Thread: Thailand : PM to Decide on House Dissolution in 4 Months

Originally Posted by Calgary

Thaihome is definitely a Thaksin hater.

Has bought the State demonization campaign hook-line-and-sinker

All Thaksin haters do that -- by continually reprinting and/or quoting the stuff the State has produced for them in their effort to demonize a feared political rival ---they think it may not be seen for what it is.

Anyway, off to Korat to a major event. Some of you will know what that is.

Calgary, if this is intended to include/refer to the post above yours, you should know that the material reproduced there is far from being "stuff the State has produced". The blogger Saksith is anything but a supporter of the present regime/"State" - but he does often express views that question and criticise UDD/redshirts links to Thaksin. Ji Ungkaporn is a well-known opponent (usually identified as Marxist) of the current regime/"State" - as well as a very vocal critic of most (if not all) of the UDD leadership policies, Thaksin connections and much more besides; he's currently self-exiled in the UK - having left Thailand when LM charges were laid against him.

About Montesano - this footnote from the WSJ article:

Mr. Montesano is a visiting research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore and co-editor of the forthcoming book "Bangkok, May 2010: Perspectives on a Divided Thailand" (ISEAS).

He frequently writes articles, contributes comments and appears in TV discussions where it's readily apparent that he's no way a fan of the present Thai regime/"State".

Originally Posted by Calgary

Thaihome is definitely a Thaksin hater.

Has bought the State demonization campaign hook-line-and-sinker

All Thaksin haters do that -- by continually reprinting and/or quoting the stuff the State has produced for them in their effort to demonize a feared political rival ---they think it may not be seen for what it is.

Anyway, off to Korat to a major event. Some of you will know what that is.

And the response is a typical ad hominem attack with no attempt to address any real issue.

Don’t forget on your trip to Korat to do a bit of investigating into the local political situation and who is behind the “event”.

Who are Nakorn Ratchasima constituency MP’s? Did any of the attending people you will “rub shoulders with” vote for them? Why would they do that? What faction do they belong to? What is the history of that faction?
TH

Originally Posted by Calgary

Thaihome is definitely a Thaksin hater.

Has bought the State demonization campaign hook-line-and-sinker

All Thaksin haters do that -- by continually reprinting and/or quoting the stuff the State has produced for them in their effort to demonize a feared political rival ---they think it may not be seen for what it is.

Anyway, off to Korat to a major event. Some of you will know what that is.

He and Butters are the top Thaksin haters around... for reason they only know.

Prem has an estate in Korat Is it LM to say anything about Prem..

At the end of the day, it is a Thai citizens right to democratically vote for whichever party and candidate he wishes, for whichever reason he or she chooses. That is the basis of the democratic system, specifically as defined under the Constitution. Because of their mutual takkie infatuation, neither major party looks particularly appealing to me to be honest, but at the end of the day that is irrelevant to a citizens Right of Suffrage. Perhaps what Thailand needs is a 'Monster raving loony' party. What it certainly doesn't need though is military posturing and interference with the democratic process.

Originally Posted by SteveCM

Originally Posted by Calgary

Thaihome is definitely a Thaksin hater.

Has bought the State demonization campaign hook-line-and-sinker

All Thaksin haters do that -- by continually reprinting and/or quoting the stuff the State has produced for them in their effort to demonize a feared political rival ---they think it may not be seen for what it is.

Anyway, off to Korat to a major event. Some of you will know what that is.

Calgary, if this is intended to include/refer to the post above yours, you should know that the material reproduced there is far from being "stuff the State has produced". The blogger Saksith is anything but a supporter of the present regime/"State" - but he does often express views that question and criticise UDD/redshirts links to Thaksin. Ji Ungkaporn is a well-known opponent (usually identified as Marxist) of the current regime/"State" - as well as a very vocal critic of most (if not all) of the UDD leadership policies, Thaksin connections and much more besides; he's currently self-exiled in the UK - having left Thailand when LM charges were laid against him.

