The Libyan Crisis

**Mid** · 21-03-2011, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by OhOh

JJ's opinion is no more ridiculous than the media's. Your use of a derogatory statement only seeks to dispel comment on this forum and bully posters.

Garbage , everyone can comment and that includes my ability to ridicule those comments

**Mid** · 21-03-2011, 12:11 PM

Strike hits Gaddafi compound in Tripoli
21 Mar 2011

Building in military centre is destroyed as coalition forces target facilities used by Libyan leader across Tripoli.

A three-storey building in a military command centre used by Muammar Gaddafi has been destroyed in an air strike by coalition forces.

The Sunday-night strike was the first reported attack on the Bab al-Azizia, a sprawling compound in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, that Gaddafi has used several times as a setting for televised addresses, and which was bombed by the United States in 1986.

The regime invited journalists to visit the site of the attack early on Monday morning. Spokesman Mussa Ibrahim called it a "barbaric bombing" but said no one had been hurt. He declined to say whether Gaddafi himself was inside the compound.

Al Jazeera''s Anita McNaught, reporting from Tripoli, was not invited to the scene but reported earlier that there had been an explosion in the area of the Bab al-Azizia and that smoke was rising from the area.

snip

english.aljazeera.net

youtube.com

**StrontiumDog** · 21-03-2011, 12:16 PM

China intensifies condemnation of Libya air strikes - World - GMA News Online - Latest Philippine News

China intensifies condemnation of Libya air strikes

03/21/2011 | 12 NN

BEIJING — China's top newspaper on Monday stepped up Beijing's opposition to Western air attacks on Libya, accusing countries backing the strikes of violating international rules and risking fresh turmoil in the Middle East.

China's strongest condemnation yet of Western air assaults on the forces of Libya's leader Muammar Gaddafi appeared in the People's Daily, the mouthpiece of the ruling Communist Party, and it showed how the military conflict could become a fresh front of contention between Beijing and Washington.

The paper used barely veiled words to accuse the United States and its allies of violating international rules, although China refrained from blocking the United Nations Security Council resolution that effectively authorised the air attacks.

The paper likened the assault on Libyan sites to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, and suggested it followed a pattern of Western overreaching in other countries' affairs.

"The blood-soaked tempests that Iraq has undergone for eight years and the unspeakable suffering of its people are a mirror and a warning," said the commentary in the People's Daily.

"The military attacks on Libya are, following on the Afghan and Iraq wars, the third time that some countries have launched armed action against sovereign countries," it said in a reference to the United States and its allies.

"It should be seen that every time military means are used to address crises, that is a blow to the United Nations Charter and the rules of international relations."

The commentary appeared under the name of "Zhong Sheng," a penname that in Chinese sounds like "Voice of the Centre," suggesting that it is voicing top-level government opinion.

China's growing criticism of the Western air assaults on Libya has laid bare the quandaries facing Beijing in the Middle East.

The Middle East is an increasingly important source of oil for energy-hungry China. On the weekend, Saudi Arabia's Aramco announced its latest project proposal to supply crude to a refinery in the southwest of China, where Beijing is building an oil pipeline that slices through Myanmar.

About half of China's crude imports last year came from the Middle East and North Africa. China wants to diversify supplies, but Arab countries and Iran hold so much of global reserves that they are sure to remain major suppliers.

On Saturday, Libya's top oil official said Tripoli was considering offering oil block contracts directly to China, India and other nations it sees as friends in its month-long conflict with rebels.

At the same time, Beijing has had relatively limited diplomatic sway in the Middle East, and no major military role. Instead, it has tended to bow, sometimes begrudgingly, to Western demands, while pursuing its commercial and energy interests.

Awkward balance

China's handling of Libya reflects that awkward balance: both accommodating and criticising Western demands.

China, which holds the rotating chair of the U.N. Security Council, last week held back from blocking the resolution authorizing a no-fly zone over Libya, as well as military action to enforce that zone. It cited the calls of Arab countries for prompt U.N. action.

But Beijing immediately began voicing "serious reservations" about that resolution. The People's Daily commentary again urged other nations to do more to seek a peaceful solution to the clash between Gaddafi and rebel forces.

"People have good reason to express misgivings about the consequences that this military action may precipitate," it said.

Russia, which also abstained on the resolution, called on Britain, France and the United States at the weekend to stop the air strikes, describing them as "non-selective use of force" against non-military targets. — Reuters

**koman** · 21-03-2011, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Didn’t Obama say the mission was to protect innocent civilians in Libya?
Then why are the coalition bombing the shit outa the place after Gaddiffi offered a ceasefire?

Probably because he did not cease fire. He has "called" for all kinds of things---always has, but what Gadaffi says and what Gadaffi does are two totally different things....much like his compatriots across the whole region. Talking about the West not being "trustworthy" is pretty pointless under the circumstances.

Remember "The Godfather"....where we had the "good mafia" and the "bad mafia" families.....it's a bit like that. You need to listen to the "good mafia" for a bit.....those are the guys celebrating with Libyan flags on top of the burnt out tanks----which the French attacked when they were being operated by the "bad mafia"........it is getting clearer yet??

