Aramco vs Statoil. Muzzie bashers welcome.

[HermantheGerman]

Well, maybe not quite.
But maybe about East vs West....Muslim vs Christians.....Arrogant vs Wise, take your pick or feel free to add.


By ABDULATEEF AL-MULHIM | ARAB NEWS
What Norway's Statoil did, that Saudi Aramco could not do

Oil was discovered in Norway on Dec. 23, 1969.
On June, 14, 1972, Statoil was created as an integrated state-owned oil company. I have studied the effect that this company had on Norway during my brief time at Old Dominion University while taking courses for my master's degree in political science (The politics of oil). We had to study about the seven sisters, yet all our talk in the class was about Aramco and Statoil. The resemblances were more than what I thought.
Oil was discovered in Saudi Arabia in 1938 when the geologists in Bahrain saw similarities with some sites in Saudi Arabia. The discovery of gas by Esso and Shell in 1959 at Groningen in the Netherlands in 1959, prompted some companies to look further north.
Discovery of other fields in the North Sea continued. And Norway became a very strong player in the oil and gas industry.
The most important thing Statoil did was to be listed on the Oslo and New York stock exchange in 2001. Also the company got involved in the daily life of the Norwegians. A very short time ago Norway announced that the Norwegian government pension fund generated by the oil wealth rose to 3 trillion kroner. This means every Norwegian man, women, young and old, has about $120,000 in his/her bank account. The total Norwegian oil production has always been around 2 million barrels per day. Also it is exporting oil and gas technology. They have supported arts, sports and any talent.
Saudi Aramco had served the Saudis in every day life. They improved agriculture and in the past they had one of the best health care services in the world. They have educated young Saudis since the 1930s. They built roads and schools and education centers. They have a housing fund for their employees that has no parallel in the world. They run a good library. I remember borrowing books from the library when I was only 13 years old. They have a mobile library as well. Aramco has a social presentation for the orphans of the area.
Saudi Aramco is a social institution in every aspect. People want Saudi Aramco to be the planner, the budgeter and the builder. We have faith in their planning.
This means Saudi Aramco’s role has to be bigger. Oil prices are always going up and their projects are in the billions.
After 77 years Saudi Aramco still imports technologies. Why” And why did they stop building schools when people were waiting for them to build a university or an institute outside their camp? When I heard of the multibillion projects that were planned by Saudi Aramco, I opened next day’s Saudi newspapers hoping to see a number of job openings for Saudis. In the Eest, when a billion dollar project is announced, there is an accompanying news items about the new jobs associated with the mega project. Otherwise public will have no interest in such news.
If Statoil can do for the Norwegians what they did with 2 million barrels per day, Saudi Aramco should do more for Saudis with about 10 million barrels per day.
So, what Norway's Statoil did, that Saudi Armaco could not do is exporting technology, stock exchange and a university called (Aramco Institute of Technology).
— Abdulateef Al-Mulhim is commodore (Retd.), Royal Saudi Navy. He can be contacted at: almulhimnavy[at]hotmail.com

[blue]

its just that Norway full of Europeans,the most intelligent and advanced race in the world.

Saudi Arabia is also hamstrung by a backward religion ,sexism , a harsh climate ,the fact that every other male there is a prince -this guy uses AL in his name, massive immigration to do all the work etc

[ItsRobsLife]

WTF has it got to do with..

Another for the Muzzie bashers Well, maybe not quite.
But maybe about East vs West....Muslim vs Christians.....Arrogant vs Wise, take your pick or feel free to add.

??

Why didn't you just use a title that bears some relevance to the article you've pasted..?

Gotta red you for that Herman.

[CaptainNemo]

No, Norway is full of Norwegians, who were bright enough to stay out of the EU, and to have a culture that keeps their population (and immigration) low (and lucky enough to discover oil and gas than they'll ever need).

There's no such thing as race, and I certainly don't see what Northwest Europeans have got in common with slovenly mediterraneans or violent eastern europeans.

