Thread: Reverse Culture shock......Naaaaaaah

I was reluctant to post this being I am certain it will be cut and pasted and taken out of context but thought WTF, it is just another POV.

With that said a couple of disclaimers.

* This is intended for the people who have lived or still do live in the US. I completely understand that the UK folks have a completely different view of Thailand based on what appears, and has been stated, to be a dismal quality of life driving you out of your home country. I also realize everybody left their home country for their own reasons and I am not judging anyone. If you LOVE Thailand then more power to you.

** I am comparing West Coast California living to Thailand. There are probably a few places in the US that might make Thailand look like a GREAT place to move.

*** If you are a deep political advocate, medically ailing and want to gripe about medicare or a religion freak no need to comment as I do not follow them therefore my troubles are few.

**** I will not touch on the woman aspect as I am not fully convinced that Thai women are any better then any other woman anywhere in the world. There seems to be this illusion they are.


My 2 week return assessment and comments.

General: Being back has been incredibly relaxing. BBQ'ing, Great beer, fun friends, access to endless activities and stunning weather. My gal friend's assessment has been quite interesting as she does like we all do when we travel, and has been comparing costs. I am actually quite surprised. I am convinced now some how we get sold a bill of goods that Thailand is way cheaper for everything. I am finding this actually to be totally inaccurate. Fruit and most vegetables are way cheaper here with a much wider variety. Imported stuff is expensive like Mangos and Coconuts but that's really it. Pork and chicken are about the same cost. Salmon(and other popular fish) are significantly lower in cost but there is no sea perch or catfish to compare but she said the others can replace it. Clothes are generally about same cost wise(excluding the cheap junk you buy in TL that you wash once and its out of shape and falling apart) however the quality here is far superior in fit and material. Same applies to bedding and linens. Electronics are comparable as well except you have the awesome ability to return it with no resistance should you not like it or it does not perform as stated. Gas(Petrol) for cars is virtually the same per gallon when converted from Liter to Gal. Monthly Internet fee the same but speed way faster here. Cars are significantly less expensive. I bought a 4 year old used Toyota truck that would cost nearly double in Thailand. I am out looking at houses already and I can tell you they are comparable to the cost to Thailand. US TV is pretty poor if thats your bag but WAY better then Thai programming. I am not much a TV watcher. I am a Torrentz guy and watch commercial free and when I feel like it. it is not a big part of my life.


Upside: Being back I can get what I want and need with no resistance or headaches. That to me is HUGE. Before I decided to return to the US I had grown frustrated having to improvise with sub par items that would fall apart quickly and I would have to replace frequently. Forget about finding reliable help. Sure it was cheap labor but how many times did they have to come back to complete the job or did you just give up and fix yourself? Quality items are available in Thailand but cost a fortune to acquire and I had to go get it which may or may not be a chore. I forgot how much I missed hot and cold running water and water you can drink right out of the faucet. I have not had to buy a plastic bottle of water since I returned. I took my GF to a bar restaurant and it was filled with a mix of people which was refreshing. Nobody looks at her as a BG and it is not lopsided with old foreigner men with young Thai women. Its so diverse here.


Downside: Thus far is Cal sales tax(~8%), all service companies want contracts to lock you in long term(phone, internet, cable and housing leases), no quick scooter rides to the talad for food, public transpo is virtually non existent. I suspect after I go back to work I will feel that life pressure but would think that will completely depend on the job and how I manage it. It is also far to easy to eat crappy food and individual portion sizes could feed a family of 4. Explains the obesity.


Weather: No surprise here, what can I say. Simply no comparison(again I am talking California). GF loves it as I knew she would. You can be out and about all day, drive around with the windows down and enjoy fresh air, no steaming garbage smell or burning field smoke and you do not get that slimy grim on you where you need to shower 3 times a day. Where I am located I can get to any type of environment in 2 hours or less, clean rivers, beach, city, snow, country/forest. it has been 2 weeks and not 1 mosquito bite...


Living arrangements: Clearly you can rent a condo or apt in TL cheaper then here by almost 2/3rds but consider what you get and how you live. Its basically a box. Not bad mind you. While I enjoyed it a lot in the early going but long term I knew it would not work. I require at minimum a 1 full bedroom, full kitchen and some leg room. When you find one of those deals in TL it gets much closer in cost to living here. So I think it just depends on what you require and how you want to live. As most know I would never buy a property in Thailand for a host of reasons that have been debated on here for years and if I met a lady I would only upgrade(at a very basic level) the home to make it user friendly. Sounds selfish I know but I can see where you could just dwindle your $$$ away trying to make the perfect western home. I have met quite a few that thought it was cheap and easy then ended up having more in the build then they could have here and do not "Own it", have no write offs against it and have no access to its equity. One thing paramount is having the means to exit if it gets to be too much. Most do not get this and leave themselves no options. I also originally thought the lawlessness of Thailand would be refreshing but now have found it works against you more then it makes it better. Cretins and drunk Thais can be idiots and act like morons(along with foreigners) with virtually no consequences. You have no path to air your grievances. Knowing the sister of a friend who knows a crooked Thai cop is not a method to air your grievances as it is not available to the general population.


