Thread: Nato calls for calm after boats seized in Russia-Ukraine clashes

Originally Posted by reddog

Putin builds a bridge over the Kerch strait to control the movement of ships to the Sea of Azov then he owns the sea,no more
Ukraine ships allowed to go to Ukraine ports and stuff right of navigation,win win for Russia.

You may wish to investigate the bilateral treaty and the agreed operations.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

ideal opportunity for the European Army to flex their muscles...

WTF do you think NATO has been doing for the past 5years?

Originally Posted by Maanaam

Ukraine has NATO supporting it's right to navigate the waters

NATO will not support shit. ameristan will, but they believe Russia will only attack Europe and not ameristan.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Council of Europe Secretary General Thorbjorn Jagland said free passage of the Kerch Strait was guaranteed by the 2003 treaty signed by Russia and Ukraine.

Read the treaty and operating conditions and quote the clause, in English or Russian.

Originally Posted by reddog

it is no wonder Putin is flexing his power and does not give a stuff what West thinks.

Russia has laws on it's side, Ukraine does not.

Originally Posted by Klondyke

I am puzzled, how can a martial law inside the country help to calm the conflict on the high sea?

I have read that one of the articles of the Martial Law bill will allow for the dismissal of treaties with foreign countries. Which would allow Ukraine to possibly win more support from those peace loving countries ameristan and UK.

From what appears to be a Ukraine official press office site.

Parliament green-lights martial law in Ukraine: 30-day period in certain districts

"What does martial law in Ukraine mean?

"The law allows to:

- Introduce labor service for the sake of defenses, elimination of natural and man-made emergencies, and socially useful work;

- Use the capacity and labor resources of enterprises and organizations of all forms of ownership for the sake of defenses, change their mode of operation and working conditions;

- Withdraw for temporary use the required property of ministries, central and local executive authorities, territorial communities, enterprises and citizens, including vehicles, structures, cars, machinery, equipment and other facilities related to the maintenance of transport, issuing documents of the established sample;

- Set up protection of important facilities of the national economy of Ukraine;

- Impose a curfew and establish a special blackout mode;

- Establish a special mode of border crossing, restrict the freedom of movement of citizens, foreigners and stateless persons, as well as traffic;

- Check IDs of citizens, and if necessary, inspect belongings, vehicles, luggage and cargo, office space and citizens' homes;

- Raise the issue of banning political parties, public organizations if they threaten the sovereignty, national security of Ukraine, its independence and territorial integrity, as well as the lives of citizens;

- Monitor the work of telecoms enterprises, printing companies, publishing houses, television and radio organizations, cultural institutions and organizations, use local radio stations, television centers and printing presses for military needs and explanatory work among the troops and the public, regulate the work of amateur receiving and transmitting radio stations, transmitting information through computer networks;

- Seize from citizens their firearms and ammunition, cold arms, as well as from enterprises, institutions and organizations

– training and military equipment explosives, radioactive substances and materials, potent chemicals and toxic substances;

- Prohibit conscripts and reservists from changing their place of residence without notifying the military command;

- Establish for individuals and legal entities the obligation to house military personnel and military units, subdivisions and institutions;

- Establish the procedure for the use of shelters, structures and other facilities to protect the population, as well as meet the needs of defense;

- Carry out the evacuation of the population, enterprises, institutions, organizations and material values;

- Introduce standardized provision of the population with basic food and non-food goods, medicines;

- Forcibly withdraw and seize property from legal entities and individuals for defense purposes.

https://www.unian.info/politics/1035...districts.html

I'm sure 'arry, MK, ..... will think these are all useful for the good of the local citizen.

My advice if your in Ukraine, is to get out now.

If you can.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

None of the above (your list) were NATO actions.

Different stickers, but same military hardware, personnel and countries...therefore one in the same.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Putin has violated a treaty though, I think you can safely say that one's flushed down the gary glitter.

Title, Clause, Section of your treaty?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

And then posted a link that shows that none of the articles says that.

Last section, see above.