The reason why SA imports so much is arguably because most academics from there are glad to get out and do some interesting work abroad... generally going abroad from whatever country you come from makes you feel good and seem more interesting to other people (on a superficial level), alas, not so many academics are tempted to go there, due to the lack of appeal of the culture, so you end up with agglomerations of academics in hotspot areas where funding follows, and the contrast grows. I suppose if the west does start taking an economic dive, these less culturally attractive places, may decide to set up little science city enclaves where academic expats can earn a lot more and be shielded from the locals and their hateful customs; but somehow, I doubt it will be enough to catch up.
The more interesting question, is whether they can stop the brain drain, and find ways to keep their best people... and to clean up the corruption in their universities... again... where's the incentive for them? They're trying to develop luxury tourism, but they look down on the culture of their customers... how can Arab countries (apart from Egypt) seriously compete with the charms of laid back fun and easy pussy in so many parts of latin america and eastern asia?

[HermantheGerman]

No, Norway is full of Norwegians, who were bright enough to stay out of the EU, and to have a culture that keeps their population (and immigration) low (and lucky enough to discover oil and gas than they'll ever need).

Bright enough or lucky enough ? I'am sure they would be in the EU if they had no oil

There's no such thing as race (but religion), and I certainly don't see what Northwest Europeans have got in common with slovenly mediterraneans or violent eastern europeans.

The reason why SA imports so much is arguably because most academics from there are glad to get out and do some interesting work abroad... (but don't most of them come back ?)generally going abroad from whatever country you come from makes you feel good and seem more interesting to other people (on a superficial level), alas, not so many academics are tempted to go there, due to the lack of appeal of the culture, so you end up with agglomerations of academics in hotspot areas where funding follows, and the contrast grows. I suppose if the west does start taking an economic dive, these less culturally attractive places, may decide to set up little science city enclaves where academic expats can earn a lot more and be shielded from the locals and their hateful customs (Silicon Valley did not hurt Europe as most expected); but somehow, I doubt it will be enough to catch up.
The more interesting question, is whether they can stop the brain drain, and find ways to keep their best people... and to clean up the corruption (corruption and islam...) in their universities... again... where's the incentive for them? They're trying to develop luxury tourism, but they look down on the culture of their customers... how can Arab countries (apart from Egypt) seriously compete with the charms of laid back fun and easy pussy in so many parts of latin america and eastern asia?

Fair enough, but this is supposed to be a Muzzie bashing thread

What would SA look like if it was a christian country ? I would say better developed like Norway.

[ItsRobsLife]

It would look the same, unbearably hot and covered in sand, and the people would be no further developed because of the lack of resources in their environment. I couldn't red you last time and damn if I can't red you again. Can't you just start another thread with something that does actually bash Islam, I'm sure it won't be hard to find.

[sabang]

Norway has the distinction of being one of the best and most enlightened systems of governance in the world today. Kudos. They have taken care of their peoples tomorrow, as well as today. Quite a contrast to the USA and UK and several other countries, who have seen fit to mortgage their childrens future.

Comparisons with the Saud family sheikdom are strained, at best. Probably the main one being oil wealth- and lets call a spade a spade, thats lucky. I'm no fan of the Saud's or their system, but I can credit them with being smart, or at least cunning. This comes back to Aramco- the largest oil company in the world, 100% owned by Saudi Arabia. They acquired 100% control in 1980. Depending on how far back you go before that, it had been majority owned by US interests (Aramco = Arabian American oil company). Now, a western businessman might accuse me of being a traitor, but a nation would be stupid to cede control of it's mineral reserves to johny foreigner, just plain stoopid. You should always keep national ownership of your untapped mineral reserves.

However, while buying back and retaining ownership of it's massive oil reserves, the camel jockeys also needed foreign expertise, and obviously markets. They are very close to American interests, have been for many years, and thats smart- get with the strength and all that. So now the USA is in the position of not only being invaluable to saudi oil production (obviously, not for charity), but in fact stands behind the Sauds and props them up, acts as a guarantor for their national security- which, bearing in mind this is a family owned sheikdom to all intents and purposes, means the extended Saud family. From a pure self interest perspective, thats pretty smart. They have built a position of mutual dependency with the worlds sole superpower, to the benefit of both.

And what on earth this thread has to do with muzzie bashing eludes me too Herman.

[CaptainNemo]

I don't see how changing one parameter on a country would transform it into another!

Ultimately, countries, in fact, ethnic groups, and their cultures are a result of adaptation to an environment... the phenotypes that characterise ethnic groups are the manifestation of genotypes adapting to the environment... blonde fair-skinned scandinavians with different ocular DNA, loss of lactose intolerance and the manufacturing of vitamin D are a response to lower levels of sunlight etc... similarly, the culture of a people compelled by the search for food and resources on the coasts of a fairly isolated rocky peninsular are bound to be a bit different from those living in the world's biggest sand pit.