About Montesano - this footnote from the WSJ article:

Mr. Montesano is a visiting research fellow at the Institute of Southeast Asian Studies in Singapore and co-editor of the forthcoming book "Bangkok, May 2010: Perspectives on a Divided Thailand" (ISEAS).

He frequently writes articles, contributes comments and appears in TV discussions where it's readily apparent that he's no way a fan of the present Thai regime/"State".

I havent made made up my mind about Giles Ungkaporn. Seen vid interview. I know he was Chula university man in Thailand and now in the UK. Much of what he is writing is good. Is he a marxist or is he being shown in Thailand as such to commie-fearing media ref 70s?

Originally Posted by sabang

Perhaps what Thailand needs is a 'Monster raving loony' party. What it certainly doesn't need though is military posturing and interference with the democratic process.

Never voted for Monster Raving Loonie Party, they didnt promise to up my pension plan...

In reality as you said military must keep out of politics.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by sabang

What it certainly doesn't need though is military posturing and interference with the democratic process.

Nor the EC or the constitutional courts taking sides.

Over 1300 posts of dueling "news" items and OPeds. Would be a refreshing change to hear from any member who has actually spoken with voters from differing social/economic divisions in the areas they live in. Won't predict outcome of election or the "divides" in Thailand but certainly a better measure of what voters are thinking than a succession of dueling cut and pastes.

I take you dont believe in ABAC polls. nor do i

Originally Posted by nostromo

I havent made made up my mind about Giles Ungkaporn. Seen vid interview. I know he was Chula university man in Thailand and now in the UK. Much of what he is writing is good. Is he a marxist or is he being shown in Thailand as such to commie-fearing media ref 70s?

Giles has no problem with being called a Marxist or a republican. The problem is real Marxist and republicans can’t stand him and his ever changing postions.

Read what Somsak Jeamteerasakul said about him on New Mandela last Oct (comment #10).
Ji Ungpakorn on the military and the monarchy

TH

Originally Posted by nostromo

Originally Posted by Calgary

Thaihome is definitely a Thaksin hater.

Has bought the State demonization campaign hook-line-and-sinker

All Thaksin haters do that -- by continually reprinting and/or quoting the stuff the State has produced for them in their effort to demonize a feared political rival ---they think it may not be seen for what it is.

Anyway, off to Korat to a major event. Some of you will know what that is.

He and Butters are the top Thaksin haters around... for reason they only know.

Prem has an estate in Korat Is it LM to say anything about Prem..

If you actually paid attention you would realize that I don’t “hate” Thaksin, what I do hate are the provincial strongman families, their captive kamnans and canvassers that dominate rural politics without any ideology other then being able to stay in control and get richer on the backs of the people. It is to their advantage that the focus remains on an amart and Bangkok elite rather then themselves.

Western liberals such as Cal just eat this shit up without realizing how they are being duped.
TH

Originally Posted by Thaihome

what I do hate are the provincial strongman families, their captive kamnans and canvassers that dominate rural politics without any ideology other then being able to stay in control and get richer on the backs of the people.

Not a good system but the way it works in Thailand and in many other countries. It is the "strongmen" who influence and bring in the votes regardless of party affiliation. Unseating the strongmen, a near impossible task, or getting them to change party allegiance is the key to election success for any party.

^
The only thing that can break the back of these people is economic development, i.e. grow the middle class. Worth noting that the UDD does not address economics in anyway and the PTP (via thaksin) only wants to increase the handouts.

Real, sustainable economic development would be self defeating for them and they know that and make sure it is never brought up. They much prefer the slogans.
TH

Originally Posted by Thaihome

The only thing that can break the back of these people is economic development

Agree if accompanied by educational development.

and this is exactly why "free cash" doesn't work, it just keep them where they are, it's really a sophisticated repression tool, like throwing meat with sleeping pills in it so the "animals" can stay put in their cage

of course letting the animals starve in their cage is not an alternative either,

the transformation will happen once the "peasant" lifestyle is abandoned. But is that what the locals really want ? do they have a choice to decide ? in these modern economic times, they don't unfortunately, their labor is needed to be monetized in capital output.