Originally Posted by OhOh

- Forcibly withdraw and seize property from legal entities and individuals for defense purposes.

Item 1.

Word: withdraw

Definition: She had to withdraw from the ........... because she had .......

Item 2.

Words: legal entities

Definition: A company or organization that has legal rights and responsibilities, for example the right to make contracts and the responsibility to paydebts

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/withdraw

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...legal+entities


Or is your knowledge of the English Language limited to puerilities.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

I would love to share it with you. Unfortunately it seems Vladimir has not only decided to violate it but remove it from the Kremlin website altogether.


http://archive.kremlin.ru/text/docs/2003/01/30632.shtml

"Ошибка 404"

No evidence to support any of what you "search for whatever 30632 is or was. As usual straw dogs, all hat and no cattle, sad.

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1. Try a different search engine.


2. Try this link, seems to work last week, this week, today:

??????? ????? ?????????? ?????????? ?[at]???????? ?[at]?????????????? ?[at]????????????? ????????? ???? ?[at]??????????? ??????? ? ????????? ??????

In Russian, I am presuming there would be a Ukraine copy, hopefully identical.

Here is a machine translation into English:

"Treaty between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on cooperation in the use of the Azov Sea and the Kerch Strait
December 24, 2003


The Russian Federation and Ukraine, hereinafter referred to as the Parties, guided by the relations of friendship and cooperation between the peoples of Russia and Ukraine, historically fraternal bonds between them;

guided by the provisions of the Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership between the Russian Federation and Ukraine of May 31, 1997, as well as the Treaty between the Russian Federation and Ukraine on the Russian-Ukrainian state border of January 28, 2003;

noting the importance of the Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait for the economic development of Russia and Ukraine;

Convinced that all issues relating to the Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait should be resolved only by peaceful means together or with the consent of Russia and Ukraine;

based on the need to preserve the Azov-Kerch water area as an integral economic and natural complex used in the interests of Russia and Ukraine:

agreed on the following:

Article 1

The Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait are historically the inland waters of the Russian Federation and Ukraine.

The Sea of ​​Azov is delimited by the state border line in accordance with the agreement between the Parties.

Settlement of issues relating to the water area of ​​the Kerch Strait, is carried out by agreement between the Parties.

Article 2

1. Commercial vessels and warships, as well as other state vessels flying the flag of the Russian Federation or Ukraine, operated for non-commercial purposes, enjoy freedom of navigation in the Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait.

2. Trade vessels under the flags of third countries may enter the Sea of ​​Azov and pass through the Kerch Strait if they are sent to or returned from the Russian or Ukrainian port.

3. Warships and other state vessels of third countries, operated for non-commercial purposes, may enter the Sea of ​​Azov and pass through the Kerch Strait if they are sent on a visit or business call to the port of one of the Parties at its invitation with permission agreed with the other the side.

Article 3

Russian-Ukrainian cooperation, including joint activities in the field of shipping, including its regulation and navigation and hydrographic support, fisheries, protection of the marine environment, environmental safety, as well as search and rescue in the Sea of ​​Azov and the Kerch Strait, are provided as the implementation of existing agreements and the conclusion, in appropriate cases, of new arrangements.

Article 4

Disputes between the Parties relating to the interpretation and application of this Agreement shall be resolved through consultation and negotiation, as well as other peaceful means, at the option of the Parties.

Article 5

This Treaty is subject to ratification and shall enter into force on the date of the exchange of instruments of ratification of the Parties.

Changes and additions to this Agreement are drawn up in separate protocols, which enter into force in accordance with the procedure described in paragraph 1 of this Article.

Done in Kerch on December 24, 2003, in duplicate, each in Russian and Ukrainian, both texts being equally authentic."

There will of course be additions/new arrangements as specified in article 3 above. Especially since the completion of the bridge across the straight, from Russian mainland to the Crimea island province of Russia.

Probably under the general heading of "Russian National Security", Health and safety, Protection of Human Rights/Environment/Fish etc.

As many countries seem to do these days.

I hope it helps you.