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  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog
    I'm still waiting to hear what happens to poor people in Thailand who cause injury on the roads due to recklessness (or throwing water). Nobody seems to have an answer, leading one to infer that they face very little or no penalty.
    The only inference to draw from that is that due to the obscurity of the people involved such cases rarely make the national news or the English language papers. The Thai newspapers regularly report these cases, compensation is almost always involved.

    The procedure in most cases like this in Thailand is to always go for negotiation first, normally in a police station with lawyers present. Thai justice generally insists on at least one negotiation/compromise meeting before allowing a case to proceed to court. Compensation is decided at these meetings. The courts will determine sentencing (and compensation if no previous agreement has been reached). Compensation and sentencing are normally two separate processes although the defendant's agreeing to compensation and showing remorse will be taken into account during sentencing.
    The Above Post May Contain Strong Language, Flashing Lights, or Violent Scenes.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Is it really so difficult to understand that a legal system developed in the west may not have the same resonance in Asian countries?
    There's not much at fault with the legal system in Thailand. Many of Asia's countries have inherited (or built) perfectly workable legal codes. For example, Indonesia's legal system is quite a sound Dutch-based code.

    The problem is the interpretation of it.

    Its the judiciary and police that don't enforce it properly.

    Lets blame them, not the canon of Law itself.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mid View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by taxexile
    fines and penalties based on income and assets.
    As TS said , you are just cheapening life with this approach
    You are ensuring that the family don't suffer financially from the loss of a breadwinner. What cheapens life is ignoring those who depended on the victim for support. You are cheapening their lives, condemning them to further poverty and helplessness.

    And yes, under many legal systems human life does have a price. That price is the expected earnings of the victim over the rest of their life if the had not been killed. It is meant to ensure the future security of their family. In this case at least the payments involved seem to be fair. Ensuring the future security of the victims family seems to me to be more just than only throwing the perp in jail and then abandoning the victims.
    The problem is not the financial compensation for loss of a potential breadwinner, I think we can all agree that there is nothing wrong with that, likewise smaller difference's in justice culture where the compensation plays a bigger part can be preferable in countries without other economic social safeguards and systems in place, but only as an intermediate solution until they catch up.

    Justice as applied by the State has other objectives than just taking care of victims, a very important one is to try to avoid getting more victims by making people accept, respect and uphold the law, and in such a way that every citizen feels they have equal value to the State when it comes to Justice, thus avoiding people disregarding the law and taking matters into their own hands.

    The problem with the Thai compensation way is that it is not all done in accordance with law, but privately negotiated outside a courtroom, it is not a Judge that awards the size of the compensation from viewing the nature of the "crime", economic ability of the responsible, and the calculated loss of the bereaved.

    In cases like this the well of family stand much stronger intellectually and economically in the negotiations, and as often is seen can coerce their way out with ridiculous low compensation payments. In a Western system on the other hand, there would by law be insurance and government safeguards, to ensure a proper compensation would be paid no matter the economic circumstance of the culprit, poor or rich, which beats the Thai system by many lengths.

    And even if it did go to Thai courts, the corrupt nature of the Thai justice system heavily biased towards the High So, would not be fair and equal.

    Whether people like it or not western principles of justice is spreading not declining in the 3 world, every country that signs on to the wide array of international agreements on for-instance human rights, trade, industrial standards, intellectual property etc. etc. are compelled to increasingly adopt western type ways of applying justice since all those agreements is based in western type law.

    So when it is claimed that Western Justice is vastly superior to most other systems, and would ultimately benefit the weak in society greatly, it's just a fact!, and all the cultural type excuses for not adopting those principles is really just benefiting dictators, the rich, religious and corrupt.


  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    The problem with the Thai compensation way is that it is not all done in accordance with law, but privately negotiated outside a courtroom, it is not a Judge that awards the size of the compensation from viewing the nature of the "crime", economic ability of the responsible, and the calculated loss of the bereaved.
    It is done in accordance with law. Thai law. It is not privately negotiated, there are established, legal methods of doing it. No, judges are not involved, other state-appointed officials are involved. That does not make it unlawful. It is perfectly lawful. Why do people keep insisting that the legal systems they are most familiar with are the only lawful ones?


