Thread: Thousands to occupy Wall Street in protest

^^Thanks for the econ lesson Koman. I feel suddenly enlightened. You claim to be an independent but your views all ways seem to track straight to the right.

I could very well invest my money in oil, natural gas, logging, coal power and make a killing on the market. I choose not to. Why? Because I have a conscious and feel a responsibility to invest my money in ways that do not crush the working class, destroy the environment and wreak havoc on the stability of the global economy.

I am a capitalist and believe in the true free market but that is not what exists here in America.

As far as the city I live in the people here are leftist due in part to their higher levels of education (although it is pretty easy to see that the corporatist oligarchy that exists in America is not working). Yes it is a liberal city it always has been. We did fine before the big corporations and we would be fine without them if they left tomorrow. Seattle was a sleepy fishing town to begin with anyway. That said the tech corporations located here are far more progressive and forward thinking then big oil, wall street and the Koch brothers. They have much more ethical practices and while not perfect are a far cry from the afore mentioned.

The thing that gets lost in the wash here is that at the end of the day none of the valid members of these protests are arguing to take down capitalism. Quite the opposite they are arguing for a return to it.

With regards to the gentle name calling and the reds I would not take it personal. Its part of the game on TD.

In closing you mention three countries with universal health care and far higher tax rates then the US; Germany, UK and Canada. It is kinda funny that all three of those nations have higher standards of living, longer lifespans, and more upward mobility then the good ole USA. Who would have thunk it?

Originally Posted by sabang

Originally Posted by koman

Marxist indoctrinated teacher in highschool convinced you that wealth is something that comes from the government

Umm, got any more of that Kool aid.

Wished I had a guy like that. Sadly many of my teachers where more like you Koman. They bored me to tears with their toe the line bullshit.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

For some reason, folks like snubbles and now yourself see these entities such as corporations not people. Y'all's elevators obviously don't go all the way to the top.

I guess its ok if we just look at those big corporations as people it cant be so bad. I mean the SS and the KGB are just people too!

"left vs right", & "old vs young" are divide & rule diversions of our energies.

the ROOT of the problem is HOW MONEY WORKS.

This animated documentary is WELL WORTH YOUR 47 MINS, if you haven't watched it before.

The creator made the whole film without mentioning the Elephant in the Room even once!

Uploaded by mysticdave666 on Feb 6, 2011
Money As Debt is a fast-paced and highly entertaining animated feature by artist & videographer, Paul Grignon. It explains today's magically perverse DEBT-MONEY SYSTEM in terms that are easy to understand.

Check out his website: Money as Debt

Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal, there is no human relation between master and slave. Debt- government, corporate and household has reached astronomical proportions. Where does all this money come from? How could there BE that much money to lend? The answer is...there isn't. Today, MONEY IS DEBT. If there were NO DEBT there would be NO MONEY.
If this is puzzling to you, you are not alone. Very few people understand, even though all of us are affected.

The Police State Road Map

First published January 2004. Last updated March 2005.
Download as PDF.