The choices for the west are not great, but I think we would just prefer it if the lesser of the evils won, and if we don't help out, the greater of the evils would likely win. FFS even some terrible rogue states like Denmark, Norway and Canada are providing military assets to take out Daffi....and the French of all people....they almost always vote against anything if shooting is involved.

Well done Sarko....finally an EU leader has taken the lead on something and put some money where his mouth is.... knowing of course that the US will be blamed anyway if things go badly...even if they are not taking the "lead" officially, but are in fact taking the lead....because they are very good at this sort of thing you know, and they have all that really shit hot military stuff sitting around. Nobody else has such shit hot gear and there is quite a bit of envy amongst the "allies"...but they drool when they see it in action...

**Tom Sawyer** · 21-03-2011, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

China intensifies condemnation of Libya air strikes

03/21/2011 | 12 NN

BEIJING — China's top newspaper on Monday stepped up Beijing's opposition to Western air attacks on Libya, accusing countries backing the strikes of violating international rules and risking fresh turmoil in the Middle East.

That was the whole idea I'm sure - create turmoil in the middle east - the West is moving to secure oil soures - it's a battle with China over precious resources in coming years. The real battle btwn China and America will probably occur in the Indian Ocean.. (the route from the mideast/africa to china's proxy superports in Myanmar). I still think the US is brokering a deal with the Thai elites for a super naval port of its own here in Thailand - maybe two - Eastern and Western Seaboards.

**larvidchr** · 21-03-2011, 01:07 PM

We are doing our little bit

6 Danish F16 fighter jets landed on a base in Sicily on Saturday, Sunday 4 of them went on the first 5 hour mission over Libya, and again late Sunday night they went on another mission over Libya.

**koman** · 21-03-2011, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

China intensifies condemnation of Libya air strikes

03/21/2011 | 12 NN

BEIJING — China's top newspaper on Monday stepped up Beijing's opposition to Western air attacks on Libya, accusing countries backing the strikes of violating international rules and risking fresh turmoil in the Middle East.

That was the whole idea I'm sure - create turmoil in the middle east - the West is moving to secure oil soures - it's a battle with China over precious resources in coming years. The real battle btwn China and America will probably occur in the Indian Ocean.. (the route from the mideast/africa to china's proxy superports in Myanmar). I still think the US is brokering a deal with the Thai elites for a super naval port of its own here in Thailand - maybe two - Eastern and Western Seaboards.

WE had nothing to do with creating turmoil in Libya, or anywhere else; they are doing it all by themselves and many would say quite rightly.

When WE do business with all these fucked up leaders and their regimes, we are accused of "supporting" them. When we try to intervene, we are accused of interference, crusading, bullying blah blah blah..... We tolerate them because it suits us, but when they get too troublesome, we attempt to get rid of them both in our own self interest and for the sake of the populations they govern. People talk about "the west"as if it was some kind of cohesive unit...FFS the west can't agree on anything most of the time, but every once in a while a situation presents itself where even the most bleeding heart left wing states in Europe come on side to deal with it.

It was predictable enough that China would start rumbling and posturing the minute the first shot was fired. They are like an "official opposition" who are just there to bitch at the "government" regardless of what it does. If anything does not directly promote their own self interests then they automatically oppose it but at the same time constantly complain about others who do the same thing.

Tune out China.... the largest source of hot air on the planet....not to mention the biggest thieves of intellectual property, patents, copyright and just about everything else in the world. As far as I'm concerned they have even less credibility than Daffi when he's on one of his cocaine fueled rants. A country that jails people for constructive critique of the government has no place to judge the actions of anybody. Assholes..

**StrontiumDog** · 21-03-2011, 02:33 PM

Associated Press

Mar. 21, 2011 3:04 AM ET

Pentagon: Gadhafi forces in disarray after assault

RICHARD LARDNERRICHARD LARDNER, Associated Press

Navy Vice Adm. Bill Gortney, director of the Joint Staff, gives an operational update concerning Libya, at the Pentagon in Washington, Sunday, March 20, 2011. (AP Photo/Cliff Owen)

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates speaks about Libya as he briefs reporters on board a military plane en route to St. Petersburg, Russia, Sunday, March 20, 2011. (AP Photo/Charles Dharapak, Pool)

Libyan men celebrates on a destroyed tank belonging to the forces of Moammar Gadhafi in the outskirts of Benghazi, eastern Libya, Sunday, March 20, 2011. The tanks were destroyed earlier by U.S. and allied airstrikes. (AP Photo/Anja Niedringhaus)

WASHINGTON (AP) — Pentagon officials say a U.S.-led coalition has succeeded in scattering and isolating Libyan strongman Moammar Gadhafi's forces after a weekend of punishing air attacks, and American military authorities are moving to hand control of the operation to other countries.

Navy Vice Admiral William E. Gortney says the air strikes have been "very effective," and the Pentagon believes Gadhafi's military is "under significant stress."

