thieving christians

[raycarey]

85 percent of U.S. dioceses have detected embezzlement over the past five years, according to Villanova University researchers. “No question about it, it’s a large number,” said Charles Zech, director of the school’s Center for the Study of Church Management and coauthor of the 15-page paper, “Internal Financial Controls in the U.S. Catholic Church,” that details the findings. Supported by a grant from the Louisville Institute, Zech and Villanova accounting professor Robert West surveyed 174 diocesan chief financial officers. Seventy-eight responded.
The researchers don’t put a precise dollar figure on how much was embezzled, but the range indicates it’s significant. In 11 percent of the dioceses at least $500,000 was stolen over the last five years (meaning that a minimum of $4.3 million went missing)

85 percent of U.S. dioceses report embezzling, financial control lacking - Catholic Online


there must be something in the bible that condones this type of behavior.

[stroller]

It wouldn't surprise me, the Old Testament is full of stories of rape, murder, incest, racist discrimination and the like.

Embezzlement is rather harmless, don't you think?

[man with no head]

I always wondered how much the till got tapped when the plates were collected in church when I was a kid. All that money flowing......

[Butterfly]

ah those compassionate christians

[RDN]

Of course, muslims would never do that, would they?

[Little Chuchok]

^ Oh shit no RDN.They are the perfect religion.See the above dudes that love them.Perfect!!

[man with no head]

Only 5 posts this time until Muslims were mentioned; it must be a TD record.

The mods might as well lock the thread now that we've established Muslims are to blame because Christians steal money in church.

[RDN]

Anybody'd think there was some kind of muslim vs. Christian war going on...

[Mr Earl]

It's a war alright, here's a battle the muslims recently lost

[Hootad Binky]

Muslims don't steal from charities! They funnel them to Hamas.

[keda]

When I was living in the PI, I used to visit the garbage dump known as Smoky Mountain each weekend, sit and smoke with its inhabitants and give food, sweets, drinks and token amounts of money to the kids. Whenever something from home needed replacing or discarding it would always end up there, as would items of clothing when I got bored with them; I was always looking for excuses to get rid of stuff, needless to say I was very popular, and my biggest problem was when the kids swamped me, because of their filthy condition that they considered normal.

For those not in the know, Smoky Mountain is an enormous garbage dump that houses tens of thousands of people. Literally, they live inside the garbage, carving out places they call home, and scavenge the discards of a poor society for whatever can be recycled. It is known as Smoky because of the heat buildup causing internal combustion which leads to plumes of smoke all over the place, and occasional spontaneous fires that wipe out entire sections and sometimes people. It is the lowest of the low, the stench is terrifying, and of course nobody cares.

Smoky was officially closed down in the mid-90s, though nothing was done to relocated its population, which has since remained constant, perhaps with natural growth; much like prostitution in the Phillipines, as it was deemed distasteful to the government, they simply decreeed it does not exist.

One Saturday, whilst I was smoking and drinking with some of my regulars, a clergyman turned up, doled up in his outfit, and stereotypically obese. As he approached and began walking inside the Mountain, the dregs of society began appearing from their hovels to greet him, handing over their most valuable possessions - a peso or two, or whatever they could afford! - in exchange for his blessings in the form of a few kind words and a sign of the cross. We nodded, and I followed from a safe distance, intrigued that the Church is so wealthy yet here I was, watching a holy man prise money from people who could be said to own literally nothing but what they scrape from their environment.

He left after about an hour, and as it was time for me to leave also, I happened to be some way behind him and we happened to be going the same way so I followed. He waited by the side of the road for a Jeepney (songteaw), and by the time it arrived I was close enough and boarded with him. We did not communicate except with the occasional smile when our eyes met.

I became a bit uncomfortable as we approached Ermita, where I was staying at the Sundowner Hotel (which months later I was to successfully sue through the courts after an immense, expensive and frightening battle, but that's another matter). I intended to get off a hundred yards or so from my hotel, buy some stuff then go for a shower and change, but noticed that he too was preparing to get off, so I waited and got off with him, wondering what the hell he could be doing here in the red light district, other than go scrounge some more money from more poor people.

I followed the piece of shit to Rosies Diner, a popular farang eating establishment just around the corner, where he sat down and ordered and subsequently gourged himself with a full meal - paid for in coins scourged from his sheep. Naturally I was startled back in revulsion.

The following weekend I visited Smoky as usual, and to the usual welcome. During that stay, I brought the topic around to the priest; it seems he did his round every Saturday, took money, issued promises of superiority in the next life, and left.

I asked them if they knew what their money was being used for, and they said it was for the Church. I told them, nicely, that I happened to see the man go into Rosies for a meal, with their money; they exchanged glances and went quiet.

The next Saturday my reception was frosty, to say the least. Nobody turned out to greet me, and when I walked among them they ignored me; even the children turned away from me when the goodies bag came out, and when I went to my regular family, where others would normally congregate, they shooed me off without a word.

That was my last visit to the garbage city, an awe inspiring experience of faith, and as I left I had in mind the tale of the Tartar prince who, having become a Christian visited Lyons, intending to kiss the feet of the Pope and witness the sanctity of Christian morals. As I recall it his friends and even King Louis tried to dissuade him, but he went, and returned from Lyon more firmly entrenched because, as he said, this must indeed be a great religion which can maintain itself when even its titular head and its retainers are so sunk in depravity and evil.