All of that aside in the end what I got out of living in TL was a tremendous personal life experience and the understanding of how I will avoid falling into US consumerism and the trifling BS. I can use this to my advantage to maximize my gains for later on in life. I can enjoy the awesome freedoms in a system that just seems to make sense, excellent living conditions and weather, great foods, ease of acquiring what I need, etc etc.

On a closing note living out of ones country is truly rewarding and something I feel totally blessed to have been able to do, especially being it was on my terms. It clearly wakes you up to things you take for granted. Some of the simplest things I was able to do in the US became the most complicated to complete in Thailand. The checking in felt more like a prisoner then a resident. I wanted a simpler life and found it came with a price. Thought it would be the other way around . I am not sure how this will go for my GF. At this point she is completely overwhelmed but in a good way. In fact a few days ago she asked me very simple question, "Why did you ever leave this to move to Thailand, it is so clean, the people are so nice and the weather is so great" I had no answer other then I said "I wanted to know how other people live elsewhere". I am very interested in returning to Thailand but on a part time basis. I really think it is the best way to enjoy it due to the crap you just cannot insulate yourself from when you live their full time. I like Thailand, but not that much. I seriously doubt I will have any lingering reverse culture shocks. In fact I feel like I was on a long vacation and just got back.....Actually maybe that's all it was...

Life is one long vacation
It ends when you die
good luck

If you get to missing Thailand too much, boogie on down to Thai Town in LA. The bowl of noodles will be a little more expensive though.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

If you get to missing Thailand too much, boogie on down to Thai Town in LA. The bowl of noodles will be a little more expensive though.

No need my friend, My Gal friend here makes it perfect for about a $1.50.

Thanks for the post. I would have never known that living in the US (and in Southern Calif) would be better than living in a developing country.

Perhaps that explains why millions of people from developing countries would like to immigrate to the US.

Just amazing what you find out on the internet.


TH

Thanks for a good, detailed write-up, JP. Glad your re-entry is going smoothly.

it is nice to read a post where the poster is making the best of what there is

much better than whingeing on and on about minor negatives

I hope you have health and dental insurance. The cost of those things in the US out-of-pocket is ridiculous.

I just had a root canal and crown down here for 13,500 tb. I bet it would have cost $4000 in the US.

I went back and forth a lot before finally settling here for good. I always ended up missing Thailand.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

In fact I feel like I was on a long vacation and just got back.....Actually maybe that's all it was...

Life is good. Vacations are done when required. Good luck and hope the bliss remains strong for you both.

Nice write. Cheers.

Originally Posted by Humbert

I just had a root canal and crown down here for 13,500 tb. I bet it would have cost $4000 in the US.

Hence the booming Thai medical tourism industry.

Being from England, and having spent some time in Califiornia, I would never even consider leaving if I were from there, especially to come to Thailand. Awesome post by the way.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

I am convinced now some how we get sold a bill of goods that Thailand is way cheaper for everything. I am finding this actually to be totally inaccurate. Fruit and most vegetables are way cheaper here with a much wider variety. Imported stuff is expensive like Mangos and Coconuts but that's really it. Pork and chicken are about the same cost. Salmon(and other popular fish) are significantly lower in cost but there is no sea perch or catfish to compare but she said the others can replace it. Clothes are generally about same cost wise(excluding the cheap junk you buy in TL that you wash once and its out of shape and falling apart) however the quality here is far superior in fit and material. Same applies to bedding and linens. Electronics are comparable as well except you have the awesome ability to return it with no resistance should you not like it or it does not perform as stated. Gas(Petrol) for cars is virtually the same per gallon when converted from Liter to Gal. Monthly Internet fee the same but speed way faster here. Cars are significantly less expensive. I bought a 4 year old used Toyota truck that would cost nearly double in Thailand. I am out looking at houses already and I can tell you they are comparable to the cost to Thailand.

Thailand has become quite expensive for a certain level of lifestyle, even Europe is getting cheaper than Bangkok. Asian cities have a tendency to become expensive with time, no exception it seems. Eventually Bangkok prices will be at par with SING or even HK.

Originally Posted by JPPR2

Weather: No surprise here, what can I say. Simply no comparison(again I am talking California). GF loves it as I knew she would. You can be out and about all day, drive around with the windows down and enjoy fresh air, no steaming garbage smell or burning field smoke and you do not get that slimy grim on you where you need to shower 3 times a day. Where I am located I can get to any type of environment in 2 hours or less, clean rivers, beach, city, snow, country/forest. it has been 2 weeks and not 1 mosquito bite...

lucky bastard, it's fucking 40C here

Originally Posted by JPPR2

It clearly wakes you up to things you take for granted

indeed, glad your return is happening smoothly, again, lucky bastard

An excellent, well written and persuasive article. Many thanks for posting it and the best of luck in your new venture.

Very nicely put and thanks for the effort of writing it.

Originally Posted by Thaihome

Thanks for the post. I would have never known that living in the US (and in Southern Calif) would be better than living in a developing country.

Perhaps that explains why millions of people from developing countries would like to immigrate to the US.