Contents

Preface

Part 1
Three Hundred Trillion Dollars and Counting

Chapter 1 MONEY

1.1 The Money Magicians

1.2 The Banking Cartel

Chapter 2 THE GREAT TRUST

2.1 The Military-Industrial Complex

2.2 Five Monopolies

2.3 Who Owns the Stock?

2.4 Who Owns the Media?

Chapter 3 THE GREAT TRUST AND WESTERN FOREIGN POLICY

3.1 International Relations Policy Groups

3.2 Tax Exempt Foundations and Charity Funding

3.3 The IMF and World Bank

3.4 Control over Western Governments

Chapter 4 COMMUNISM AND FASCISM

4.1 The Heart of the Issue: Power and Property Rights

4.2 Lessons From History

Chapter 5 LESSER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES

5.1 Empowering Third World Governments

5.2 The Sell Off

Chapter 6 PRIVATISATION IN THE WEST

6.1 Public Private Partnership

6.2 The Policy Comes from the Top

Part 2

The Art of Killing Quietly

Chapter 7 THE ECONOMY

7.1 The Function of Poverty

7.2 Monetary and Fiscal Policy

7.3 Free Trade Agreements

7.4 Open Borders

7.5 The Environmental Movement

7.6 War as a Means of Planned Waste

7.7 Criminalizing Society

7.8 Disease

Chapter 8 THE NEW POLITICAL SYSTEM

8.1 The Future of Democracy

8.2 Banning Opposition to World Government

8.3 Creating Regional Governments

8.4 World Government or World War Three

Chapter 9 THE WAR ON TERROR

9.1 CIA/MI6/Mossad/ISI: The Global Terrorist Network

9.2 Proliferating Weapons of Mass Destruction

Chapter 10 MARTIAL LAW

10.1 Martial Law Legislation

10.2 Foreign Troops

10.3 Gun Confiscation

Chapter 11 THE LEGAL APPARATUS OF TOTALITARIANISM

11.1 Integration

11.2 UK Mental Health Laws

11.3 Abolition of Juries and Arbitrary Detention

11.4 Expanding the Definition of 'Terrorism'

11.5 Surveillance Legislation

11.6 The Ruling Class Above the Law

Chapter 12 THE TECHNOLOGICAL APPARATUS OF TOTALITARIANISM

12.1 ID Cards and Biometric Identification

12.2 Computer Databases

12.3 DNA Databases

12.4 Implantable Microchips

12.5 Radio Frequency Identification

12.6 Car and Mobile Phone Tracking

12.7 Surveillance Cameras

12.8 Black Budget Funding

Chapter 13 THE FAMILY AND RELIGION

13.1 Elitism and the New Age Religion

13.2 Caught in the Act at Bohemian Grove

13.3 Targeting the Young

13.4 Banning Monotheism

13.5 Enforcing Love of Big Brother

13.6 Sexual Abuse

Chapter 14 POPULATION CONTROL

14.1 Funding Population Control

14.2 Aims and Methods

14.3 Environmentalism

14.4 Public Health Policy and Western Medicine

14.5 Cancer

14.6 Vaccination

14.7 Mind Control Technology

14.8 Junk Food

14.9 Fluoride

14.10 Germ Warfare

14.11 Depleted Uranium

14.12 Forced Abortion and Sterilization

14.13 GM Food

14.14 Weather Modification

14.15 Nanotechnology

14.16 Eugenics

Conclusion

I am going to repost a vid that I think is really important to understand the reason that the OWS is going on. Boontard reposts shit all the time so enjoy;

^
Guess you still haven't internalized the concept of no free money yet, snubbles?

WATCH LIVE: Police evict ‘Occupy Wall Street’ camp


in the link: OccupyNYC - live streaming video powered by Livestream

or: anomylos on USTREAM: .

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

^
Guess you still haven't internalized the concept of no free money yet, snubbles?

Watch the video you idiot. You make yourself look even more stupid by posting that nonsense.

" I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.

If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.".

Thomas Jefferson

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

^
Yep, seen that one before.

The whiners who are populating these pathetic protests need to absorb where money originates. koman made some good points in an earlier post, it doesn't grow on trees like some of entitlement crowd like to think.

If you'd "seen that one before" (assuming you mean the "Money As Debt" video), then you would know that, *for the global central banksters* (read: the Rothschild Global Usury Empire)-- they do indeed create "money" out of thin air, and then loan it out at compounding interest, turbocharged by the fractional reserve ponzi-scheme through which banks then create additional "money" out of thin air, to be loaned out at compounding interest.

As to "doesn't grow on trees", a tiny fraction of the total "money" in circulation- that fraction which takes the form of printed paper script- that "money" of course actually does "grow on trees"- but only if you're a key member of that tiny ruling-elite "entitlement crowd" known as the Rothschild Global Usury Empire.


Question for Booner:

Do you know who OWNS the US Federal Reserve? Hint: despite its deliberately deceptive name, its NOT "Federal" (as in a branch of the US govt), and it has no "reserves". It's a PRIVATELY OWNED, FOR-PROFIT CARTEL OF BANKS.