    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    And even if it did go to Thai courts, the corrupt nature of the Thai justice system heavily biased towards the High So, would not be fair and equal.
    This is of course correct. It doesn't alter the fact that if people want to discuss the rights and wrongs of the Thai legal system as it's supposed to be they should at least make an effort to find out how the Thai legal system deals with these situations and not base their conclusions on the legal systems of other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    Western Justice
    Which one? There are quite a few types of "Western Justice" and they're not all based on the same principles. They have also evolved from our own historical and cultural development. Would you also deny others their own historical and cultural development because they don't meet your standards? How is that different from governing subject peoples for "their own good", or imposing your own ideals on "inferior" peoples? If you genuinely do believe in law and justice how can you deny others the right to make their own choices?

    As has been pointed out several times the issue here is not the Thai legal system, the Thai legal system is fine. The issue with Thai law is corruption. Wipe out the Thai legal system and replace it with any other countries and there would still be corruption. That's because it's people that are corrupt, not (in general) the law codes.
    Last edited by DrB0b; 01-04-2011 at 01:39 PM.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by thegent View Post
    [
    Expiation of one's guilt limited by payment of financial compensation is not on the menu for any civilised western society in which judicial process and punishment is of more concern.
    You've clearly not lived in the USA....

    or worked for Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, CSFB, ......

    ...for whom financial settlement for frauds, without admission of guilt, is a regular occurence.
    Honestly, Moog, sometimes you do talk such tosh. Quite why seems mystifying but one assumes the air gets that much more rarified when you mount that high horse of yours.

    Distorting my point by implying that glib analogy of yours, echoed by Tax, is really quite silly and does you no credit.

    The criminal calendar in western societies imposes a penal code on all members of society equally. Whether or not one is fortunate enough to procure representation that acquits because of an expertise rather than the weight of evidence is not a fault per se but in truth such cases are relatively rare. But that is not your main point.

    Corporate crime is complex and involves officers of a company which enjoys a legal entity in its own right. Prosecutions are often lengthy and because of the challenging nature of the evidence juries are notoriously unable to grasp salient points and acquit accordingly. Since many offences are regulatory and the prosecution is through a statutory body it is often better to negotiate an outcome which invariably results in a significant fine. This would in any event be the result in most instances if the case had proceeded to trial and was successfully prosecuted. Thus, the offending company is punished. It is not compensation. However, as we all know once the outcome is known civil litigation proceeds and invariably settlement is reached - that is compensation. You see the difference now?

    In my experience those individuals who have been found to have committed criminal offences in the course of regulatory breaches or those perpetrating fraud on their own account are prosecuted and many result in convictions. Sentences are usually in the 2 -5 year imprisonment category coupled to fines and criminal bankruptcy. Compensation can be pursued by creditors but of course getting blood out of a stone........

    Some might argue such punishments are not enough but extra judicial sanctions may be an option if one was truly that exercised about the crime.

  6. #406
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    Sorry, what is a "dish"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mid View Post
    Laotian girl cut in half by speeding Porsche

    Pathum Thani - A 17-year-old Laotian girl was cut in half by a speeding Porsche car when crossed the road here Friday afternoon.

    Police quoted a witness as saying that the girl, who was a worker of a foods shop, was crossing the road back from a noodle shop where she bough her lunch when she was hit.

    The accident happened at 2:30 pm on the Pathum Thani-Bang Bua Thong Road in front of Parichart Housing Estate in Muang district.

    Initially, only the lower half of her body was found in the dish in the middle of the road.

    Later on, her upper half was found on the seat near the driver seat in the car, which was left about 10 kilometres from the scene. It crashed through the windshield and landed on the seat.

    Police said the car has been stolen and the driver was fleeing.

    nationmultimedia.com

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegent View Post
    You see the difference now?

