Thailand : Laotian girl cut in half by speeding Porsche

**Rural Surin** · 31-03-2011, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog

Alternatives - prevention rather than punishment -

almost ,

prevention and punishment for those that fail to learn the prevention message ,

and

the same punishment be you a garbage collector or a captain of industry .

Easier said than done. As class exceptions are quite the norm throughout every society.

**Tom Sawyer** · 31-03-2011, 08:12 PM

Not true RS. Have you fogotten Bernie Madoff already? He was a bona-fide member of the US club, the Enron guy, then Sir Conrad Black all did or are doing time in a US prison, so too did another British member of the establishment (in a UK prison), a former Canadian Premier or Cabinet Minister - forget which (of a province) was given a long prison sentence for contract killing of his wife.

That would be unthinkable here (except if you're last name is Thaksin).

There are exceptions - Sarah Ferguson hasn't been charged yet (as far as I know) for her admitted conspiracy - but overall you're plain wrong.

**taxexile** · 31-03-2011, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by taxexile

whyever not?

Originally Posted by taxexile

the only way to to really punish offenders these days is to hit them in their pockets, and hit them hard. take away what is most dear to them.

because the punishment in your example penalizes the poor more than the rich .

fines and penalties based on income and assets.

**Tom Sawyer** · 31-03-2011, 08:17 PM

^
People like you cheapen life - just another consumer commodity - if I can afford it I can do whatever the fuck I want, to whomever I want, when I want. Is that about the size of your peabrain theory?

**taxexile** · 31-03-2011, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sabai Prai

Originally Posted by Thaihome

No way this poor girl deserved to die, but her family is certainly better off that she was killed by a rich kid rather then somebody in 10 years old pickup truck that still isn’t paid for.

Would be interesting to see what would happen if a young kid in a 10 year old pick up truck that still isn't paid for hit and killed a rich kid

the poor family would be satisfied with financial compensation from the offender, the rich family would probably want the poorer offender imprisoned...... but you dont see too may rich kids crossing 6 lane highways on foot.

**The Ghost Of The Moog** · 31-03-2011, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by taxexile

the poor family would be satisfied with financial compensation from the offender, the rich family would probably want the poorer offender imprisoned...... but you dont see too may rich kids crossing 6 lane highways on foot.

If folk got automatically remunerated for being hit by cars, the Thai expressways would be full of people trying to get winged.

So as an alternative to that. How about Thailand having a real and serious driving test for starters.

**Butterfly** · 31-03-2011, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog

more enforcement of speed limits,
more bridges to cross roads,
Enforce pedestrian rights at designated crossing places,
Better maintained sidewalks
Teach pedestrians to be vigilant, eg More school programmes teaching kerb drill and road safety.
More breath tests to tackle drunk driving.

sounds like too much work or commitment, not going to happen here

**Tom Sawyer** · 31-03-2011, 09:39 PM

^^
One can only hope that, one day, the two of you are feeling each other up in a Vegas stretch limousine that gets broadsided by a petroleum delivery truck.

**taxexile** · 31-03-2011, 10:37 PM

So as an alternative to that. How about Thailand having a real and serious driving test for starters.

there just isnt the will here. nobody cares. life is very cheap.

a real and serious driving test would be too difficult to pass and too difficult to enforce. when thais encounter anything difficult or requiring effort they just circumvent it by any means possible. never mind the consequences.

get a fake licence, pay the examiner for a pass, patch it up, sweep it under the carpet, pretend it doesnt exist and last but not least pass the buck and blame someone else.

**patsycat** · 01-04-2011, 12:02 AM

He still could have taken the damn baseball hat off.

**DrB0b** · 01-04-2011, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by taxexile

the poor family would be satisfied with financial compensation from the offender, the rich family would probably want the poorer offender imprisoned

That's because the poor family is being compensated for the loss of future earnings caused by the death of their family member. A rich family does not suffer the same financial loss. Some people here might think that being compensated for a death this way is mercenary. It's not. It's necessary in a society in which social security is non-existent or totally inadequate and in which the only financial security for older members of the family is provided by the younger members.

**Tom Sawyer** · 01-04-2011, 09:20 AM

^
That misses the point. Yes, compensation is due for the reasons you stated - pretty obvious really - and that argument is also used, successfully, in developed countries with "developed" legal systems. There should still be even-handedness in handling the criminal side of culpable homocide - there isn't. That's the point.

**Kurgen** · 01-04-2011, 10:15 AM

So I guess that's it, case closed.

Just a few pages of off topic petty squabbles and rants before the thread dies too.

NEXT!

**Norton** · 01-04-2011, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Kurgen

So I guess that's it, case closed.

I guess you guess correctly.

No criminal charges pending.

Family accepts the equivalent of 12 or 13 years annual income in compensation for death.

Case closed.

**The Ghost Of The Moog** · 01-04-2011, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

^
There should still be even-handedness in handling the criminal side of culpable homocide - there isn't. That's the point.

There does appear to be even-handedness, in that (unless someone has contradictory evidence) poor people who kill other Thais through reckless driving don't go to jail either.

The only difference is that rich driver has to pay for the perceived cost of a life, if he takes one, and a poor driver doesn't.