Can you NAME some of the "Federal Reserve's" OWNERS (shareholders) for us, Booner?


Advance this video to 5:10, and check what Alan Greenspan tells Jim Leher,

"The Bankers Manifesto of 1892"

Written by Administrator Sunday, 15 February 2009 16:05


[Note to readers: this is a "revised" version (i.e. updated and re-edited) from a blog post which I originally wrote late last year.]


The actions of the banker-servants in the U.S. government must seem utterly incomprehensible to most people. Since "Helicopter" Ben Bernanke and "Bazooka" Paulson began handing out blank-cheques to the U.S. financial crime syndicate, they have already spent or pledged more than $10 TRILLION. With the balance-sheets of Wall Street banksters leveraged by an average of 30:1, this has amounted to paying off 'bad bets' at 30:1 odds - with most of those bets based on the (declining) housing prices of the U.S. market.

Meanwhile, only roughly 1% of that mind-boggling total has actually been directed to bailing out the housing sector itself. It is simple arithmetic that bailing out U.S. real estate assets directly would be 30 times as efficient as the current policy of bailing out the banksters' leveraged-bets.

Could even the brain-dead puppets of the U.S. Congress be throwing away tax dollars with this degree of stupidity and inefficiency? What if there was a "method" to their madness?

To properly answer this question, it is necessary to look back through history - seeking some common "theme". To me, such a theme is painfully obvious. Since the beginning of civilization, there has only been one, real "war" - the war between rich and poor.

In the times of Kings, Queens, and Emperors, that "war" was out in the open. However, having observed how badly the war was going with the "kings, queens, and emperors" (lol!), the truly rich got smarter. They realized that the only long-term means of getting the "little people" to willingly wear their yokes is by deceiving them into believing those yokes don't exist.A"yoke of debt" has proven to be infinitely superior to the chains of slavery, in that the masses not only willingly embrace their debt-yokes, but have been steadily striving, themselves, to make those yokes both larger and tighter. And nothing in history has accelerated the bankers' grip over the masses as much as the credit card.

Programmed into believing that a credit card "limit" was the same thing as a savings-account balance, hundreds of millions of people in Western industrialized societies have willingly sought to indebt themselves to the maximum amount possible. Roughly half of these self-created "victims" are Americans, who also carry the highest average debts.

Simultaneously, the filthy-rich have sought to transform their title in this new paradigm of slavery from "rulers" to "bankers". And while bankers get rich from people as they pay back there self-incurred debts, they become wealthier (and much more powerful) from bankrupting the "little people" and seizing their assets.

Over the past century, their propaganda machine has become much more adept, and infinitely more sophisticated. As a result, and with the end of a "free press" (except for the internet) you will no longer hear the rich openly discuss their plans as they did in 1892. Meanwhile, Americans are bombarded with the message that living with huge debts is not simply acceptable but desirable.

The "Bankers Manifesto" was written in 1892, but apart from some archaic language, it sounds like it could have been written in 1992. Can anyone argue that this "manifesto" appears to perfectly describe Wall Street's "play-book" in 2009?


"The Bankers Manifesto of 1892"

(Revealed by US Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. from Minnesota before the US Congress sometime during his term of office between the years of 1907 and 1917 to warn the citizens.)

""We (the bankers) must proceed with caution and guard every move made, for the lower order of people are already showing signs of restless commotion [that would be us]. Prudence will therefore show a policy of apparently yielding to the popular will until our plans are so far consummated that we can declare our designs without fear of any organized resistance [that would be SOON]. The Farmers Alliance and Knights of Labor organizations in the United States should be carefully watched by our trusted men, and we must take immediate steps to control these organizations in our interest or disrupt them.

At the coming Omaha Convention to be held July 4th (1892), our men must attend and direct its movement, or else there will be set on foot such antagonism to our designs as may require force to overcome. This at the present time would be premature. We are not yet ready for such a crisis. Capital must protect itself in every possible manner through combination (conspiracy) and legislation.

