

• The government’s spying on Americans began before 9/11 (confirmed here and here. And see this)

• The Patriot Act was planned before 9/11 (and see this). Indeed, former Counter Terrorism Czar Richard Clarke told Stanford law professor Lawrence Lessig:

After 9/11 the government drew up the Patriot Act within 20 days and it was passed.

The Patriot Act is huge and I remember someone asking a Justice Department official how did they write such a large statute so quickly, and of course the answer was that it has been sitting in the drawers of the Justice Department for the last 20 years waiting for the event where they would pull it out.

(4:30 into this video).

• Government plans, exercises or drills to detain American citizens who opposed war were also drawn up before 9/11, as was a bill allowing the permanent detention by the Attorney General of aliens convicted of no crimes, with no judicial review

• The Afghanistan war was planned before 9/11 (see this and this)

• The decision to launch the Iraq war was made before 9/11. Indeed, former CIA director George Tenet said that the White House wanted to invade Iraq long before 9/11, and inserted “crap” in its justifications for invading Iraq. Former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill – who sat on the National Security Council – also says that Bush planned the Iraq war before 9/11. Top British officials say that the U.S. discussed Iraq regime change even before Bush took office. And in 2000, Cheney said a Bush administration might “have to take military action to forcibly remove Saddam from power.” And see this.

• Cheney made Iraqi’s oil fields a national security priority before 9/11. And the Sunday Herald reported: “Five months before September 11, the US advocated using force against Iraq … to secure control of its oil.” (remember that Alan Greenspan, John McCain, George W. Bush, Sarah Palin, a high-level National Security Council officer and others all say that the Iraq war was really about oil.)

• The decision to threaten to bomb Iran was made before 9/11, and the Christian Science Monitor notes that the U.S. has been claiming for more than 30 years that Iran was on the verge of nuclear capability

• Wars throughout the Middle East and North Africa to effect regime were planned before 9/11

• Cheney dreamed of giving the White House the powers of a monarchy long before 9/11

• Cheney and Rumsfeld actively generated fake intelligence which exaggerated the threat from an enemy in order to justify huge amounts of military spending long before 9/11. And see this

• The government knew that terrorists could use planes as weapons — and had even run its own drills of planes being used as weapons against the World Trade Center and other U.S. high-profile buildings, using REAL airplanes — all before 9/11

• America played dirty games to justify wars before 9/11

Washington's Blog

Originally Posted by HansuMan

Originally Posted by Hampsha

Everything came out after 9/11.

Remind us again how M. Atta and his merry men factored into your version of the events?

Sans whacked-out conspiracy BS that is...

^ Boxer - as you're aware, I addressed this 'question' with you in the other 'indefinite detentions' thread in the US/Domestic subforum--
https://teakdoor.com/us-domestic-issu...ood-thing.html

... but as you're also aware Boxer, the following is what recently happened to our former dialog on the subject there:

Originally Posted by HansuMan

Wow, those who've followed this thread can attest, it's now been seriously gutted by some anonymous mod of (former) replies, sans explanation! There must be a dozen deleted replies here now! And the purge happened in the past 24 hours, after the thread had already gone quiet for several days.

What's been "selectively removed" is a dialog between Boxer & I, where Boxer was ducking/bobbing/weaving in an effort to avoid answering the question of how the scary mooslems managed to wire up WTC-7 for it's picture-perfect controlled demolition, which they then apparently conducted 9/11 afternoon at around 5:20 PM.

Oddly though, a few of Boxer's replies, formerly in the middle of our exchange, now still remain, standing alone unchallenged. In these replies which are still here at this writing (#s 37^^^ and 38^^, Boxer is seen employing his RULES #4 (Use a straw man), #9 (Play Dumb), #17 (Change the subject) & #20 (False evidence).

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

We are to suppose that Mohamad Atta and his merry little gang were simple stooges of the evil Jooos?

Right...

