Thread: Chinese experiment which 'edits' DNA of human embryos ignites ethical controversy

Biologists in China have carried out the first experiment to alter the DNA of human embryos, igniting an outcry from scientists who warn against altering the human genome in a way that could last for generations.



The experiment used a controversial technique called CRISPR/Cas9, and represents a biological version of the "find and replace" function on a word processing program.

Scientists introduced enzymes that first bind to a mutated gene, such as one associated with disease, and then replace or repair it.

The study's lead author Junjiu Huang, of Sun Yat-sen University in Guangzhou, and his team experimented on 86 one-cell human embryos, all from fertility clinics, that because of chromosomal defects were unable to develop into a baby.

Their target was a gene called HBB, which can cause the blood disease beta thalassemia.

About a dozen embryos did not even survive the genome-editing, the scientists reported, and of the surviving embryos, many showed "off-target" effects meaning genes other than HBB were altered.

Other embryos suffered "untoward mutations" and only a handful of embryos contained the healthy DNA meant to repair the defective HBB genes.

Mr Huang told Nature News that if this was done on normal embryos "you need to be close to 100 per cent" on target in terms of fixing only the target gene.

The study appeared last weekend in an obscure online journal called Protein & Cell, and an interview was published on Wednesday on the Nature journal website ,in which Mr Huang said both Nature and Science rejected the paper, partly for ethical reasons.

The controversy behind the research

At least half a dozen experiments have been planned or are underway using CRISPR on human eggs or embryos to correct genetic defects such as those causing cystic fibrosis or the BRCA1 breast cancer gene, the MIT magazine Technology Review recently reported.

However, a call for a global moratorium on such experiments was delivered last month by chief executive of California-based Sangamo BioSciences Inc, Edward Lanphier, and part of a group of scientists.

Mr Lanphier said there have been "persistent rumours" of this kind of research taking place in China and this paper "takes it out of the hypothetical and into the real".

Scientists warn that altering the DNA of human sperm, eggs, or embryos could produce unknown effects on future generations, since the changes are passed on to offspring.

They distinguish this type of so-called germ line engineering from that which alters the DNA of non-reproductive cells to repair diseased genes.

MIT biologist Rudolf Jaenisch, president of the International Society for Stem Cell Research, said it is too soon to apply these technologies to the human germ line in a clinical setting.

Future of human germ line engineering

Four or more groups in China are also doing similar experiments, Mr Huang told Nature News, which is why Mr Huang and his team have stopped.
Journals Science and Nature said their policies are not to comment on publication decisions.

Springer, which publishes Protein & Cell and is owned by European private equity firm BC Partners, did not immediately reply to questions about its decision to publish Huang's paper.

According to a note in Protein & Cell, the paper was received on March 30 and accepted on April 1, which is a short amount of time for a complicated study to undergo peer review by journal editors and outside scientists.

Mr Lanphier fears that the call for a moratorium on editing the human germ line is being ignored.

"This is the first of what may be many papers" on human germ line engineering, he said.

Reuters


Chinese experiment which 'edits' DNA of human embryos ignites ethical controversy - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

They must have found the "big penis" gene

They should be putting all their effort into replacing all the rare and exotic animals the fuckers keep eating.

Originally Posted by Username2015

I am certain this is nothing new. Being that it is being reported by the mainstream media, and that I am certain the Chinese are not alone in this endeavor, then I am remiss is I do not state that it is the pot calling the kettle black.

Moreover, this scares me. It reminds me of the movie Gattaca, where future mankind populations are controlled at the cellular stage... no chance for dissenters as far as we know.

I guess, were it to come to that, and people were merely drones and upper classes, then I would have to place my hope in the things which DNA modifications could not predict, and that being the human spirit and will.

At the end of the day, were this to be true, then we would certainly find out if we are nothing more than mere machines, and that there are no divine forces outside of us having a hand in our character make-up, and that there is a great beyond.

Is transplanting healthy genes to replace defective ones any different to transplanting organs?

Of course we are machines, simply biological ones.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Username2015

I am certain this is nothing new. Being that it is being reported by the mainstream media, and that I am certain the Chinese are not alone in this endeavor, then I am remiss is I do not state that it is the pot calling the kettle black.

Moreover, this scares me. It reminds me of the movie Gattaca, where future mankind populations are controlled at the cellular stage... no chance for dissenters as far as we know.