    .
    No, can you explain it again please. Thx

    I do know that I used to work for Lehman and CSFB, and we used to defraud people all the time, and just shrug and buy our way out of it.

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by puppy
    Sorry, what is a "dish"?
    A ditch.

  9. #409
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    Sorry, perhaps better to leave it as a moog point.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrB0b View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    The problem with the Thai compensation way is that it is not all done in accordance with law, but privately negotiated outside a courtroom, it is not a Judge that awards the size of the compensation from viewing the nature of the "crime", economic ability of the responsible, and the calculated loss of the bereaved.
    It is done in accordance with law. Thai law. It is not privately negotiated, there are established, legal methods of doing it. No, judges are not involved, other state-appointed officials are involved. That does not make it unlawful. It is perfectly lawful. Why do people keep insisting that the legal systems they are most familiar with are the only lawful ones?


    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    And even if it did go to Thai courts, the corrupt nature of the Thai justice system heavily biased towards the High So, would not be fair and equal.
    This is of course correct. It doesn't alter the fact that if people want to discuss the rights and wrongs of the Thai legal system as it's supposed to be they should at least make an effort to find out how the Thai legal system deals with these situations and not base their conclusions on the legal systems of other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    Western Justice
    Which one? There are quite a few types of "Western Justice" and they're not all based on the same principles. They have also evolved from our own historical and cultural development. Would you also deny others their own historical and cultural development because they don't meet your standards? How is that different from governing subject peoples for "their own good", or imposing your own ideals on "inferior" peoples? If you genuinely do believe in law and justice how can you deny others the right to make their own choices?
    "is that it is not all done in accordance with law",

    I'm well aware of the Thai compensation system, call it law if you like! but it is a parody on anything resembling law and even less secure for the weaker part than the Thai courts IMO, I know of an instance where it was used to avoid a murder investigation since the Police accepted a compensation agreement reached where the beneficiary's (a very poor uneducated old Thai woman) then declined to demand a Police and forensic investigation, later when problems regarding the assets coming the beneficiary's way emerged, they then demanded a new Police effort but by then the bird had taken off and it was all to late. result: one despicable murder = 100.000 baht = clean getaway

    The best Justice systems are Northern European, those systems are the ones where economic position is most unlikely to make a difference, likewise other outside influences.

    And yes I would deny some their cultural developed justice like the obvious one Sharia law or Thai LM law, no matter what it has elements that are so far removed from our concepts of justice, equality, fairness and humane behavior, that it is completely unacceptable in an enlightened world, in my view there is absolutely nothing wrong with defending and promoting the better systems, and also in insisting on that advantage as being the only way to go.

    We should not always bow our heads to the "culture" ghost, in some instances we are far more advanced, have gone past that, and things is more based on intellectual pragmatic study, freedom rights and humane considerations of equality for all etc., than old obsolete culture traits, and we should and can say so proudly, whats more we should insist on it as conditions to be applied if we are to interact with certain countries like for-instance Saudi Arabia. Very sad and unfortunate, strategic and economic foreign policy takes precedence with our Politicians over global human rights and freedom.

    Corruption and Law are intertwined in Thailand's ways, one facilitates the other and the other way round as-well, law is not just the criminal code, but also Governmental administrative guidelines, business laws, tax laws etc. not to mention the Law over them all the Constitution that at present is extremely dubious as far as power delegation and political freedom go at-least, so there is no free ride for Thai law, it is not corruption alone that hurts Thailand but a combination IMHO.
    Last edited by larvidchr; 01-04-2011 at 02:44 PM.

  11. #411
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    if going fast is THE issue why are cars such as porches & ferr-aris & massseratties (sp, sp, sp) allowed to be licensed?

    + not letting 'kool guys' to go 200km is bad for the economy
    Montana Rep jumps shark, calls drunk driving laws ‘job killers’

    Republican Congressman Alan Hale used the GOP anti-government “job killer” line to defend drunk driving. He argued that drunk driving laws were killing “small businesses” in his state– small businesses like taverns that make money and “create jobs” by sometimes sending people off into the night bubbly in the head and weaving down Montana roadways. In his ridiculous insincerity, Hale made a satire of GOP politics that would have made Jon Stewart proud.