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Originally Posted by HansuMan

and I'm still waiting to hear your glorious explanation for how Osama & the scary mooslems pulled off that feat?!

Never saw the news reports re M. Atta and his gang of merry men attending those flight schools did you, HM?

Ignored the reports of the 7th hijacker stuck in Germany due to visa problems? And, what about that other splendid individual who was captured in Minnesota trying to get into a flight school?

But please don't forget about the all-important KSM, OK? The admitted 'mastermind' directly below OBL. Heh...& furthermore, please continue to ignore OBL's words following the disaster where he states the mission exceeded all expectations.

after getting OWNED when none of his RULES were successful in avoiding the question (the only evidence remaining of our disappeared dialog is above in yellow), Boxer employed the only RULE he had left, #25 (Vanish).

I guess when you're a TD , and your shtick crashes & burns for all readers to see, you can just cry to the mods privately,

and they'll make it all go away...

There there Boxer, is it all better now?

RULE #16,

16. Vanishing evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.

... and as you're also, also aware Boxer, even the post above^ which was formerly posted in the other 'indefinite detentions' thread, merely noting how the thread had been gutted of former replies-- well, that's^ now deleted from the thread too. Most of what remains of our former dialog in that thread is the shamefully-deceptive appearance of a few posts from you promoting your whacked-out "Scary Moooslems Did 9/11" conspiracy theories,


... deceptively appearing "unchallenged", with no evidence of the former replies/dialog challenging your whacked-out theories remaining there. Good old Rule 16... eh Boxer?

I cringe to think of the pain the TD mods must endure, in having to deal with the rude/demanding private message-load from certain whiney "DONER!-Stein" biatches hereabouts....

Here again Boxer, as was formerly presented to you/readers b4 it was ahem "mysteriously deleted" [kof kof]:

Was America Attacked by Muslims on 9/11?

[...]Conclusion

All the proffered evidence that America was attacked by Muslims on 9/11, when subjected to critical scrutiny, appears to have been fabricated. If that is determined indeed to be the case, the implications would be enormous. Discovering and prosecuting the true perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks would obviously be important. The most immediate consequence, however, should be to reverse those attitudes and policies that have been based on the assumption that America was attacked by Muslims on 9/11.

Yaaaaaaaaawn... ZzZzZzZzZzZz... Meanwhile back on planet Earth

Indefinite detention and torture act arrives at White House

Published: 22 December, 2011, 20:30
Edited: 22 December, 2011, 21:55

Legislation that will let President Obama and future leaders of America detain and torture Americans indefinitely has made it to the White House, where it is expected to be soon signed into law by the commander-in-chief.

The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012, of NDAA FY2012, was overwhelmingly approved by the House and Senate earlier this month. While the legislation indeed had its critics, the act was inexplicably missed by the mainstream media, who neglected to inform Americans of the dangerous blows to constitutional rights that will become a reality under the law.

The bill, which is annually updated to outline spending for the Department of Defense, contains several provisions for 2012 that will turn America, as Senator Lindsey Graham puts it, “into a battlefield.” As the US continues an open-ended war on terror, now American citizens suspected to be linked to terrorist enemies can be detained in prison indefinitely and subjected to torture tactics previously outlawed.

“What this legislation does,” lectured Senator Karl Levin earlier this month, “says from the Congress’ point-of-view, that we expressly authorize the indefinite detention” of someone deemed a threat. “We recognize the authority of this president and every other president to hold an enemy combatant indefinitely, whether they are captured home or abroad, because that only makes sense.”
“How long can you hold them? As long as it takes to make us safe,” said Graham.

The senator added that, “when you join the enemy…we aren’t worried about how we’re going to prosecute you right away.” Because of this, Miranda Rights should not be read to suspected criminals and additionally the right to an attorney is also suspended under the act.