The Norwegians didn't become Christian until about 3-400 years after Islam had consumed the near east, and a lot of good maths "Al Gebra" (and "Algorithm" -> Algoritmi -> al-Khwārizmī) resulted during the European dark ages, that was brought to an end with the rise of the Ottomans.

So Arabia before that lovable moon-worshipping paedophile got his cult going? It was just a zone of little semitic kingdoms, with a lunar trinity goddess... they would most likely have become Orthodox Christian... like Copts and Ethiopians, and I wouldn't be surprised if this religious unity might have enabled Russia to have had a much more dominant role in the region... which, with the history of Russian expansionism could have seen the Russians rivalling or outdoing the British... imagine the effects of a communist revolution in a Russian empire effectively twice as big as what was seen in the 20th centtury! reaching from Canada to Spain; from Norway down to the Sahel, and having a greater influence in India, Iran, and China... we could be living in the results of a Russian world, rather than a British one... with Russian values being the norm... perhaps the USA would never have existed, and 1984 might really have been more like 1984... nature abhors a vacuum... you take away Islam, you never know what might take it's place... chances are it wouldn't be jolly apple-pie protestantism in SA!

It's hard to say what Norway would have done had it had no oil... bearing in mind that it found oil in the 1960s
Norway

...what was the world like then? I'd suggest that Norway would have been a prime candidate for "Finlandisation" by the Soviet Union... along with Sweden.

Religion is just another word for politics; it all equates to ideology - or rather "hey I know how to tell you what's best for you" etc...

Many academics are sent back (often to very lucrative high-status careers as corruptocrats in their countries of origin)... but many are taken on as lecturers and researchers because natives will often find better jobs and don't regard a career in academia with the same reverence as Asians do.

Silicon Valley robbed Britain of it's lead in the computers and electronics industry, we were stuck with shithead socialists wrecking all that centuries of ruthless capitalism had built up!

I don't think corruption is connected to religion - just to culture... in developing countries you have this client-patron relationship (it pervades the immigrant communities here), we lost it during the industrial revolution over the course of many decades of strife... these 3rd world countries have reaped the benefits of our culture whilst not having to evolve beyond theirs, simply because it suits us to use our shiny shite to bribe them to acquire their resources and cheap labour to maintain our perpetual growth.... a bit short sighted really... just like giving shotguns to chimpanzees.

[sabang]

take away Islam, you never know what might take it's place.

True. There is a certain intellectual sport in 'what if' scenario's, such as wotif Hitler had won, wotif the Brit's had got stubborn and decided to hang on to the American colonies, wotif there had been no Communist revolution, etc.

You probably get this more than everage as a brit actually, given Empire and historical grudges. My generic answer is "Wotif if pigs could fly? Then we'd all be covered in shit". We deal with what is, not what might have been.

"Finlandisation"

Heroic nation actually. Check out the Winter war. Carnt be that easy neighbouring a behemoth, and retaining your national identity.

[CaptainNemo]

.
Heroic nation actually. Check out the Winter war. Carnt be that easy neighbouring a behemoth, and retaining your national identity.

Imagine doing so living next to a mega mosque:
Islamic sect’s plan to build mega-mosque next to Olympics site collapses -Times Online

[DrAndy]

its just that Norway full of Europeans,the most intelligent and advanced race in the world.

very amusing but for the fact you probably believe your own drivel

[HermantheGerman]

It would look the same, unbearably hot and covered in sand, and the people would be no further developed because of the lack of resources in their environment. I couldn't red you last time and damn if I can't red you again. Can't you just start another thread with something that does actually bash Islam, I'm sure it won't be hard to find.

Are the Saudis realy covered only with sand ?
With Saudi Arabia 2640km coastline I'am sure you could attract some foreigners. But with freaks like these in the water you might have a problem attracting women tourists. Norway with its temp is'nt the world attraction either.

[Pol the Pot]

What's the difference between an ethnic group and a race?