Just amazing what you find out on the internet.


TH

Everyone else appreciated the post. You wouldn't be the same snide TH from wank visa would you?

Originally Posted by Humbert

I just had a root canal and crown down here for 13,500 tb. I bet it would have cost $4000 in the US.

I completely understand and appreciate why some move abroad to afford medical services. I know as folks age Medical costs become all consuming. There are great cost savings to be had compared to here. The beauty is if I need anything I know exactly where to go to get what I need done and get to visit Thailand to boot. Again I am a very young 50 and am in great health. I probably have 10+ years or more before I need to worry about ailments. I got a full physical before I left at the hospital my GF worked at and YES, it was significantly cheaper. Good news All was good. Doc said "Boring" results. This is why living part time in Thailand will have some benefits.

Originally Posted by Chairman Mao

Hence the booming Thai medical tourism industry.

^ Absolutely. Its nice to know its available.

Thanks for all the kind words all. Again I want to be objective. As you know that is and can be hard on an internet forum. I do not think any one place has it all but it is what you make it. I really like SE Asia and Thailand specifically. I will definitely be back. The idea of having a house here and house there seems ideal. The gal I am seeing owns a very nice Teak home in Lampang on 2 rai. So this may work out perfectly long term. She really likes the small homes on 3 to 5 acres right at the pine line here as do I.

I will post some pictures of over the next few days of things I think are noteworthy. I have taken a bunch just have not uploaded yet.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

lucky bastard, it's fucking 40C here

Today is 22 with a high of 28, clear blue skies and 28% humidity...Lucky bastard indeed....

Originally Posted by JPPR2

Originally Posted by Butterfly

lucky bastard, it's fucking 40C here

Today is 22 with a high of 28, clear blue skies and 28% humidity...Lucky bastard indeed....

Yeah yeah yeah, blue fucking skies and it's freaking awesome.

My weather for the last few months has been about 6-14 with constant rain and grey as a motherfu$ker.

You should bring a Thai bird to the UK, they would fucking love it because they would never see the sun.

Whats all this about the people being so nice in Southern California? I thought they were all evil.

I have a crush on Penny from the Big bang theory TV show in Pasadena. Please go see her and arrange a date for me? Thanks ever so much.

Great to hear it's going well JPR- and SoCal is certainly a good place to live in the US, certainly compared to the frozen north. You are now in your 'Honeymoon period'- everything is new (well, sorta), fresh, vibrant etc, all the contrasts to your previous life in Los are pleasant. It was much the same when you first moved to Thailand too, was it not?- that is the way with virtually all of us that move O/S.

After the Honeymoon, a more balanced perspective sets in- I'm talking as someone who has hired several dozen expats from the UK, Oz and other places, in this case to live and work in HK. Frustrations, such as they exist, come to the fore, and contrasts with ones previous life are not all of the rose tinted variety. It was during this 'post Honeymoon comedown' that I formed an opinion (generally kept to myself) whether the newbie would be a stayer or not, and was usually right.

I would certainly like to hear how it's going for you in, say, 4 - 6 months. Those things you might miss, those things you absolutely don't etc- and I certainly value your perspective as an honest and objective guy. Of course, this 'Honeymoon- post Honeymoon' thing is not as marked for one returning to their native domicile, but it still applies- well, it did for me when I returned for a three year sojourn in Sth Australia, after 12 years in HK. Thanks for the post & update, very interesting. And considering we've been sweltering over here for a couple of weeks, a bit jealous about the weather.

Originally Posted by Thaihome

Thanks for the post. I would have never known that living in the US (and in Southern Calif) would be better than living in a developing country.

Perhaps that explains why millions of people from developing countries would like to immigrate to the US.

Just amazing what you find out on the internet.


TH

Some people just don't seem to have a sense of humor. As many reds as Mid has given me, its amazing he has any ammo.


I'm out of ammo, but heres one for you Mid



And another


TH

I could never return to the west. It seems a putrefying existence. Self indulgence and patronizing society that smugly holds itself as the ultimate place to be. Fortunately more and more Americans are opting for "ex-pat," status and many more for renouncing citizenship altogether. I might try Mexico or Costa Rica next if things go south here in LOS, but never, ever USA and certainly not Cal. It was plastic in the 60's and it has gotten a lot worse since then.

I would only move back to states if I couldn’t find an expat package deal overseas. I see little reason to work in developing countries for less money than I can make in the US and have always had problems understanding the reasons people do it. I was very surprised when after working oversea for a couple of years, I ran into someone that was working without a full package in Malaysia in 2000. Up till then I had no idea people did that.

I will undoubtedly retire in Thailand, but that has more to do with my wife and the friends I have here and the fact I will be able to still maintain the full expat package lifestyle (due to 20 years of working it).

It certainly sounds like the OP is much better off with his living in So Cal and just visiting Thailand. Good luck to him and dispite my earlier sarcasm, appreciate the report.
TH

Originally Posted by JPPR2

No need my friend, My Gal friend here makes it perfect for about a $1.50.

Will you be so happy in 6 months time when she has to return ? just saying