Additionally, the president can send American-born detainees to foreign prisons and can at last legally take the offense and launch cyber wars against alleged enemy nations.
Indefinite detention and torture act arrives at White House — RT

Opinion says the Big guy is going to sell you all out....

Originally Posted by HansuMan

All the proffered evidence that America was attacked by Muslims on 9/11, when subjected to critical scrutiny, appears to have been fabricated

Yes, of course.

The video tapes of M. Atta and his merry men boarding those planes was fabricated!

You are one brain-damaged, whacked-out conspiracy nut-job there HM...

insane.

Cash is trash: Big American Brother gives hints on how to spot citizen terrorists

Published: 25 December, 2011, 08:09
Edited: 25 December, 2011, 08:09



Do you own flashlights? Or pay with cash instead of a credit card? And do grocery shopping for the week? I do. You probably do – and guess what, according to the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, that could make both of us terrorists.

Recently, a Department of Homeland Security video has been making its way around the Internet; it tells people in no mixed terms that “paying cash is suspicious and weird.” In an assertive, yet calm voice, the narrator tells viewers that, “if a patron appears nervous or anxious, or insists on paying cash, contact security personnel. This IS suspicious behavior.”
So basically, if you’ve had a stressful day and don’t have a credit card, you're done for.

This suggestion, and many others, has been sent out to hotels across the United States as part of the DHS’ ongoing “See something, Say something” program. It even includes an 84-page manual, grandly titled, “Protective Measures Guide for the US Lodging Industry” – which points out that asking for privacy, among other things, is a red flag.

And that’s really what this boils down to: a war on privacy. A potential terrorist, argue the US security agencies, is much easier to track if he uses a credit card. Credit card use provides Big Brother instant access to the buyer's contact information, purchase history – and, if need be, the ability to cut off his financial supply in an instant.

But the implementation of this idea is a rather grim prospect: instead of using an existing system to aid their efforts, agencies like the DHS and the FBI are effectively taking away the freedom of choice guaranteed in a supposedly free country.
Don’t want to live on credit? Potential terrorist. Nervous? Potential terrorist. Don’t want to be disturbed? Potential terrorist.

And it gets worse. In an FBI pamphlet distributed to military surplus stores, people who “make bulk purchases of items including weatherproofed ammunition or match containers, meals ready to eat or night vision devices including flashlights” should be reported. Because all those things are “potential indicators of terrorist activities.”



FBI Handout Lists Purchase of Preparedness Items as “Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities” (image from Oath Keepers )

Of course, people who, say, want to go camping, can make do without any of the aforementioned items. They can just take their credit cards, march right into the woods and make do that way. Or better yet, take the card, leave the woods and check into a hotel – smiling all the way, never locking the door and burning the “do not disturb” sign immediately upon arrival.

The helpful Bureau booklet also mentions “purchasing bipods or tripods for rifles” as dangerous. Not the rifles themselves – what’s a lethal weapon between friends, right? No, in a country where almost anyone anywhere can buy firearms, people only worry when you buy a tripod for it.

And the absurdity doesn’t end there. The agencies are going out of their way to instill fear into whoever they can, convincing them to report anything they deem suspicious. Of course, that includes sending a text message discreetly if you’re in public. An unsuspicious, law-abiding citizen would obviously have to read his private messages or broadcast his phone calls out loud to be considered above-board. If he's whispering into his handset, however, the DHS is relying on its “citizen spies” to pounce and denounce the poor guy.

Right-wing political tendencies can also land you in trouble. Vice President Joe Biden recently likened Tea Party supporters to terrorists. But go too far left – and you’re right back where youstarted, with the whole might of the American security system breathing down your neck. If you align yourself with the 99% of the Occupy movement, you’re not above suspicion either. Stories of undercover officers infiltrating various ‘Occupy’ camps across the country have been rife, CIA involvement has been hinted at – and the US’ biggest ally, the United Kingdom, has officially equated the protesters to terrorists.
Add to this:

- Being a veteran. Not that America has that many veterans, of course, having been recent history's the most peace-loving, non-invading, unbiased country.