    VIDEO: Montana Rep jumps shark, calls drunk driving laws

    when i paste the link here all the -%E2%80 ... is added??
    url in my address bar is:
    VIDEO: Montana Rep jumps shark, calls drunk driving laws
    there's a video at the link
    as long as there are tests, there will be prayers in public schools.

    US political pondering: what % of CO2 deniers are also birthers who believe kangaroos walked to the ark

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    in the us the money would go to lawyers
    end result same same .. guy in the porsche walks

    i'd rather the girls family get the Thb

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by larvidchr
    The best Justice systems are Northern European, those systems are the ones where economic position is most unlikely to make a difference, likewise other outside influences.
    the Interpol warrant for a guy that doinked a feminist slut multiple times but failed to get doinking permission later in the same day

    so he can be extradited to the land of the free home of the brave for telling the truth

    sounds like an excellent system to moi

  14. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Is it really so difficult to understand that a legal system developed in the west may not have the same resonance in Asian countries?
    There's not much at fault with the legal system in Thailand. Many of Asia's countries have inherited (or built) perfectly workable legal codes. For example, Indonesia's legal system is quite a sound Dutch-based code.

    The problem is the interpretation of it.

    Its the judiciary and police that don't enforce it properly.

    Lets blame them, not the canon of Law itself.
    The Thai legal system and statute of law is copied wholesale from other countries. The road rules here are an approximation of the UK Highway Code for example. (Which is why most Brits here would know more about the law than any Thai copper that stopped them).

    Anything not earned is never appreciated or maintained.

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    I have just watched the video...very sad for the girl indeed, hopefully she didn't even see it let alone feel it..though I imagine that she did...Sadly.

    I really hope that this [at][at][at][at] gets what he deserves, however unlikely that is in Thailand...The mother only gets to ask for 200k compo' are you fucking kidding here or what...I'd want way more than that and the guy go to gaol for 25 - life..

    There is also the very unlikely thing that one of the posters said earlier that she looked the wrong way...but she would have to have just stepped over the border in Roi et to realise that Thai's drive on both sides of the fucking road the imbecilles that they are...i bet he just flashed his lights that wouls surely make it alright!!!

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  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr R Sole View Post
    I have just watched the video...very sad for the girl indeed, hopefully she didn't even see it let alone feel it..though I imagine that she did...Sadly.

    I really hope that this [at][at][at][at] gets what he deserves, however unlikely that is in Thailand...The mother only gets to ask for 200k compo' are you fucking kidding here or what...I'd want way more than that and the guy go to gaol for 25 - life..

    There is also the very unlikely thing that one of the posters said earlier that she looked the wrong way...but she would have to have just stepped over the border in Roi et to realise that Thai's drive on both sides of the fucking road the imbecilles that they are...i bet he just flashed his lights that wouls surely make it alright!!!

    I hope she did not feel anything too. Probably she did not since car hit her so fast her body was cut in half. Must have been an imminent death.

  17. #417
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    ^^Try to keep up, Sole. This case is over. The mother accepted 300,000 from the family, and an additional 200,000 from the insurance company. Half million - family paid far, far more than that for the car. The little sunglasses wearing, hoodie wearing, baseball cap wearing Korean boy band wannabe piece of utter shit made a huge phony wai in front of the grieving mother of his victim, and then pissed off back to the mall with his asshole buddies. And, as the victim had just arrived from Laos, she may well have looked the wrong way since Lao drive on the other side. She certainly hadn't been in the big city long enough to be able to judge car speeds. Probably never seen anything faster than a farm truck in her short life.

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Master Cool
    If she had been looking both ways like everybody should on a pedestrian crossing then the accident is not likely to have happened. Unfortunately her carelessness is just as much to blame for this horrific accident.
    I'm sure that she was just crossing the road 'legally' as it were. Then a little twat in Daddy's Porsche driving at 120+ over a crossing where a bus has stopped. 'Presumably' to let someone cross or even pick someone up or drop them off is irrelevant...You seem to possibly be friend with the family of the driver...Man give the poor cow a break here and as someone else pointed out from the horrific vid' the damage is really far over on the left of the Porsche...