The courts must be called to our aid, debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.

When through the process of the law, the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of the government applied to a central power of imperial wealth under the control of the leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders.

History repeats itself in regular cycles. This truth is well known among our principal men who are engaged in forming an imperialism of the world [that would be SENIOR politicians]. While they are doing this, the people must be kept in a state of political antagonism.

The question of tariff reform must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of protection with the reciprocity must be forced to view through the Republican Party.

By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expand their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete action, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished."

***


^ I want our resident "LEFT vs RIGHT" keyboard-commando/FAUX-News-mind-slave to read that last paragraph several times..

Found one similar to Boonme's...

^^^^ *

* has Good Hair Perry fetish,

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

You are one of those retards who continue to equate SS as an entitlement which it is not for those who have been paying into it for scores of years.

Social Security is not some sort of gov't. savings account, Booners. YOU paid the benefits for others while you were working and I pay for yours right now, eventually there won't be enough working people to support the number of SS recipients and that's when tough choices will have to be made. You won't have to worry about that because you'll probably be long gone before this entitlement program reaches this imbalance anyway, but I will. Would you be so glib if you were in my shoes? I think not.

^
Who's being glib?

The point here is the funds I've been paying into SS for scores of years I'm entitled to recoup. Can't be any easier to understand than that? And, the amounts that I have paid in will not be depleated before I kick off so there's a surplus.

Also, since I won't be living in the States in my 'Golden Years' I will not be able to make use of all the Medicare funds I've paid in. My choice of course but there's that...

Back on Topic:



Yep...just like them Tea Baggers, eh?

Ready for a good laugh this Wednesday morning?
Just ran across this Proposed List of OWS Demands:

Repeal the Taft-Hartley Act. Unionize ALL workers immediately.

Raise the minimum wage immediately to $18/hr. Create a maximum wage of $90/hr to eliminate inequality. (that's sure to work, eh?)

Institute a 6 hour workday, and 6 weeks of paid vacation.

Institute a moratorium on all foreclosures and layoffs immediately.

Repeal racist and xenophobic English-only laws.

Open the borders to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Offer immediate, unconditional amnesty, to all undocumented residents of the US.

Create a single-payer, universal health care system.

Pass stricter campaign finance reform laws. Ban all private donations. All campaigns will receive equal funding, provided by the taxpayers.

Institute a negative income tax, and tax the very rich at rates up to 90%.

Pass far stricter environmental protection and animal rights laws.

Allow workers to elect their supervisors.

Lower the retirement age to 55. Increase Social Security benefits.

Create a 5% annual wealth tax for the very rich.

Ban the private ownership of land.

Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda.

Reduce the age of majority to 16.

Abolish the death penalty and life in prison. We call for the immediate release of all death row inmates from death row and transferred to regular prisons.

Release all political prisoners immediately. (didn't know we had any?)

Immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan

Abolish the debt limit.

Ban private gun ownership.

Strengthen the separation of church and state.

Immediate debt forgiveness for all.


I really like the last one - debt forgiveness for all. Are we talking major irresponsibility here or what?


Source

...snubbles seen nodding in approval on the majority of demands w/exception to perhaps the private ownership of firearms

^Once again you twist reality for your own gain. A disclaimer from that very page;

"This content is user submitted and not an official statement"

Repeal the Taft-Hartley Act. Unionize ALL workers immediately.

Raise the minimum wage immediately to $18/hr. Create a maximum wage of $90/hr to eliminate inequality. (that's sure to work, eh?)

Institute a 6 hour workday, and 6 weeks of paid vacation.

Institute a moratorium on all foreclosures and layoffs immediately.

Repeal racist and xenophobic English-only laws.

Open the borders to all immigrants, legal or illegal. Offer immediate, unconditional amnesty, to all undocumented residents of the US.

Create a single-payer, universal health care system.

Pass stricter campaign finance reform laws. Ban all private donations. All campaigns will receive equal funding, provided by the taxpayers.

Institute a negative income tax, and tax the very rich at rates up to 90%.