I guess, were it to come to that, and people were merely drones and upper classes, then I would have to place my hope in the things which DNA modifications could not predict, and that being the human spirit and will.

At the end of the day, were this to be true, then we would certainly find out if we are nothing more than mere machines, and that there are no divine forces outside of us having a hand in our character make-up, and that there is a great beyond.

Is transplanting healthy genes to replace defective ones any different to transplanting organs?

Of course we are machines, simply biological ones.

Agree with the view, but when has government ever done good for the people when not ruled by the people?

Originally Posted by Username2015

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Username2015

I am certain this is nothing new. Being that it is being reported by the mainstream media, and that I am certain the Chinese are not alone in this endeavor, then I am remiss is I do not state that it is the pot calling the kettle black.

Moreover, this scares me. It reminds me of the movie Gattaca, where future mankind populations are controlled at the cellular stage... no chance for dissenters as far as we know.

I guess, were it to come to that, and people were merely drones and upper classes, then I would have to place my hope in the things which DNA modifications could not predict, and that being the human spirit and will.

At the end of the day, were this to be true, then we would certainly find out if we are nothing more than mere machines, and that there are no divine forces outside of us having a hand in our character make-up, and that there is a great beyond.

Is transplanting healthy genes to replace defective ones any different to transplanting organs?

Of course we are machines, simply biological ones.

Agree with the view, but when has government ever done good for the people when not ruled by the people?

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Username2015

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Username2015

I am certain this is nothing new. Being that it is being reported by the mainstream media, and that I am certain the Chinese are not alone in this endeavor, then I am remiss is I do not state that it is the pot calling the kettle black.

Moreover, this scares me. It reminds me of the movie Gattaca, where future mankind populations are controlled at the cellular stage... no chance for dissenters as far as we know.

I guess, were it to come to that, and people were merely drones and upper classes, then I would have to place my hope in the things which DNA modifications could not predict, and that being the human spirit and will.

At the end of the day, were this to be true, then we would certainly find out if we are nothing more than mere machines, and that there are no divine forces outside of us having a hand in our character make-up, and that there is a great beyond.

Is transplanting healthy genes to replace defective ones any different to transplanting organs?

Of course we are machines, simply biological ones.

Agree with the view, but when has government ever done good for the people when not ruled by the people?

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

No. It is not, HB. I mean that any of this DNA technology will be in the hands of the government (a.k.a. Corporation), and that does not spell good news. Moreover, I submit that the information being released is at least 70 years behind the classified technology they (the government/corporations and military) already have.

Originally Posted by Username2015

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Username2015

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Username2015

I am certain this is nothing new. Being that it is being reported by the mainstream media, and that I am certain the Chinese are not alone in this endeavor, then I am remiss is I do not state that it is the pot calling the kettle black.

Moreover, this scares me. It reminds me of the movie Gattaca, where future mankind populations are controlled at the cellular stage... no chance for dissenters as far as we know.

I guess, were it to come to that, and people were merely drones and upper classes, then I would have to place my hope in the things which DNA modifications could not predict, and that being the human spirit and will.

At the end of the day, were this to be true, then we would certainly find out if we are nothing more than mere machines, and that there are no divine forces outside of us having a hand in our character make-up, and that there is a great beyond.

Is transplanting healthy genes to replace defective ones any different to transplanting organs?

Of course we are machines, simply biological ones.

Agree with the view, but when has government ever done good for the people when not ruled by the people?

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

No. It is not, HB. I mean that any of this DNA technology will be in the hands of the government (a.k.a. Corporation), and that does not spell good news. Moreover, I submit that the information being released is at least 70 years behind the classified technology they (the government/corporations and military) already have.

See now you're just rambling off topic again.

Yawn.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Is transplanting healthy genes to replace defective ones any different to transplanting organs?
.

Uh, actually yes, it is significantly and fundamentally different. The problem with this work is they are doing it at the level of the germ line - they affect DNA that is passed on (inherited) to offspring. You do not pass on the genetic effects of your kidney transplant to your (future) kids.

Very, very different to a transplant.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Username2015

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Username2015

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Is transplanting healthy genes to replace defective ones any different to transplanting organs?

Of course we are machines, simply biological ones.

Agree with the view, but when has government ever done good for the people when not ruled by the people?

Irrelevant to the topic at hand.