So if there is any bias, its one in favour of the poor guy who drives badly.

**DrB0b** · 01-04-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

That misses the point. Yes, compensation is due for the reasons you stated - pretty obvious really - and that argument is also used, successfully, in developed countries with "developed" legal systems. There should still be even-handedness in handling the criminal side of culpable homocide - there isn't. That's the point.

The point that you're missing is that Western ideas of justice are not universally accepted as being the best. We've already tried imposing western justice systems on large parts of the world, that really didn't work out too well. Is it really so difficult to understand that a legal system developed in the west may not have the same resonance in Asian countries? If you feel that Asians shouldn't be allowed to have their own systems of justice in what way are you any different from the average bigot?

Nor is Justice about even-handedness, justice is about justice, moral rightness, and not only about blindly sticking to the word of the law. The law applies equally to all but that does not mean that circumstances are not taken into account when dealing out justice. Compromise and compensation are a fundamental part of the Thai system and, like it or not, Thais generally prefer it that way. Indeed, many of them are actually proud of this system of compromise and compensation, finding the western system of punishment of the offender and subsequent abandonment of the victim aggressive and distasteful. I've yet to hear many of them describe it as inferior though, that kind of blind arrogance only seems to occur at the highest levels of Thai society, unlike in western societies where blind arrogance, ignorance, and an unjustified feeling of superiority seems to be widespread throughout the population.

Note that I'm not talking about corruption here, I'm talking about perfectly normal legal procedures and a system of justice which many Westerners find distateful and, for some reason, because they find them distateful believe they must also be inferior.

**Mid** · 01-04-2011, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by taxexile

fines and penalties based on income and assets.

As TS said , you are just cheapening life with this approach

**DrB0b** · 01-04-2011, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Mid

Originally Posted by taxexile

fines and penalties based on income and assets.

As TS said , you are just cheapening life with this approach

You are ensuring that the family don't suffer financially from the loss of a breadwinner. What cheapens life is ignoring those who depended on the victim for support. You are cheapening their lives, condemning them to further poverty and helplessness.

And yes, under many legal systems human life does have a price. That price is the expected earnings of the victim over the rest of their life if the had not been killed. It is meant to ensure the future security of their family. In this case at least the payments involved seem to be fair. Ensuring the future security of the victims family seems to me to be more just than only throwing the perp in jail and then abandoning the victims.

**Mid** · 01-04-2011, 11:15 AM

disagree , you missing the point that there are those who have so much that any fine is not a deterrent .

justice must be equal for all and any compensation must be on top of the custodial sentence else wise you are allowing the rich to buy their way out .

**DrB0b** · 01-04-2011, 11:22 AM

^On the custodial sentence why don't we just wait and see? I admit I'm not optimistic on the matter. BTW, I haven't been able to find out anything about this particular Thai family, do you have any idea where their money comes from?

**The Ghost Of The Moog** · 01-04-2011, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mid

disagree , you missing the point that there are those who have so much that any fine is not a deterrent .

The changing hands of currency isn't intended as a deterrent in these types of cases in Thailand . Its intended to help out the bereaved.

Anyway, this isn't a fine (which would go to the State) but goes direct to the victim's family.

I'm still waiting to hear what happens to poor people in Thailand who cause injury on the roads due to recklessness (or throwing water). Nobody seems to have an answer, leading one to infer that they face very little or no penalty.

**wefearourdespot** · 01-04-2011, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mid

Thailand : Laotian girl cut in half by speeding Porsche

I hope the Porsche didn't get too damaged.

**Mid** · 01-04-2011, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by DrB0b

I haven't been able to find out anything about this particular Thai family, do you have any idea where their money comes from?

sorry , I draw a blank on that one .

**Mid** · 01-04-2011, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by The_Ghost_Of_The_Moog

The changing hands of currency isn't intended as a deterrent in these types of cases in Thailand . Its intended to help out the bereaved.

that is understood , however due to the various financial background of the perps it can not be seen as a means of obtaining justice and should be separate and unlinked to .

**Tom Sawyer** · 01-04-2011, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by DrB0b

The point that you're missing is that Western ideas of justice are not universally accepted as being the best. We've already tried imposing western justice systems on large parts of the world, that really didn't work out too well. Is it really so difficult to understand that a legal system developed in the west may not have the same resonance in Asian countries?

Nope - not missing your point at all - and it is well taken (on the compensatory notions and practices).

The "Western" ideas of justice however didn't originate in the "West" they've just been adapted through the years - but the same foundation exists from ancient times. The idea that there should be punishment that meets a crime is much, much older than that - and is practised nearly universally - and across a variety of faiths and non-faiths. It goes back before the greeks and romans.

The Arabs were chopping off hands for theft long before Plato was born. The Chinese don't follow English Common Law systems nor Napoleanic Code - but they still mete out justice to suit the crime. As 'harsh' as the above may be, they are "punishments" for wrong-doing - separate from compensatory measures which may or may not be in place. In order to prevent chaos and anarchy, societies have for millennia found the need to punish those among them who will not play nicely - not for the sake of the victim - but for the sake of protecting the larger collective from similar attacks - a discouragement.

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