Pass far stricter environmental protection and animal rights laws.

Allow workers to elect their supervisors.

Lower the retirement age to 55. Increase Social Security benefits.

Create a 5% annual wealth tax for the very rich.

Ban the private ownership of land.

Make homeschooling illegal. Religious fanatics use it to feed their children propaganda.

Reduce the age of majority to 16.

Abolish the death penalty and life in prison. We call for the immediate release of all death row inmates from death row and transferred to regular prisons.

Release all political prisoners immediately. (didn't know we had any?)

Immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan

Abolish the debt limit.

Ban private gun ownership.

Strengthen the separation of church and state.

Immediate debt forgiveness for all.

Mao would have been proud.
Whoever proposed this lot is obviously out of their gourd.
Did the IP resolve to a mental institution?

Originally Posted by bsnub

The thing that gets lost in the wash here is that at the end of the day none of the valid members of these protests are arguing to take down capitalism. Quite the opposite they are arguing for a return to it.

I am totally in support of any tent dwellers who wish to return to the capitalist system. Unfortunately what I am seeing is a hoard of naive youngsters and a sprinkling of aging hippies ranting about "banksters" and waving signs that say things like "Marx was right".....waving old Soviet Union flags and demanding a wide variety of things from legal dope to free education and healthcare.

There may be a few who have some understanding of where wealth comes from and perhaps even a few who understand that the things they want are never "free"

The system that has upset them so much clearly needs fixing, but it will have to be fixed by people who participate in the system and have some understanding of what is required to bring it back to health. There are some fundamentals that would make great strides towards bringing back a true free market and healthy capitalist system.

Abolish short selling
Abolish hedge funds (and let their managers work at Wal-Mart...mopping floors)
Rules to forbid the sale of stock for a period of 90 days after purchase
Segregate investment banking from retail banking ---totally
Forbid banks from owning or exercising control over insurance companies, brokerage firms or any other type of financial institution.
Abolish credit default swaps
Strickly limit the content of dirivitives...and implement strict valuation forumla

Now...this would draw a withering attack from the crony network on Wall St. and the City of London, but it would drive the raw speculators and gamblers out of the markets and give real investors the confidence to participate in real investments once again. They would be screaming that the market would be destroyed....liquidity would disappear ....stock trading would greatly decline etc etc.

What the "markets" and the whole world economy needs is stability and a reasonable degree of predictibility, not constant manipulation by hedge fund managers and other speculators who thrive on instability and uncertainity. They in fact create both in order to profit at the expense of real investors.

Now, where's me tent and sleeping bag..... Better take my guitar too and brush up on a few old Dillon songs......

The negative effect of Labor Union

A resources boom is fueling demand for mining labor and has spurred skyrocketing pay. James Dinnison, a 25-year-old high-school dropout from Western Australia, makes $200,000 a year running drills in underground mines.

The $200,000-a-Year Mine Worker - WSJ.com

Originally Posted by koman

Abolish short selling
Abolish hedge funds (and let their managers work at Wal-Mart...mopping floors)
Rules to forbid the sale of stock for a period of 90 days after purchase
Segregate investment banking from retail banking ---totally
Forbid banks from owning or exercising control over insurance companies, brokerage firms or any other type of financial institution.
Abolish credit default swaps
Strickly limit the content of dirivitives...and implement strict valuation forumla
Now...this would draw a withering attack from the crony network on Wall St. and the City of London, but it would drive the raw speculators and gamblers out of the markets and give real investors the confidence to participate in real investments once again. They would be screaming that the market would be destroyed....liquidity would disappear ....stock trading would greatly decline etc etc.
What the "markets" and the whole world economy needs is stability and a reasonable degree of predictibility, not constant manipulation by hedge fund managers and other speculators who thrive on instability and uncertainity. They in fact create both in order to profit at the expense of real investors.

That would be a great first step. Add in the following and we would really be cooking;

Take the corporate money out of politics.
Abolish the Federal Reserve.
Pass a constitutional amendment to end corporate personhood.