No. It is not, HB. I mean that any of this DNA technology will be in the hands of the government (a.k.a. Corporation), and that does not spell good news. Moreover, I submit that the information being released is at least 70 years behind the classified technology they (the government/corporations and military) already have.

See now you're just rambling off topic again.

Yawn.

Thanks for saying so... hypocrite.

Originally Posted by Username2015

. no chance for dissenters as far as we know.

no body will care - tilting at windmills

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Is transplanting healthy genes to replace defective ones any different to transplanting organs?
.

Uh, actually yes, it is significantly and fundamentally different. The problem with this work is they are doing it at the level of the germ line - they affect DNA that is passed on (inherited) to offspring. You do not pass on the genetic effects of your kidney transplant to your (future) kids.

Very, very different to a transplant.

If you don't die of kidney or heart failure, you get to pass your genes on.

*Cough*

Originally Posted by hazz

Yes, that is true, if you were to have a transplant. but then these would be the genes created when that unfortunate egg that created you got stabbed by daddies little sperm.

What the Chinese are going is taking those genes, a process which, by their own admission, is rather messy and error prone. if by some myrical a baby was born out of this process that was viable and not some mysterious freak, its decedents would be born with various amounts of these modified gene's.

Most societies see this as a serious issue, but then I guess a society that sees dissidents as transplant organs don't see in quite the same way.

human life might be cheap in Thailand... but in china it seems to have the same status as a farm animal

I can see the risks, but I can also see the benefits.

The tricky bit is working out the balance.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Is transplanting healthy genes to replace defective ones any different to transplanting organs?
.

Uh, actually yes, it is significantly and fundamentally different. The problem with this work is they are doing it at the level of the germ line - they affect DNA that is passed on (inherited) to offspring. You do not pass on the genetic effects of your kidney transplant to your (future) kids.

Very, very different to a transplant.

If you don't die of kidney or heart failure, you get to pass your genes on.

*Cough*

Your original genes, not the transplanted genes.

Ergo, no change is made.

^No. The work genetically modifies your embryonic DNA which then grows into you so the DNA you pass on will be the genetically modified DNA.

Brave new world.

Originally Posted by baldrick

They must have found the "big penis" gene

They found 2 major strains, so they're naming them after the scientists who discovered them - Lee Vis & Wong La.

Shock horror, the west has been fking genes up for decades!

Originally Posted by Looper

^No. The work genetically modifies your embryonic DNA which then grows into you so the DNA you pass on will be the genetically modified DNA.

Brave new world.

KW was saying a transplant does not alter the DNA you pass on, while this methodology does.

Originally Posted by baldrick

Originally Posted by Username2015

. no chance for dissenters as far as we know.

no body will care - tilting at windmills

I do not know if that is sad and regrettable, or soothing and calming. The jury is still out. How hard does one press in? How much can one do? It really disarms one's character when one looks at it all and considers the seemingly insurmountable odds going on in the world today. It's like being in a room, sitting around looking at each other and waiting to see who will be the first one to stand up and do something... yet no one seems to make a motion... ever.

I think your "tilting at windmills" comment just very well may be a sad epitaph on humanity in general... useful idiots and what not.

Originally Posted by hazz

Yes, that is true, if you were to have a transplant. but then these would be the genes created when that unfortunate egg that created you got stabbed by daddies little sperm.

What the Chinese are going is taking those genes, a process which, by their own admission, is rather messy and error prone. if by some myrical a baby was born out of this process that was viable and not some mysterious freak, its decedents would be born with various amounts of these modified gene's.

Most societies see this as a serious issue, but then I guess a society that sees dissidents as transplant organs don't see in quite the same way.

human life might be cheap in Thailand... but in china it seems to have the same status as a farm animal

And just about everywhere else as well, don't you think?

Isn't that the feeling that everyone seems to have... deep down inside?

Farm animals... slaves... numbers... drones... useful idiots... etc?

Is this a Jeff Parody?

The germ line is modified in a totally random fashion, good or bad, every time an egg is fertilized.
All this does is introduce choice, which as always has ethical considerations.

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

Shock horror, the west has been fking genes up for decades!

....and applauded romantically [in the usual pompous superior manner] towards such evolutionary binding barbarity.

But let the Chinese take an advanced and dangerous twisted development to these levels, and such models are critiqued harshly.
[because they're Oriental]