Thread: The Universe. Whats out there?

Originally Posted by The Gentleman Scamp

Water is wet,

Is it ????

Originally Posted by jandajoy

Originally Posted by The Gentleman Scamp

Water is wet,

Is it ????

Is water wet? - CreateDebate

Maybe, maybe not...

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

It's looking increasingly likely that it wont happen for decades, so I hope you are not old...

Sadly I agree. Obama scrapped the present programs. But he started a new one, developing a new generation of rockets from scrap, stating he is going to see the mars landing. So there would be hope for me too as I plan to be around in thirty years time when I will be 90. But will I be alert enough to care?

Space is where it is at , all the answers are out there and none of us will live to see it.

What is interesting is what type of activity is taking place in the international space station ? There is very little accurate published information on what goes on up there.

Originally Posted by Takeovers

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

It's looking increasingly likely that it wont happen for decades, so I hope you are not old...

Sadly I agree. Obama scrapped the present programs. But he started a new one, developing a new generation of rockets from scrap, stating he is going to see the mars landing. So there would be hope for me too as I plan to be around in thirty years time when I will be 90. But will I be alert enough to care?

Obama scrapped the present programs as he realized they were absolute cash cows for Bush cronies who where reaping in millions of dollars every year with lucrative NASA contracts.

Originally Posted by Ghandi

Obama scrapped the present programs as he realized they were absolute cash cows for Bush cronies who where reaping in millions of dollars every year with lucrative NASA contracts.

Possible, I have heard that too. A pity though as I liked the design even before the decision was made.

And I don't really know what it will be replaced with. Something completely new for interplanetary distances but there is really not anything revolutionary waiting in the wings. It also means that the US will have no manned capability at all for a long time, most likely more than 10 years.

http://s.ngeo.com/wpf/media-live/pho...85_600x450.jpg

Two extremely dense stars in an intimate dance are spinning around each other in just 5.4 minutes—making them the fastest known stellar partners in the galaxy, astronomers have confirmed.
To have such a speedy orbit, the stars must be moving at about 310 miles (500 kilometers) a second, the team calculates.
The whirling duo, known as HM Cancri, also has the tightest orbit of any known "binary" star system. (Related: "First Proof 'Tight' Double Suns Can Have Planets.")
Both stars are white dwarfs—the dense, white-hot remnants left behind when sunlike stars die. The stellar corpses are separated by no more than three times the width of Earth.
In such tight quarters, hot gases flow between the two stars, releasing huge amounts of energy.
"This is the most extreme example of one of these double white dwarf systems we have so far," said study co-author Danny Steeghs of the University of Warwick in the U.K.

Great idea for a thread melv, I love space stuff.

This is an awesome thread -- well done!

Originally Posted by sabang

Or was, because it's 4900 light years away. So for all we know, it may no longer exist.

5,000 years is a blink of the sun's eye... Good chances it's still around.

The light hitting us is 5,000 years old, though, and THAT gives you pause.



Damn good and humbling link!

I guess the world were all seeking beyond Central World and Zen is
Cosmic

A thought for today. And no, I dont smoke that shit.

If you had a bottle and sucked all the air out of it till there was only a vacuum. How would you measure the size of the vacuum? Would it be the size of the inside of the bottle? But since a vacuum is just nothingness, wouldn't a cubic cm of nothingness have the same dimensions as a larger bit?

What it comes down to is that we can only measure space (nothingness) by whats in or around it. The nothingness can extend to infinity. It never has to end because it never started. its just, well nothing. Giving space some kind of an honorary status as a tangible substance is very human. Its all the physical stuff out there in space interacting that makes it look like space is distorted to us.
Imagine every source of light, X Rays, Gamma rays etc like expanding balloons pushing out from a central point exponentially expanding in all directions. They start pushing on each-other eventually, distorting their shape as they fill the vacant space and squeeze past each other. No longer the perfect spherical shapes as started, but squashed and distorted in all directions.

Then add gravity into the equation. A force of matter that is known to actually suck in electromagnetic radiation. Instead of the repulsive force that causes EM energy to expand infinitely, gravity turns it all around and sucks it all in at an accelerating rate. No wonder nothing travels in a straight line through space.
But doesn't mean that space is distorted. Nothing can distort something that does not exist in the first place. The idea that space can be distorted by matter and EM energy is just our way of maintaining our earthly concept that everything with velocity travels in a straight line and therefore it must be the medium it travels through that distorts its path.

And there's the dark matter theory....

Originally Posted by Panda

If you had a bottle and sucked all the air out of it till there was only a vacuum.