    Not looking that good for you 'tough shit she wasn't looking' theory...must've got out on the wrong side today 'Master notsocool'


  19. #419
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    This is the location right? At least what is presented as the location in this thread.



    Doesn't look like anyone should attempt crossing this (section of) road.

    Wonder how many posters here have driven along, what is virtually a 6 lane highway with verge in the middle at 120kph.

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton View Post
    ^^Try to keep up, Sole. This case is over. The mother accepted 300,000 from the family, and an additional 200,000 from the insurance company. Half million - family paid far, far more than that for the car. The little sunglasses wearing, hoodie wearing, baseball cap wearing Korean boy band wannabe piece of utter shit made a huge phony wai in front of the grieving mother of his victim, and then pissed off back to the mall with his asshole buddies. And, as the victim had just arrived from Laos, she may well have looked the wrong way since Lao drive on the other side. She certainly hadn't been in the big city long enough to be able to judge car speeds. Probably never seen anything faster than a farm truck in her short life.
    I sure hope you are not playing for the killer. Now the 200k, in my Thai car insurance it says much higher amount on accident. Why they pay only 200k?
    If she just arrived from Lao and car hit her, doest that justify killing her and driving off 10 km with her body on his next seat.

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Mao View Post
    This is the location right? At least what is presented as the location in this thread.



    Doesn't look like anyone should attempt crossing this section of road.

    Wonder how many posters here have driven along, what is virtually a 6 lane highway with verge in the middle at 120kph.
    That google maps image does not tell us anything.

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    Perhaps not someone who thinks the mother was threatened with deportation, even though she neither lives, or was staying in Thailand.

    To others it shows a highspeed 4-6 lane highway (or as good as) without pedestrian crossings.

    Have you not driven at 120kph on such a road before? (although as you need to avoid my questions I doubt you'll answer, at least with any honesty).

  23. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chairman Mao View Post
    Perhaps not someone who thinks the mother was threatened with deportation, even though she neither lives, or was staying in Thailand.

    To others it shows a highspeed 4-6 lane highway (or as good as) without pedestrian crossings.

    Have you not driven at 120kph on such a road before? (although as you need to avoid my questions I doubt you'll answer, at least with any honesty).
    Now you are twisting the issue. This was a clear case of hit and run, not to do with skyway speeding.

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    ^^Try to keep up, Sole.
    Sorry DK, I'm not Mr current affairs these days...gotta 'shit' in internet cafe's with horrendous music and even more horrendous kids screaming at the top of their filthy lungs..and they're mainly in their 20's!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    The little sunglasses wearing, hoodie wearing, baseball cap wearing Korean boy band wannabe piece of utter shit made a huge phony wai in front of the grieving mother of his victim, and then pissed off back to the mall with his asshole buddies.
    No surprises there at all...I would've kicked the [at][at][at][at] in the balls on TV as part of the agreement as he Wai'd me...that would'v made it worth while...Or sneakily pulled out a Kantana & sliced the bastard in 2... Voila...keep ya cash Bi-atch...
    Hai ya....

    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    as the victim had just arrived from Laos, she may well have looked the wrong way since Lao drive on the other side.
    What did she do magically fly over from Lao and land in the middle of the road??? Come on Dk the vid shows her wearing an apron which means she was working as a waitress or some shit like that...as gross as the vid' is...it's reasonably clear..the apron that is...as they pull her torso from the rear window... Ohhhhh..

    Quote Originally Posted by Davis Knowlton
    Probably never seen anything faster than a farm truck in her short life.
    They certainly smoke alot more up there!!! So driving slower comes hand in hand..

  25. #425
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    ^Worked in her Aunt's roadside food stall, but hadn't been in Thailand very long. Article says "recently arrived from Laos to help out her Aunt during her school break".

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