Thread: Do you advise your kids to pursue academics or trades?

Originally Posted by ltnt

In today's world best advise them to learn how to suck the system dry...no need to work. As many posters have advised its not worth doing you know, working is for fools.

Iceman, you do see the sarcasm icon?

Actually I tried to advise, but seems an 18 year old really doesn't have much of an attention span...He attended the University of his choice, took the easy route, he even had access to all his course tests prior to taking them...finished with a 2.0 GPA, a drug habit, alcoholic and generally pretty much just as empty as an old fruit jar.

Eventually he found his way, but I lost contact over time and his excesses...to bad he was a great kid and I really enjoyed being part of his childhood.

Never know how its going to turn out.

Originally Posted by ltnt

Actually I tried to advise, but seems an 18 year old really doesn't have much of an attention span...He attended the University of his choice, took the easy route, he even had access to all his course tests prior to taking them...finished with a 2.0 GPA, a drug habit, alcoholic and generally pretty much just as empty as an old fruit jar.

Eventually he found his way, but I lost contact over time and his excesses...to bad he was a great kid and I really enjoyed being part of his childhood.

Never know how its going to turn out.

Are you talking about your own flesh and blood?

Originally Posted by jamescollister

I started out as a telecoms technician, government paid for me to go to their training college. Cold war and all that crap, expanding phone systems etc. kept me in good jobs in 3 different countries for years. New technology arrived, last job in that field, UK, exchange had over 200 techs, now a maintenance man an maybe a cleaner, if that.
Guessing what jobs will be around in 20 years is like guessing the lottery numbers.

Continuing education.

Your schooling - be it college or trades, only provides the foundation. If you are smart, you will ensure that it is a most solid foundation. You must, at all costs, continue your education as the only thing you can be sure of is change.

Personally, I am always going to "school" in one form or another. Usually I can get my employer to foot-the-bill, sometimes though it is out of my own pocket.

If you do not keep "up to date" you will fall by the wayside without marketable skills.


Primary example is how fast the computer segment evolves.

Originally Posted by baldrick

in the corporate arena to be promoted past a level it is pretty well essential to have a degree - but what university it comes from will matter little as long as it is a wersten uni

If you sign on to the large corporation and become "one-of-them" your advancement is on a path. Your higher education paid for by them (you see the cost of a MBA these days). Of course, you give up your individuality when you become a player. Yes, there are exception to this rule.

Many see the cost of college as nothing more than the entrance fee.

Originally Posted by nigelandjan

I advised one of my neighbours sons to go and work in Dubai or somewhere similar about 3000 plus miles away

That's some pretty self-serving advice. Did he listen?

Originally Posted by Neverna

In the UK, most twenty-somethings have already decided on their path (Uni-18, trades -16/17/18). Is it different in the USA?

Yes, its different. Most, not all but most, say they are clueless or have many possible paths in their future.

Originally Posted by Neverna

From my experience, choosing a good employer is one of the most important things. Choose wisely if you can.

This is problematic in the USA these days. Jobs, and employees, are primarily temporary. I even had a higher up tell me his company refuses to employee someone for more than three years. (after three years they are considered useless as the company has sucked all the benefit they can bring to the company out of them).

In the US you get higher pay by changing jobs. Raises over the past decade or so are minimal or non-existent.

The definitive advice:

Never challenge convention or established homogeny.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

My twins are almost 16 and have no idea what they want to do in life - nor did I at that age. I am going to send them off to college. Once they get a four-year degree (BA), my responsibility ends.

At that point, I've done my part as far as providing options.

If they then decide they want to be woodworkers, construction workers, bartenders, or whatever, it's their call.

But, they'll have an education if they want to pursue careers which require a degree.

Davis,

I understand the point you make although as a parent your responsibility never really ends.

In your opinion, on the basis of your experiences, how would you advise them to prepare for the future?

My military service and training was the best decision I ever made. My fathers advice, not against it but not for it was, in his words "I hope you like chickenshit". Three year army vet - Korean war.

How would you advise your children concerning a military career? Would you advise them for or against or not offer an opinion?

With or without the sheepskin, enlisted, officer? The possibility of death? The discipline? The hardship on family life? High divorce rate? High suicide rate?, etc.

Originally Posted by ltnt

Eventually he found his way, but I lost contact over time and his excesses...to bad he was a great kid and I really enjoyed being part of his childhood.
Never know how its going to turn out.

Some lessons have to be learned by first hand experience. It is hoped it was a brief detour and he quickly resumed a good and successful path.

You really "Never know how its going to turn out."

I have developed some of the best products to service markets around the world but I know now those opportunities are dead.

Maintenence of existing manufacturing plants is the go! Electrical, pnuematic, hydraulic, cranes and anything to do with keeping a place running.

You will have a highly paid job for the rest of your life!

Originally Posted by Loy Toy

Maintenence of existing manufacturing plants is the go! Electrical, pnuematic, hydraulic, cranes and anything to do with keeping a place running.
You will have a highly paid job for the rest of your life!

I fully agree.

If you can fix things - you will never want for a job.

Of course, you have to be born with the talent - some things can't really be learned from a book.

Originally Posted by Neverna

^ They are trades, WTF - electricians, mechanics, maintenance fitters, etc.

Yep, they are trades.

My point on that is, you need to be born with the talent.

You cannot learn how to use your hands out of a textbook. Although effective troubleshooting skills can be enhanced academically. You still need the talent.

Yet, in the US we have promulgated the fairy tale of the four year college degree guaranteeing a good paying job.