[smeden]

as a coment to this tread the norwegian statoil are ok but the norwegian dit not find any oil they hired a american company to make the first exploration

[HermantheGerman]

Unrest eases in Algeria as prices drop
By Beatrice Khadige (AFP) – 5 hours ago
ALGIERS — Algeria began cleaning up Monday after days of rioting over soaring food costs that left five people dead, hundreds wounded and 1,000 in jail, as authorities firmed up pledges to drop prices.
Businesses, schools and public services opened as normal in much of the country as unrest that kicked off Wednesday last week eased after the government announced after emergency talks that it would rein in prices.
Media reported Monday that about 70 educational institutions were damaged in the clashes, which hit several parts of the capital Algiers and spread to other cities.
However classes started resuming as normal on Sunday, an education ministry official said in the El Watan newspaper.
A number of government buildings were also attacked or set alight, although no figure has been released, and several businesses looted.
Security forces, deployed in strength in several areas, were ordered to show restraint, Interior Minister Dahou Ould Kablia said, adding though that most of the 800 wounded were police or gendarmes.
Authorities had "started to repair what is repairable, with the priority being schools and public establishments," the minister told AFP, describing the damage as "immense".
The violence erupted after deep anger at increases in prices for basic goods, some of which have risen by as much as 30 percent since January 1.
Commerce Minister Mustapha Benbada held urgent talks Sunday with economic players who focussed on lowering the prices of sugar and cooking oil, the costs of which rose the most steeply this month.
The government also pledged to continue to subsidise the costs of basic foodstuffs and announced on Saturday a temporary cut in customs duties and taxes on sugar and food oils.
The price of a kilogramme of sugar is to drop to 90 dinars (about 0.90 euro), from a high of between 120 to 140 dinars, while five litres of oil was down to 600 dinars (about six euros) after soaring to 900-1,000 dinars.
However there was no sign of a fall in prices on Monday, with shopkeepers apparently waiting to see what would happen before restocking.
"I read in the press that the prices will fall but I am still waiting to see the rate that the wholesalers will fix," said the owner of one small supermarket where the shelves for oil were empty.
In oil-and-gas rich Algeria the minimum monthly salary is only 15,000 dinars while the average is around 25,000 dinars, the price of a simple fridge or the rent on a two-room apartment in Algiers.
The unrest in the country, under a state of emergency following a civil war with Islamist extremists in the 1990s, came as the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation food price index hit its highest level since it began in 1990.
Witnesses said rioters had started to face resistance from among the population, with one of the five killed reportedly a 36-year-old man trying to protect his father's alcohol store 340 kilometres (210 miles) west of Algiers.
The latest fatality was a 65-year-old taxi driver who died in hospital on Sunday after inhaling tear gas the day before, during clashes between rioters and security forces in the eastern town of Annaba, reports said.
Officials said around 1,100 people were arrested.
Parents of minors involved in the arrested were summoned, and the Algerian League of Human Rights said adults found guilty of involvement in violence or damage faced up to two years in prison.

[CaptainNemo]

What's the difference between an ethnic group and a race?

That's easy... the term "ethnic group" has a definition; the term "race" does not, it's an anachronism from the 19th century.

Have a google, and see if you can pin the tail on the donkey of the term "race".
It's amazing that there are so many laws about it, when the definitions chase their own tails so much... we now have the term "BME", which, to be honest, almost anyone can be a part of if they do enough genealogy, there's no threshold criteria for "raceness"... it's undefined as a concept; you just "know it when you see it", and what you see is "ethnos", or "ethnic group".

Ethnic group is essentially a set of phenotypes combined with a set of cultural "items", e.g.: language, food, dress, etiquette/norms, social structure, beliefs/religion. "phenotypes" are the usually obvious bits of the way someone looks, e.g.: nose, hair, skin/eye/hair colour, bone structure; as well as unseen internal stuff such as suceptibility to types of conditions. A phenotype is comprised of genotype modified by adaptations to an environment (alleleomorphs or alleles)... a small step in evolution in a particular direction at some point in the past, such as eyelids, body size/shape (skeleton), skin/eye/hair colour etc...
Ethnic groups can be fairly clearly described using Y-chromosome and mtDNA gene cluster "maps" (little pie charts), so you can see tendencies of groups of people to share certain commonalities.
You kind of know when you look at a group of Somalians and Zulus; Japanese and Chinese; Italians and Swedes, that they are subtly different in appearance... to call them them the same "race" is a bit meaningless... especially when you get to "transition zones" like Burma or Azerbaijan or Sudan.

[Pol the Pot]

To me it seems ethnicity is just more precise than race, that's all. I wouldn't lump people of roughly the same physical attributes together but if you split it up into ethnic groups, meaning more diversity, meaning good, you could consider yourself to be ethnically conscious, which is actually PC for being simply racist.