So their choice is clear: poor in the fields or poor in the factory

Originally Posted by Butterfly

like throwing meat with sleeping pills in it so the "animals" can stay put in their cage

Originally Posted by Butterfly

of course letting the animals starve in their cage is not an alternative either,

Best to just free them from such an oppressive existence then. It will save being mauled in the future.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by sabang

What it certainly doesn't need though is military posturing and interference with the democratic process.

Nor the EC or the constitutional courts taking sides.

Over 1300 posts of dueling "news" items and OPeds. Would be a refreshing change to hear from any member who has actually spoken with voters from differing social/economic divisions in the areas they live in. Won't predict outcome of election or the "divides" in Thailand but certainly a better measure of what voters are thinking than a succession of dueling cut and pastes.

The first thing to realize is what voters in Thailand actually vote for in general elections. In the upcoming election, they will vote for two things. First is their choice for a Member of Parliament. In most districts this is pretty much a done deal unless they live in area where a rival faction has joined a competing party and is trying to move into a rivals area.
Just like every local politician running for a national office to represent a district, he/she gets elected by promising to bring home the most “bacon”. Virtually no ideological discussion and certainly no discussion of national issues or any “divide”. Voters vote for who is they think will be most successful in helping the district and the candidate run by the local controlling faction is almost always going to be that one.

The other vote is to choose a party and based on the proportion of votes for each party, the “party list” MP’s are chosen. The proportions are not done at the national level, but 5 regional levels which ends up pretty much matching how the constituency vote gets regionalized. This might be the only place that any national level politics gets involved, but again, it does seem to match the constituency votes. If you choose a constituency MP, you will likely choose his party for your proportional vote. The one exception seems to be the urban areas, where the voters will choose a faction’s candidate but will vote for different party. This is the reason that in 2007, the Democrats were able to pretty much tie the PPP in proportional vote while losing the constituency vote. Many in the NE urban areas voted for the PPP candidate, but voted for the Democrats in proportional vote.

I witnessed both the 2001 and 2005 elections in a very rural district. In both cases the TRT candidate was overwhelming voted in. That person also won the 2007 election, but not as part of the PPP. There is no UDD activity in that area.

TH

Originally Posted by Butterfly

and this is exactly why "free cash" doesn't work, it just keep them where they are, it's really a sophisticated repression tool, like throwing meat with sleeping pills in it so the "animals" can stay put in their cage

of course letting the animals starve in their cage is not an alternative either,

the transformation will happen once the "peasant" lifestyle is abandoned. But is that what the locals really want ? do they have a choice to decide ? in these modern economic times, they don't unfortunately, their labor is needed to be monetized in capital output.

So their choice is clear: poor in the fields or poor in the factory

And I say your poor in France and Belgium, greeks and italians extended PIGS have no chance. Losing bastards. Northern europe pays your fuckin electricity bills now and gives you food. Bloody send those countries out from EU. Prob solved.

Originally Posted by Thaihome

5 regional levels

8 regions - unless it has changed very recently

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by Thaihome

what I do hate are the provincial strongman families, their captive kamnans and canvassers that dominate rural politics without any ideology other then being able to stay in control and get richer on the backs of the people.

Not a good system but the way it works in Thailand and in many other countries. It is the "strongmen" who influence and bring in the votes regardless of party affiliation. Unseating the strongmen, a near impossible task, or getting them to change party allegiance is the key to election success for any party.

During Thaksins time, this thing you call "handouts" enabled people in villages to, say, get their own car to bring their product to the market. That is important.

bad headman of village is obviously bad-so lets have an election

Originally Posted by Thaihome

In both cases the TRT candidate was overwhelming voted in. That person also won the 2007 election, but not as part of the PPP. There is no UDD activity in that area.

