Any doubts about Climate Change?

**blue** · 10-10-2014, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by blue

Perhaps the best idea for the warmists is just to go back to fixing the data...

Then right on cue ( ignoring NASA s evidence post 1723)
from the above link- the biased publication The New Scientist - we get:

It's worse than we thought. Scientists may have hugely underestimated the extent of global warming because temperature readings from southern hemisphere seas were inaccurate

.

of course they were ...

**Umbuku** · 10-10-2014, 03:20 PM

You should publish your research and win a Nobel prize Blue, seeing as you appear to know.more than 99.99% of all climate scientists.

No answer for these studies being retrospective of the fact of global warming then?

**S Landreth** · 10-10-2014, 04:10 PM

NOAA: Record Antarctic Sea Ice Growth Linked To Its Staggering Loss Of Land Ice

NOAA said in a news release Tuesday that “as counterintuitive as expanding winter Antarctic sea ice may appear on a warming planet, it may actually be a manifestation of recent warming.”

The most important thing to know about Antarctica and ice is that a large part of the South Pole’s great sheet of land ice is close to or at a point of no return for irreversible collapse. The rate of loss of that ice has reached record levels, tripling in the last five years alone. Only immediate action to sharply reverse carbon pollution could stop or significantly slow that.

And that really matters since 90 percent of Earth’s ice is in the Antarctic ice sheet, and even its partial collapse could raise sea levels by tens of feet (over a period of centuries) and force coastal cities to be abandoned.

So you can imagine why the people who don’t want to take any action on climate change focus on floating seasonal Antarctic sea ice, whose winter maximum has been increasing (unlike Arctic sea ice, which has sharply declined). In September, the extent of seasonal Antarctic sea ice reached a new record.

For the dwindling number of people who seriously deny the objective reality of man-made warming, this is “proof” that their anti-scientific views are right. For the 97 percent of climate scientists (and world governments and others) who understand the reality of human-caused climate change, this is an intriguing puzzle to be solved.

In the reality camp, Skeptical Science reviews the scientific literature (here), explaining that “Antarctic sea ice has been growing over the last few decades but it certainly is not due to cooling — the Southern Ocean has shown warming over same period.”

So why the increased sea ice growth? The National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) explained this week that the best explanation from NSIDC scientists is that it “might be caused by changing wind patterns or recent ice sheet melt from warmer, deep ocean water reaching the coastline … The melt water freshens and cools the deep ocean layer, and it contributes to a cold surface layer surrounding Antarctica, creating conditions that favor ice growth.”

In its release, NOAA goes into more detail on why scientists think that. NOAA first points out that “much of this year’s sea ice growth occurred late in the winter season, and weather records indicate that strong southerly winds blew over the Weddell Sea in mid-September 2014.”

NOAA goes on to explain:

Winds probably did not act alone to spur so much sea ice growth; melting land ice may have played a role. Most of Antarctica’s ice lies in the ice sheets that cover the continent, and in recent decades, that ice has been melting. Along the coastline, ice shelves float on the ocean surface, and much of the recent melt may be driven by warm water from the deep ocean rising and making contact with ice shelf undersides.

How does the melting of land ice matter to sea ice formation? The resulting meltwater is fresher than the seawater. As it mixes with the seawater, the meltwater makes the nearby seawater slightly less dense, and slightly closer to the freezing point than the ocean water below. This less dense seawater spreads out across the ocean surface surrounding the continent, forming a stable pool of surface water that is close to the freezing point, and close to the ice onto which it could freeze.

That’s why NOAA concludes, “as counterintuitive as expanding winter Antarctic sea ice may appear on a warming planet, it may actually be a manifestation of recent warming.”

Certainly Antarctic seasonal sea ice trends are an intriguing scientific puzzle, and scientists are only starting to have a fuller understanding of the causes in a warming world. But we must keep our eyes on the prize: Sharp reductions on carbon pollution to slow and, if possible, stop Antarctic (and Greenland) land ice trends before hundreds of millions of people are forced from their homes worldwide by rising seas — and hundreds of millions more are threatened with Sandy-level storm surges on a regular basis.

The most important thing to know about Antarctica and ice is that a large part of the South Pole’s great sheet of land ice is close to or at a point of no return for irreversible collapse.