How would you measure the size of the vacuum? Would it be the size of the inside of the bottle? But since a vacuum is just nothingness, wouldn't a cubic cm of nothingness have the same dimensions as a larger bit?

A vacuum is the size of the container holding it. It is only a space (3 dimensional) that doesn't have matter. Suck all the matter out of a room, and you still have the same size room.

What it comes down to is that we can only measure space (nothingness) by whats in or around it. The nothingness can extend to infinity.

It isn't nothingness though, it's the dimensions of space/time. Masses in the universe distorts it.

High-precision test of general relativity by the Cassini space probe (artist's impression): radio signals sent between the Earth and the probe (green wave) are delayed by the warping of space and time (blue lines) due to the Sun's mass.

the universe (space/time) is distorted by mass. If it is distorted it has to be more than nothing, it is something.

Giving space some kind of an honorary status as a tangible substance is very human.

It is a tangible substance though. Time exists there, as does 3 dimensional space.

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

Time exists there, as does 3 dimensional space.

And there may be 4th dimensions that humans are not even cable of viewing.

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

Time exists there

Originally Posted by Ghandi

4th dimension

one and the same , no ?

Time, what nonsense.

If infinity is

Time ceases to exist.

It's just a partitioning of events that suits us.

Allows us to have some semblance of a vision of a wish of a desire of control.

What we ain't got.

Originally Posted by jandajoy

Time ceases to exist.

eternal life for astronauts ?

Originally Posted by Mid

eternal life for astronauts ?

Nice idea but, flesh goes the the way of all good earth.

However, suspend animation............ now we're talking.

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

Originally Posted by Panda

If you had a bottle and sucked all the air out of it till there was only a vacuum.

How would you measure the size of the vacuum? Would it be the size of the inside of the bottle? But since a vacuum is just nothingness, wouldn't a cubic cm of nothingness have the same dimensions as a larger bit?

A vacuum is the size of the container holding it. It is only a space (3 dimensional) that doesn't have matter. Suck all the matter out of a room, and you still have the same size room.

What it comes down to is that we can only measure space (nothingness) by whats in or around it. The nothingness can extend to infinity.

It isn't nothingness though, it's the dimensions of space/time. Masses in the universe distorts it.

High-precision test of general relativity by the Cassini space probe (artist's impression): radio signals sent between the Earth and the probe (green wave) are delayed by the warping of space and time (blue lines) due to the Sun's mass.

the universe (space/time) is distorted by mass. If it is distorted it has to be more than nothing, it is something.

Giving space some kind of an honorary status as a tangible substance is very human.

It is a tangible substance though. Time exists there, as does 3 dimensional space.

It depends how you want to look at it. I cant go along with the concept that nothing (space) has physical properties that can be manipulated by matter.

EG: take a look at your illustration above. It depicts space being warped by gravity, and therefore the EM signal from the satellite travels a convoluted path through space to get to earth. This means the signal takes longer to get between the two points than if it travelled in a dead straight line. Time appears to be distorted only if you take the direct path as the benchmark.

Now consider that space has nothing to do with the distorted path of the EM signal since space doesn't exist at all, and that the convoluted path of the signal is due only to pushing and pulling of gravity and other EM in the way of the direct line.

You end up with the exact same result. Only difference is that one concept claims the space is warped by gravity to cause the convoluted path of the signal, while the other line of thought is that gravity is acting directly on the EM radiation signal to cause it to bend in its path and take longer to get to its destination.

Its well established that light bends when it passes by a distant star on its way to earth. One way of explaining that would be to state that the gravity of the distant star distorts the space around it and so the light has to go the longer distance through curved space in order to get to us. Another way to look at it would be to concede that gravity has some effect on the light itself and pulls it slightly off course as it passes.

Black holes for example have such immense gravity that light can not escape from them. Even light that passes too close gets sucked in never to continue its journey.

Of course light (and other EM energy) are interchangeable with matter. We found that out when we learned how to make atomic bombs. Destroying a tiny amount of matter creates a lot of EM radiation plus a lot of loose subatomic bits of detritus. It would therefore be quite reasonable to assume that light and matter are simply different forms of the same stuff. A bit like ice and steam are different forms of the same matter with different properties.
Matter being little bundles of EM energy rolled inwards on itself and trapped in an inward spiral with the inherent expansive force now reversed as an attractive force called gravity. Electrons are spinning at near the speed of light the physicists tell us. They have a north and south magnetic pole. In some substances all the electron spin can be lined up along one axis and you end up with a bigger magnet. Pass that magnetic field through a circuit of an electrically conductive material and you get a flow of electrons through the circuit. Called a generator. The flow of electrons causes other electrons to jump in and out of their preferred orbits releasing electromagnetic radiation to be released as photons of light. Known as the light bulb.