[socal]

No, Norway is full of Norwegians, who were bright enough to stay out of the EU, and to have a culture that keeps their population (and immigration) low (and lucky enough to discover oil and gas than they'll ever need).

Bright enough or lucky enough ? I'am sure they would be in the EU if they had no oil

There's no such thing as race (but religion), and I certainly don't see what Northwest Europeans have got in common with slovenly mediterraneans or violent eastern europeans.

The reason why SA imports so much is arguably because most academics from there are glad to get out and do some interesting work abroad... (but don't most of them come back ?)generally going abroad from whatever country you come from makes you feel good and seem more interesting to other people (on a superficial level), alas, not so many academics are tempted to go there, due to the lack of appeal of the culture, so you end up with agglomerations of academics in hotspot areas where funding follows, and the contrast grows. I suppose if the west does start taking an economic dive, these less culturally attractive places, may decide to set up little science city enclaves where academic expats can earn a lot more and be shielded from the locals and their hateful customs (Silicon Valley did not hurt Europe as most expected); but somehow, I doubt it will be enough to catch up.
The more interesting question, is whether they can stop the brain drain, and find ways to keep their best people... and to clean up the corruption (corruption and islam...) in their universities... again... where's the incentive for them? They're trying to develop luxury tourism, but they look down on the culture of their customers... how can Arab countries (apart from Egypt) seriously compete with the charms of laid back fun and easy pussy in so many parts of latin america and eastern asia?

Fair enough, but this is supposed to be a Muzzie bashing thread

What would SA look like if it was a christian country ? I would say better developed like Norway.

I am working for Statoil right now. They have a huge project in Northern Canada.

I don't think you have done any research on the petrol dollar relationship that Saudi Arabia has with the US. A full explanation is here- FOFOA: Search results for Flow Addendum

[socal]

It would look the same, unbearably hot and covered in sand, and the people would be no further developed because of the lack of resources in their environment. I couldn't red you last time and damn if I can't red you again. Can't you just start another thread with something that does actually bash Islam, I'm sure it won't be hard to find.

Look what the jews did with their pile of sand, and they have no oil compared to SA.

[Pol the Pot]

It would look the same, unbearably hot and covered in sand, and the people would be no further developed because of the lack of resources in their environment. I couldn't red you last time and damn if I can't red you again. Can't you just start another thread with something that does actually bash Islam, I'm sure it won't be hard to find.

Look what the jews did with their pile of sand, and they have no oil compared to SA.

They've been exploiting it since the 60s to the extreme.

Now it's just a desert. When the Jordan runs dry in about 5 years it'll be over.

Do keep up.

[CaptainNemo]

To me it seems ethnicity is just more precise than race, that's all. I wouldn't lump people of roughly the same physical attributes together but if you split it up into ethnic groups, meaning more diversity, meaning good, you could consider yourself to be ethnically conscious, which is actually PC for being simply racist.

There is no such thing as race. It doesn't exist. Nor does Colbert's "truthiness".
The only people who are "racists" are people who believe that race exists. It doesn't.
If it did, you could define it. You can't; so it doesn't.
Ethnicity is not more precise than race, because for it to be more precise, then race would have to have a definition to allow you to compare how much more precise the term "ethnicity" is; but because race doesn't have a definition, then you can't compare anything to it.
You may as well say that jam is more precise than "race", because the term "race" is undefined - it doesn't mean anything as a concept or as a word.
(...nor does "diversity", in americanised IngSoc newspeak).

more diversity, meaning good, you could consider yourself to be ethnically conscious,

Why does "more diversity = good"?
"more" is a scalar concept; "good" is a vector concept. They are apples and pears.
The simple fact of more or less of something existing has no causational or correlational relationship with it's moral excellence (or lack thereof).

If you were more "ethnically conscious", you would more aware that ethnicity exists and that race doesn't. If you are racist then you believe that "race" exists and don't really understand what "ethnicity" means, and you might be a disciple of the fascist British Labour Party (aka "IngSoc").

(this isn't a lecture directed at you really, btw, just a clarification of a point).

[Pol the Pot]

Uh, I hear you.

I've heard 'ethnically conscious' being bandied around by people who a couple of years ago would have been more direct.

[CaptainNemo]

Aye, nothing the lefties have come up with beats "paki", "coon", or "chink" for expressing all of that academic drivel succinctly.
I think the Thais deserver their own epithet though really, it's only fair.