This isn't good news

**blue** · 10-10-2014, 04:35 PM

For the 97 % brainwashed by Political correctness - and its MMGW lark,
open your eyes and start thinking afresh.
eg read this :

"Long-lost” satellite images shed new light on global sea ice...enormous holes found in the Arctic ice back in the 1960’s...Antarctica sea ice reached record highs and lows just two years apart

12:45 PM | ?Long-lost? satellite images shed new light on global sea ice?enormous holes found in the Arctic ice back in the 1960?s?Antarctica sea ice reached record highs and lows just two years apart « Vencore Weather

The Antarctica sea ice extent findings are perhaps even more amazing. Using these long-lost satellite images, it appears that the Antarctica sea ice extent reached record high levels in 1964 only to be followed by record low amounts just two years later in 1966, and the earliest maximum sea ice extent was seen in 1969. As is often the case with more data, it often leads to more questions than answers. Video discussion on this by NASA scientists at

**JetsetBkk** · 10-10-2014, 05:50 PM

Nice one, Blue.

**Umbuku** · 10-10-2014, 08:34 PM

I have brought my previous study (see here and here) up-to-date by reviewing peer-reviewed articles in scientific journals over the period from Nov. 12, 2012 through December 31, 2013. I found 2,258 articles, written by a total of 9,136 authors. (Download the chart above here.) Only one article, by a single author in the Herald of the Russian Academy of Sciences, rejected man-made global warming. I discuss that article here.

http://www.desmogblog.com/2014/01/08/why-climate-deniers-have-no-scientific-credibility-only-1-9136-study-authors-rejects-global-warming

99.99%.
There's a link to an Excel spreadsheet of all the articles and authors.
Get to work and debunk them all...

Below, we give you 21 numbers to help explain one of the most pressing global issues of our time.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/1...ushpmg00000048

**blue** · 11-10-2014, 03:28 AM

You know very well, the questions-
Does man contribute at all to the climate change ?
and
Is man and his Co2 the main driver?
are entirley different .
Yes the first gets the high % and the often quoted near unanimous agreement ,whilst the 2nd question is never asked nor its % result calculated.

Anyway I remember , maybe 6 or so years ago when the 'scientists' were 100 % sure that Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens had not interbred , they even had early DNA eveidence as proof...
Whilst I argued they had interbreed, as how else could the European race be so different to Africans in so short a time .
I was right and they was wrong .

Round 2 -
Is man made co2 a major factor in our climate ?
I say no and
my money is on me .

**Takeovers** · 11-10-2014, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by blue

Is man made co2 a major factor in our climate ?
I say no and
my money is on me .

Hail the great blue multiscientist.

For me the case is closed.

CO2 is a dominant greenhouse gas. Greenhouse gases help increase the earth temperature.

CO2 is massively increased due to human activities. That is a fact no sane person can deny.

One does not need more proof than that. Research is for the details of what happens exactly and when. There is a lot not known yet.

**blue** · 11-10-2014, 04:46 AM

I'd like to point out that I wish MMGW were true , I live in the cold north and would welcome a 10 degree increase, so its with a heavy heart that i bring the bad news to this thread.
Anyway lets get on with the cut and paste debate
next up
Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming Crisis

Don’t look now, but maybe a scientific consensus exists concerning global warming after all. Only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis, according to a survey reported in the peer-reviewed Organization Studies. By contrast, a strong majority of the 1,077 respondents believe that nature is the primary cause of recent global warming and/or that future global warming will not be a very serious problem.
....

People who look behind the self-serving statements by global warming alarmists about an alleged “consensus” have always known that no such alarmist consensus exists among scientists. Now that we have access to hard surveys of scientists themselves, it is becoming clear that not only do many scientists dispute the asserted global warming crisis, but these skeptical scientists may indeed form a scientific consensus.

Peer-Reviewed Survey Finds Majority Of Scientists Skeptical Of Global Warming Crisis - Forbes

**S Landreth** · 14-10-2014, 03:24 AM

But, but it’s cold

The Planet Just Had Its Hottest September On Record

Last month was the warmest September globally since records began being kept in 1880, NASA reported Sunday. January through September data have 2014 already at the third warmest on record. Projections by NOAA make clear 2014 is taking aim at hottest year on record.

Remarkably, this September record occurred even though we’re still waiting for the start of El Niño, which reveals just how strong the underlying trend of human-caused warming is. It’s usually the combination of the long-term manmade warming trend and the regional El Niño warming pattern that leads to new global temperature records.

**MrG** · 14-10-2014, 08:18 PM

Growth Of Antarctic Sea Ice A ‘Warning Bell' For Coastal Flooding
Climate Central | By John Upton

This story originally appeared on Climate Central.
The spreading sheet of sea ice around Antarctica could be viewed as a napkin being draped over a monstrous water pistol. If, that is, the gelid napkin was a self-assembling machine that could reach beneath itself, aim the squirt gun at the planet’s shorelines, and squeeze the trigger.