EM radiation and matter are closely related and can strongly interact with eachother. It is this interaction which gives the illusion of matter curving space which light travels through.

People used to refer to space as "the ether" a mystical substance that can not be seen because they could not accept the concept of absolute nothingness as space. That concept still prevails and actually works quite well. Either the light itself bends or the space it is travelling through bends due to the gravity of mass.
Either theory works equally well. Just that one assumes matter can affect nothing, while the other assumes matter and EM radiation can interact.

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

Originally Posted by Panda

If you had a bottle and sucked all the air out of it till there was only a vacuum.

How would you measure the size of the vacuum? Would it be the size of the inside of the bottle? But since a vacuum is just nothingness, wouldn't a cubic cm of nothingness have the same dimensions as a larger bit?

A vacuum is the size of the container holding it. It is only a space (3 dimensional) that doesn't have matter. Suck all the matter out of a room, and you still have the same size room.

What it comes down to is that we can only measure space (nothingness) by whats in or around it. The nothingness can extend to infinity.

It isn't nothingness though, it's the dimensions of space/time. Masses in the universe distorts it.

High-precision test of general relativity by the Cassini space probe (artist's impression): radio signals sent between the Earth and the probe (green wave) are delayed by the warping of space and time (blue lines) due to the Sun's mass.

the universe (space/time) is distorted by mass. If it is distorted it has to be more than nothing, it is something.

Giving space some kind of an honorary status as a tangible substance is very human.

It is a tangible substance though. Time exists there, as does 3 dimensional space.

It depends how you want to look at it. I cant go along with the concept that nothing (space) has physical properties that can be manipulated by matter.

EG: take a look at your illustration above. It depicts space being warped by gravity, and therefore the EM signal from the satellite travels a convoluted path through space to get to earth. This means the signal takes longer to get between the two points than if it travelled in a dead straight line. Time appears to be distorted only if you take the direct path as the benchmark.

Now consider that space has nothing to do with the distorted path of the EM signal since space doesn't exist at all, and that the convoluted path of the signal is due only to pushing and pulling of gravity and other EM in the way of the direct line.

You end up with the exact same result. Only difference is that one concept claims the space is warped by gravity to cause the convoluted path of the signal, while the other line of thought is that gravity is acting directly on the EM radiation signal to cause it to bend in its path and take longer to get to its destination.

Its well established that light bends when it passes by a distant star on its way to earth. One way of explaining that would be to state that the gravity of the distant star distorts the space around it and so the light has to go the longer distance through curved space in order to get to us. Another way to look at it would be to concede that gravity has some effect on the light itself and pulls it slightly off course as it passes.

Black holes for example have such immense gravity that light can not escape from them. Even light that passes too close gets sucked in never to continue its journey.

Of course light (and other EM energy) are interchangeable with matter. We found that out when we learned how to make atomic bombs. Destroying a tiny amount of matter creates a lot of EM radiation plus a lot of loose subatomic bits of detritus. It would therefore be quite reasonable to assume that light and matter are simply different forms of the same stuff. A bit like ice and steam are different forms of the same matter with different properties.
Matter being little bundles of EM energy rolled inwards on itself and trapped in an inward spiral with the inherent expansive force now reversed as an attractive force called gravity. Electrons are spinning at near the speed of light the physicists tell us. They have a north and south magnetic pole. In some substances all the electron spin can be lined up along one axis and you end up with a bigger magnet. Pass that magnetic field through a circuit of an electrically conductive material and you get a flow of electrons through the circuit. Called a generator. The flow of electrons causes other electrons to jump in and out of their preferred orbits releasing electromagnetic radiation to be released as photons of light. Known as the light bulb.

EM radiation and matter are closely related and can strongly interact with eachother. It is this interaction which gives the illusion of matter curving space which light travels through.

People used to refer to space as "the ether" a mystical substance that can not be seen because they could not accept the concept of absolute nothingness as space. That concept still prevails and actually works quite well. Either the light itself bends or the space it is travelling through bends due to the gravity of mass.
Either theory works equally well. Just that one assumes matter can affect nothing, while the other assumes matter and EM radiation can interact.

shit, gotta advertise my ignorance. whats EM??.

What's out there isn't near as interesting as what living being constitutes its existence. I see it as the "atomic" structure of something large .. very large.