[raycarey]

Only 5 posts this time until Muslims were mentioned; it must be a TD record. The mods might as well lock the thread now that we've established Muslims are to blame because Christians steal money in church.

it was a neophyte mod who first went off topic.....

Of course, muslims would never do that, would they?

[Sir Burr]

^Yeah...he's obviously an extremist....

[raycarey]

as much as some want to take this apparently touchy thread off topic, i'm going to try to get us back.

just last month in the US......

POPLAR BLUFF, Mo. - We're well into the season of giving, so small wonder leaders of one Heartland church want to know why one of their members would take from them!
The Secretary of Highland Drive Church of Christ in Poplar Bluff now faces charges for stealing more than $25,000.
Police say it's been going on for more than six years, and no one noticed until recently.
Investigators point out that's because 47-year-old Kim Puckett worked as a book-keeper and secretary at the church, so she had sole access to all the church accounts, checks and credit cards.
Investigators say volunteers who took over Puckett's position after she left to take up another position, noticed something wrong.
"The first four months of 2006 there was a little over $ 30,000 worth of the church's funds that she's already agreed she took. It's not going to surprise us if the funds that were taken don't reach a quarter of a million dollars," Assistant Police Chief Gary Pride says.

Church secretary charged with stealing from church

this happened a couple of years ago in singapore....

CATHOLIC priest was sentenced to seven-and-half years' jail Friday,23 April, for the "disgraceful" embezzlement of S$5.1 million (US$3.05 million) in church funds. District judge Jasvender Kaur said Father Joachim Kang, 55, was guilty of "a startling case of dishonesty" and criticised him for showing no remorse for his crimes.

Disgraced priest gets seven years for stealing millions in church funds

there are lots of christians on this board....do you have any personal experiences with theft from your church? i'm not implying that you are thieving christians, but perhaps you have an anecdote to share.

[GooMaiRoo]

Of course, muslims would never do that, would they?

When I was in the Philippines, I noticed that most of the money changers were Muslims. A (Christian) friend told me it was because Muslims were regarded as more honest than the rest of the population. Treating women like livestock, killing adulterers and blasphemers, etc..., Muslim doctrine is a real offense to anyone who has lived in a socially tolerant Buddhist culture like Thailand. But the wrath of Allah has made the average Muslim avoid common thievery. At least give them that much.

[Little Chuchok]

Ray, I'm sure you can find more example than that.Nice dig though.....

[raycarey]

Ray, I'm sure you can find more example than that.

you're right. amongst christians this type of behavior appears to be endemic.

this past thanksgiving in cincinnati...

LEBANON – A former business manager is accused of skimming $100,000 from St. Francis de Sales parish.

Mark Anthony, 47, of Dayton, Ohio, has been charged with theft after money was discovered missing. St. Francis de Sales, Lebanon’s only Catholic church, has a growing congregation of nearly 1,000 families.

Anthony is scheduled to face the felony charge Dec. 15 in Warren County Common Pleas Court.

The church expects to recoup its losses through insurance coverage, officials said.

Anthony, who served as the parish’s business manager for four years

The Enquirer - Man accused of stealing from church

[GooMaiRoo]

[quote=raycarey;236864]

there must be something in the bible that condones this type of behavior.

I don't see much in the Bible that condones bureaucratizing Christianity into churches, let alone stealing from these churches. From the New Testament, Matthew 6: "But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret." We probably shouldn't confuse an ancient book about a revolutionary with the snake-oil salesmen, crooks and pederasts who inhabit many modern-day 'Christian' churches.

[Little Chuchok]

keep going Ray.There must be thousands more...

[RDN]

Only 5 posts this time until Muslims were mentioned; it must be a TD record. The mods might as well lock the thread now that we've established Muslims are to blame because Christians steal money in church.

it was a neophyte mod who first went off topic......

I wish you wouldn't use big words.

[stroller]

Today's addition to my English vocabulary: Neophyte.

And no, RDN is not one, he probably has longer mod-experience than the rest of us in Issues, if one would want to compare on this basis...

[man with no head]

If that's the case he really should know better than to inject off-topic remarks in the current topic, eh? (unless there's some connection between Muslims and Christians who steal in church that I'm missing).

Another thread killer as far as I'm concerned.

[raycarey]

Another thread killer as far as I'm concerned.

yeah, it seems some christians prefer to slur other religions rather than look critically at their own.

anyway, nice avatar......"don't fuck with the jesus!"

[RDN]

Another thread killer as far as I'm concerned.

yeah, it seems some christians prefer to slur other religions rather than look critically at their own.

anyway, nice avatar......"don't fuck with the jesus!"

I'm glad you brought up the subject of avatars, ray. Who's the guy in yours, and why has he got a dead rat on his head?

[raycarey]

RDN
why are you intent on killing this thread? not very mod like...especially one with such lengthy mod experience.

it's somewhat nettlesome, but in the spirit of the sabbath, i'll humor you....my comment was in reference to surasak's avatar which is taken from the movie, 'the big lebowski'. at one point in the movie, one of the characters in his avatar says, "don't fuck with the jesus'.

ok? do you feel included now? do you mind if the thread gets back on topic? thanks.