Research suggests that the expansion of Antarctic sea ice heralds ocean changes that will hasten ice sheet melting, by trapping heat beneath a layer of cold surface water, worsening flooding around the world.

The stunning outward spread of ice floes atop the seas surrounding the South Pole has been caused by cold freshwater flowing out of melting Antarctic glaciers. (Shifting winds may also be playing a role in the breaking of previous Austral sea ice records.) That melting is forming layers of unusually cold and relatively salt-free surface waters in the region, the tops of which are being frosted with layers of blue-white ice.

**harrybarracuda** · 15-10-2014, 06:31 PM

Well the Pentagon doesn't have any doubts.

Pentagon warns the US military of climate change

16:30 14 October 2014 by Shaoni Bhattacharya

"Climate change does not respect borders and we must work together to fight its threats". These are not the words of a tree-hugger, but the US Department of Defense.

A report published on Monday says that extreme weather, rising temperatures, unpredictable rainfall and rising oceans could fuel armed insurgency and heighten the impact of a pandemic, through their effects on political instability, poverty, migration and resource disputes.

It warns that developments like these could undermine fragile governments and challenge stable ones, creating "an avenue for extremist ideologies and conditions that foster terrorism".

The roadmap, intended to prepare the US military for climate change, reveals that more than 7000 US military installations have already been surveyed for vulnerability. Some sites have even begun to prepare for sea-level rises.

The report also notes that rising seas may affect amphibious landings, while extreme weather could interfere with reconnaissance flights over foreign territory.

It points out that the military may increasingly be called upon to help civil authorities when natural disasters occur.

"We must be clear-eyed about the security threats presented by climate change, and we must be proactive in addressing them," said US Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel as he launched the report in Arequipa, Peru.

Pentagon warns the US military of climate change - environment - 14 October 2014 - New Scientist

**Neo** · 24-10-2014, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by S Landreth

But, but it’s cold

The difference between weather and climate

**Takeovers** · 24-10-2014, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Neo

The difference between weather and climate

Sigh!

Has been explained a hundred times already. It is consistently ignored. Makes me think those remarks are mostly trolling.

**Neo** · 24-10-2014, 09:43 PM

Yet none explain it more eloquently than Neil deGrasse Tyson,
perhaps it will help them remember next time

**blue** · 24-10-2014, 09:54 PM

weather = when data doesn't fit MMGWs forecasts eg the lack of warming this century.
climate = when data seems to fit their propaganda eg a warm afternoon in late october.

**Neo** · 24-10-2014, 10:05 PM

Keep drinking the devil's advocaat blue

**S Landreth** · 02-11-2014, 09:56 PM

BBC News - Fossil fuels should be 'phased out by 2100' says IPCC

The unrestricted use of fossil fuels should be phased out by 2100, if the world is to avoid dangerous climate change, a UN-backed expert panel says.

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says in a stark report that most of the world's electricity can - and must - be produced from low-carbon sources by 2050.

If not, the world faces "severe, pervasive and irreversible" damage.

The UN said inaction would cost "much more" than taking the necessary action.

Those who choose to ignore or dispute the science so clearly laid out in this report do so at great risk for all of us and for our kids and grandkids”

"Science has spoken," Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said. "There is no ambiguity in their message. Leaders must act. Time is not on our side."

The IPCC's Synthesis Report was published on Sunday in Copenhagen, after a week of intense debate between scientists and government officials.

"There is a myth that climate action will cost heavily," said Mr Ban, "but inaction will cost much more."

snip

It re-states many familiar positions:

Warming is "unequivocal" and the human influence on climate is clear

Since the 1950s the observed changes are unprecedented over decades to millennia

The period from 1983 to 2012, it says, was likely the warmest 30 year period of the last 1,400 years

Warming impacts are already being seen around the globe, in the acidification of the oceans, the melting of arctic ice and poorer crop yields in many parts

Without concerted action on carbon, temperatures will increase over the coming decades and could be almost 5C above pre-industrial levels by the end of this century

**Ozcol** · 03-11-2014, 05:40 AM

The scientists hsve to come up with a new claim every now and again or people will forget they are there and they will fall off the gravy train.

**S Landreth** · 15-11-2014, 03:09 PM

Deiner’s don’t look at this news, you might have to start rethinking that pause crap.

Warmest October On Record GISS NASA

The data for October has just been added to the NOAA GISS instrument record, which runs from 1880 to the present.

October was the warmest on record, just beating out 2005.

Overall, it is looking increasingly likely that 2014 will tie or beat the record for warmest year in the instrumental record, in terms of surface temperature. This does not count the ocean warming which is substantial. But we tend to look at the surface record as an approximation of global warming.