How many students do we have graduating college with English, fine arts, political science, etc. degrees, expecting gainful employment based on their uhm... "advanced high school" sheepskin. And many of these saddled with student debt.


If your are fortunate to be born with a tradesman's talent, you will do well. Of course, you will have to get your hands dirty. Just remember to wash up before you go to the dinner table or ...

Originally Posted by bowie

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

My twins are almost 16 and have no idea what they want to do in life - nor did I at that age. I am going to send them off to college. Once they get a four-year degree (BA), my responsibility ends.

At that point, I've done my part as far as providing options.

If they then decide they want to be woodworkers, construction workers, bartenders, or whatever, it's their call.

But, they'll have an education if they want to pursue careers which require a degree.

Davis,

I understand the point you make although as a parent your responsibility never really ends.

In your opinion, on the basis of your experiences, how would you advise them to prepare for the future?

My military service and training was the best decision I ever made. My fathers advice, not against it but not for it was, in his words "I hope you like chickenshit". Three year army vet - Korean war.

How would you advise your children concerning a military career? Would you advise them for or against or not offer an opinion?

With or without the sheepskin, enlisted, officer? The possibility of death? The discipline? The hardship on family life? High divorce rate? High suicide rate?, etc.

As I think you know, I meant my responsibility for preparing them to make good decisions on their own is over - of course your kids will always be your kids.

I was wise enough at 18 to know that college, at that point in my life, was not for me. I went into the Army, then to RVN, and ended a three-year hitch as a Staff Sergeant - at 21. I then went to college, on GI Bill, and paid my own way.

On completing a BA, I then worked for the USG for another 25 years. A great benefit of 28 years of USG service is a very good pension, for me and then my wife when I croak, and great health insurance for my whole family.

Would I recommend the military to my kids? Probably not. Certainly not as enlisted, as I was. I was a tough kid, well suited for the Paras and badly in need of discipline and structure in my life. I hope my kids are better than that.

Originally Posted by S Landreth

Academics
My daughter received her degree in nursing from Florida State. She had to work in the field for two years before they would consider letting her come back to pursue her masters (a requirement).

The field of medicine is a "tough" field. Medicine, biology, pharmacology, are difficult subjects. We, the human race, have a great mass of knowledge in these fields and medical professionals must learn it all, and be tested on the knowledge. Not an easy task.

This is a field I would aver that you need to be born with the talent to pursue. Nursing, doctoring, takes a most special kind of person.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Would I recommend the military to my kids? Probably not. Certainly not as enlisted, as I was. I was a tough kid, well suited for the Paras and badly in need of discipline and structure in my life. I hope my kids are better than that.

The military provided me with the tools I needed - education, but more importantly discipline, coupled with insight into my own personal capabilities and limitations.

I would advise a military stint to all. Life experience education not available in books.

Originally Posted by Neverna

^ They are trades, WTF - electricians, mechanics, maintenance fitters, etc - learned on the job along with some theory at college.

Originally Posted by bowie

Yep, they are trades.

My point on that is, you need to be born with the talent.

You cannot learn how to use your hands out of a textbook. Although effective troubleshooting skills can be enhanced academically. You still need the talent.

If your are fortunate to be born with a tradesman's talent, you will do well. Of course, you will have to get your hands dirty. Just remember to wash up before you go to the dinner table or ...

Trades are mostly learned on the job along with some theory at college (in the UK, anyway). You don't need a special talent. You learn the trade, the craft, the skills and the knowledge on the job and at college. There is really no need to be "born with a talent", and I doubt many tradesmen (or women) are.

Originally Posted by bowie

The field of medicine is a "tough" field. Medicine, biology, pharmacology, are difficult subjects. We, the human race, have a great mass of knowledge in these fields and medical professionals must learn it all, and be tested on the knowledge. Not an easy task.

This is a field I would aver that you need to be born with the talent to pursue. Nursing, doctoring, takes a most special kind of person.

Doctors need to be good academically to become doctors and they need to be prepared to put in a lot of time, effort and work (in the UK anyway).

Originally Posted by bowie

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

Would I recommend the military to my kids? Probably not. Certainly not as enlisted, as I was. I was a tough kid, well suited for the Paras and badly in need of discipline and structure in my life. I hope my kids are better than that.

The military provided me with the tools I needed - education, but more importantly discipline, coupled with insight into my own personal capabilities and limitations.

I would advise a military stint to all. Life experience education not available in books.

For me, it changed my life - in the most positive of ways. If one of my kids wants that, it's their choice. As an example, my nephew graduated from MIT. Out of the blue, he went in the Army and is now a Captain in the Rangers. People decide which road to follow at different times in their lives - for my kids, all I can do is to try to provide the best guidance I can as they work their way through life.

Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton

all I can do is to try to provide the best guidance I can as they work their way through life.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Davis Knowlton again.

Originally Posted by Neverna

There is really no need to be "born with a talent", and I doubt many tradesmen (or women) are.

I have to disagree with that statement.

If you aren't "handy" i.e. able to work with your hands which is something you are born with, same as your born with a voice to sing or a silver tongue to sell, you will be a miserable failure should you aspire to be a tradesman.

You'll also be a frequent customer at the local emergency room.

Originally Posted by bowie

You'll also be a frequent customer at the local emergency room.

ask loytoy

not everyone can become a good troubleshooter in plant maintenance - no matter how much training you give them

some people just don't think in the correct way to fault find

Originally Posted by baldrick

no matter how much training you give them

Bingo on that statement. We had a radioman who did so much damage working on equipment he was banned to our "Site Gardener" position. Military at a remote satellite site - couldn't fire him, couldn't let him work on equipment, we did need someone to cut the grass.