- Owning a gun. Of course, not only is it legal to own a gun, most people in the country know full well how to use one.

- Owning precious metals. Because the dollar is worth so much nowadays, the government thinks there's something kooky about people wanting to invest in something other than US Treasury paper.

And then, of course, there are SOPA and PIPA. They might sound like a couple of cute cartoon names, but the two bills – the Stop

Online Piracy and Protect IP Acts – have caused huge concern in the States. Internet giants such as Google, Yahoo, and Twitter likened the act to Chinese-style censorship.

There’s also the infamous NDAA – or National Defense Authorization Act, which basically allows indefinite detention of terror suspects, including American citizens.

And if you look at what makes a potential suspect, you can pretty much expect to be waterboarded every time you answer your phone. Or buy too much food. Or a flashlight.

The irony of all this, of course, is that while the various agencies spin their citizen-spy web, they’re overlooking the obvious. What they’re doing is in conflict with the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
But hey, undermining a country’s founding document is nowhere near as bad as paying cash, right?

http://rt.com/news/terrorism-credit-...ent-613/print/

TSA to start searching ground transportation

Published: 24 December, 2011, 00:38
Edited: 24 December, 2011, 00:39



While two-out-of-five Americans are going to try to avoid air travel this holiday season to avoid TSA pat-downs, strip searches and never-ending security line-ups, they might not find comfort in the glimmering Greyhound stations across the US.

Don’t think a bus or train ticket will keep Uncle Sam from making your vacation this year uncomfortable. The Transportation Security Administration says that they are turning up the heat on potential problem-causers by installing more agents in not just airport checkpoints but in terminals for terrestrial traffic as well.

"We are not the Airport Security Administration," Ray Dineen, the air marshal in charge of the TSA office in Charlotte, tells the Los Angeles Times. "We take that transportation part seriously."

How serious? The TSA’s secret counter-terrorism team that tries to topple crimes in transportation centers have run more than 9,000 unannounced checkpoints and other search operations in 2011, and the Department of Homeland Security are asking for an extra $24 million for 2012 to organize even more teams to put in bus stations and Amtrak terminals next year.

Currently the TSA commands 25 “viper” teams — what they call the two-dozen-plus Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response units that conduct the checkpoints from coast-to-coast. The TSA can’t prove that the increase in 2011 did anything to keep crime down on the ground, but George Washington University’s Homeland Security Police Institute’s Frank Cilluffo tells the Times that they need to keep the terrorists “on edge.”

As a result, however, millions of law-abiding Americans that rely on public transportation to get around — whether plane, train or bus— are also being agitated. 93 million residents are expected to use airplanes to get around this holiday season, but more and more Americans are saying they are fed up with the intrusive and questionably legal procedures that the government is conducting to try to thwart terrorism.

Even after recent weeks saw a scandal brew out of New York’s JFK International Airport after three elderly passengers complained in just as many days of overzealous pat-downs performed by the TSA, the Administration announced that “the vast majority” of travelers this year can expect to see increased security in airports.

Opponents of the increased security presence don’t see it as a safety precaution, however, and some say that it is only propelling America further into a totalitarian police state.

“This program represents nothing less than a direct assault on the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution,” Jay Stanley of the American Civil Liberties Union wrote on Tuesday. “It’s also an exceedingly dumb security measure. But never underestimate the mindless force of a government bureaucracy seeking to expand its power, domain, and budget.”

From a legal standpoint, the TSA fires back that “the Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld suspicious-less searches based on the government’s need to ensure the safety of mass transportation,” recalling a handful of court cases that support the fact. That being said, if you feel like a surprise pat-down while waiting for your bus isn’t only out of the question but against the law, the TSA is ready to take you to court and win.


TSA to start searching ground transportation — RT

Merry fokkin xmas America