Here’s the graph:

**S Landreth** · 16-11-2014, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by S Landreth

Deiner’s don’t look at this news, you might have to start rethinking that pause crap.

Overall, it is looking increasingly likely that 2014 will tie or beat the record for warmest year in the instrumental record, in terms of surface temperature.

Originally Posted by blue

Who denies the leveling off of the Global Temperature for the past 15 years?

I like how the deniers are now saying "leveling off".

**blue** · 16-11-2014, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by S Landreth

I like how the deniers are now saying "leveling off".

errr that what it is

**S Landreth** · 16-11-2014, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by blue

Originally Posted by S Landreth

I like how the deniers are now saying "leveling off".

errr that what it is

Blue you might want to spend the rest of your day looking for a graph that doesn’t state “NO” Global Warming….

And one that says “leveling off”…..

Pity you cannot go back and edit some of your old posts,……

Originally Posted by blue

No global warming at all for 17 years 9 months

Originally Posted by blue

Global Temperature Update – Still no global warming for 17 years 10 months

**palexxxx** · 16-11-2014, 09:52 AM

Where does carbon dioxide really come from? - Coeur d'Alene Press: Weather Gems

This is all very confusing, have all the other scientists who consider human activity is contributing to global warming got it wrong?
Ian Rutherford Plimer is an Australian geologist, professor emeritus of earth sciences at the University of Melbourne, professor of mining geology at the University of Adelaide, and the director of multiple mineral exploration and mining companies. He has published 130 scientific papers, six books and edited the Encyclopedia of Geology.

Where Does the Carbon Dioxide Really Come From?

Professor Ian Plimer could not have said it better!
"Okay, here's the bombshell. The volcanic eruption in Iceland . Since its first spewing of volcanic ash has, in just FOUR DAYS, NEGATED EVERY SINGLE EFFORT you have made in the past five years to control CO2 emissions on our planet - all of you.
Of course, you know about this evil carbon dioxide that we are trying to suppress - it's that vital chemical compound that every plant requires to live and grow and to synthesize into oxygen for us humans and all animal life.
I know....it's very disheartening to realize that all of the carbon emission savings you have accomplished while suffering the inconvenience and expense of driving Prius hybrids, buying fabric grocery bags, sitting up till midnight to finish your kids "The Green Revolution" science project, throwing out all of
your non-green cleaning supplies, using only two squares of toilet paper, putting a brick in your toilet tank reservoir, selling your SUV and speedboat, vacationing at home instead of abroad,
Nearly getting hit every day on your bicycle, replacing all of your 50 cent light bulbs with $10.00 light bulbs.....well, all of those things you have done have all gone down the tubes in just four days.
The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days - yes, FOUR DAYS - by that volcano in Iceland has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud at any one time - EVERY DAY.
I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in all its years on earth.
Yes, folks, Mt Pinatubo was active for over One year - think about it.
Of course, I shouldn't spoil this 'touchy-feely tree-hugging' moment and mention the effect of solar and cosmic activity and the well-recognized 800-year global heating and cooling cycle, which
keeps happening despite our completely insignificant efforts to affect climate change.
And I do wish I had a silver lining to this volcanic ash cloud, but the fact of the matter is that the bush fire season across the western USA and Australia this year alone will negate your efforts to reduce carbon in our world for the next two to three years. And it happens every year.
Just remember that your government just tried to impose a whopping carbon tax on you, on the basis of the bogus 'human-caused' climate-change scenario.
Hey, isn't it interesting how they don't mention 'Global Warming'
Anymore, but just 'Climate Change' - you know why?
It's because the planet has COOLED by 0.7 degrees in the past century and these global warming bull artists got caught with their pants down.
And, just keep in mind that you might yet have an Emissions Trading Scheme - that whopping new tax - imposed on you that will achieve absolutely nothing except make you poorer.
It won't stop any volcanoes from erupting, that's for sure.
But, hey, relax...... and have a nice day!"

**Little Chuchok** · 16-11-2014, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by palexxxx

The volcanic ash emitted into the Earth's atmosphere in just four days - yes, FOUR DAYS - by that volcano in Iceland has totally erased every single effort you have made to reduce the evil beast, carbon. And there are around 200 active volcanoes on the planet spewing out this crud at any one time - EVERY DAY.
I don't really want to rain on your parade too much, but I should mention that when the volcano Mt Pinatubo erupted in the Philippines in 1991, it spewed out more greenhouse gases into the atmosphere than the entire human race had emitted in all its years on earth.

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