I do not know which area you refer to- but there is considerable UDD activity in Newin's stronghold, Buriram.


Satit warns UDD not to disrupt PM´s Buri Ram visit

BANGKOK, 10 July 2009 (NNT) – Minister to the Prime Minister's Office Satit Wonghnongtaey urged the United Front of Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) not to oppose the Prime Minister’s visit to Buri Ram province tomorrow.
Satit warns UDD not to disrupt PM

Extra tight security for PM in Buri Ram
Published: 5/07/2009
Bangkok Post : Extra tight security for PM in Buri Ram

UDD from Buriram making their way to Bangkok

BURIRAM, 15 August 2009 (NNT)-United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship members in Buriram have begun to make their way to Bangkok to take part in the groups Royal Pardon petition submission gathering this Monday.
The Buriram UDD members rented 10 buses to transport their numbers to Sanam Luang but were recently denied use by bus operators who reasoned requests to the provincial transport office were denied.
UDD from Buriram making their way to Bangkok : National News Bureau of Thailand

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255404270015

Jatuporn: Pheu Thai wouldn’t survive without UDD

BANGKOK, 27 April 2011 (NNT) – Pheu Thai MP and core leader of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) Jatuporn Prompan has criticized his own party for the idea to separate itself from the UDD, saying the party should be grateful to the group.

Although the next general election is approaching, Mr Jatuporn confirmed that the UDD would carry on with its movements. However, the core leader vowed that the group would hold activities as allowed by the election rules and he, as an MP candidate of Pheu Thai, would rather not participate.

In response to the opinion of some Pheu Thai members that a fine line should be drawn between the party and the UDD to avoid losing votes during the poll, Mr Jatuporn called for Pheu Thai to stop thinking of the red shirts as troublemakers. He claimed that all UDD members knew what was appropriate and what was not, adding that the group had played a major role in winning support for the party. He stressed that Pheu Thai would have been long gone without the UDD and would not be able to last in Thai politics.

As for the pending lèse majesté case lodged against him following his reference to the monarchy during his speech on the UDD stage on 10 April, Mr Jatuporn assured that he would not escape as rumored. He claimed that he was not guilty and thus was not anxious about the lawsuit.

http://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news.php?id=255404270016

Mingkwan, Sanoh in secret talks over new party

BANGKOK, 27 April 2011 (NNT) – Pheu Thai MP Mingkwan Saengsuwan and Pracharaj Party leader Sanoh Thienthong have reportedly met to discuss the possibility of forming a new political party of their own.

As political parties have been in a frenzy over the upcoming general election, a secret meeting has been arranged between Mr Mingkwan and Mr Sanoh over the possible establishment of a new party, which could also involve former Pheu Thai Party Chairperson General Chavalit Yongchaiyudh.

The name of the party could come under an economic concept, such as New Economy Party, and would uphold Mr Mingkwan as its prime minister candidate. Over ten Pheu Thai MPs, who have close relations with Gen Chavalit, are expected to defect to the new party.

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai MP for Nakhon Ratchasima Police Lieutenant Colonel Somchai Phetprasert urged his party to hastily gear up for the election in all aspects, including the administration within the party and the complete separation from the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD). He pointed out that the ties with the red-shirt group would work against the party in the election while its lack of alliances could eventually put it back on the opposition side.

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Last week, Thai Finance Minister Korn tweeted ...

PT only instigates fear & violence.

BP: And this is from Korn, and not the likes of Thepthai (Abhisit’s personal spokesman) or red shirt leader Jatuporn who are both known for their inflammatory and fiery rhetoric. Just imagine when the campaign starts….

And isn't that defamatory - e.g. libelous? Of course we all know the DSI would never recommend prosecution and the courts would never convict the Yellow side of the line..