The assault has included B-2 stealth bombers, jet fighters, more than 120 Tomahawk cruise missiles and other high-tech weapons. Gortney says no allied planes have been lost and all pilots have returned safely.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the U.S. expects to relinquish control of the mission "in a matter of days."

**thehighlander959** · 21-03-2011, 02:59 PM

I worked in Libya offshore for an Oil Company until November 2010. For anyone who has never had the pleasure of having to go their its absolutely horrendous.
The paranoia of Libyan security at the airport in Tripoli is absolutely frightening, this not only includes westerners and asians, but is the same for Arabs from other countries. Some times it could take up to five hours to get into the country and the same to get out because every man and his dog in the countries security apparatus wants to see your Passsport and entry/departure documentation
The security personnel in Libya ie the Police , the Peoples Militia, Secret Police,the Army Police are all in place and their only allegience is to Gaddhafi and his family.

I used to fly by helicopter from Mitiga Air Force base on the outskirts of Tripoli to the FPSO I worked on it was about a 45 minute flight offshore.
There are eight Private jets based at Mitiga AFB ranging from Gulfstream 5 which is Gaddhafis personal private jet. There are also Learjets, Falcons and HS125,s which are for his families use . None of them are ever there over week-ends when the Gaddhafi family departs Libya to go and spend their money around the world.

This man has robbed Libya over 40 year in power I think he what is coming to him after the genocide of the last 40 years in power.

**StrontiumDog** · 21-03-2011, 03:19 PM

cnnbrk CNN Breaking News

Allied forces strike #Gadhafi compound; #Libyan leader's whereabouts unknown Allied forces strike Gadhafi compound; leader's whereabouts unknown - CNN.com

**Boon Mee** · 21-03-2011, 03:25 PM

“Unique Capabilities” Mean Virtually All-American War In Libya. Wait, I thought it was a multinational coalition. You know, like Iraq...

**The Bold Rodney** · 21-03-2011, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by StrontiumDog

Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the U.S. expects to relinquish control of the mission "in a matter of days."

Jolly decent of them to say that...lets wait and see shall we?

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

I still think the US is brokering a deal with the Thai elites for a super naval port of its own here in Thailand - maybe two - Eastern and Western Seaboards.

Historically America has strong trade and military ties with Thaialnd and if you're correct then I for one hope the deals done with others than the latest breed of elite here because if a deal is done... they should certainly use a very longggggggggggggg spoon!

**koman** · 21-03-2011, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

“Unique Capabilities” Mean Virtually All-American War In Libya. Wait, I thought it was a multinational coalition. You know, like Iraq...

In a dogfight its best to let the Pitbull do the actual fighting, while the Poodles and the Cocker Spaniels yap support from the sidelines....

The bones can be passed around later.

**Bower** · 21-03-2011, 03:59 PM

How long will it before there is a renewed flood of African and Arab asylum seekers into Europe ?
Lybia was the launch pad for thousands monthly, Gaddafi had held them up as part of his relationship with the EU.

**The Bold Rodney** · 21-03-2011, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Bower

How long will it before there is a renewed flood of African and Arab asylum seekers into Europe ?

Not that long and it may just be the "straw that breaks the camels back" not that the corporate magnates or politicians give a shit, they'll be soaking up the sun far away from the gloom and problems in the UK.

**superman** · 21-03-2011, 04:14 PM

If the Arab League sanctioned the no fly zone then why ain't the wankers doing the flying ?

**The Bold Rodney** · 21-03-2011, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by superman

If the Arab League sanctioned the no fly zone then why ain't the wankers doing the flying ?

Have you ever heard of a pilot with a fence stuck up his arse?

They want it all ways, get rid of a pain in the arse dictator but don't admit he's been a dictator, crook and murderer for 40+ years because he's alson an arab brother. Two faced, greedy, lying, deceitful, double dealing, hypocrytical c*nts although saying that the have their good points...I just can't think of any!

**Tom Sawyer** · 21-03-2011, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by koman

WE had nothing to do with creating turmoil in Libya, or anywhere else; they are doing it all by themselves

And the world is such a simple and righteous place - especially in the most lucrative geo-politically sensitive parts - in' it Koman?

**StrontiumDog** · 21-03-2011, 05:08 PM

Latest...changes tone again...

BreakingNews Breaking News

Arab League's Moussa: Calls for 'protection of civilians' in Libya while saying organization has 'no conflict ' with UN Libya resolution

**koman** · 21-03-2011, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Originally Posted by koman

WE had nothing to do with creating turmoil in Libya, or anywhere else; they are doing it all by themselves

And the world is such a simple and righteous place - especially in the most lucrative geo-politically sensitive parts - in' it Koman?

No it's not, and I never suggested that it was, but automatically blaming "the west" for every upheaval, backlash or rebellion against the likes of Gadaffi is just nonsense. Has "the west" also created the "turmoil" in Bahrain and Yemen . Did "the west" cause the movement in S. Africa that changed their system of government? NO it's the people who live in these places getting pissed off with their various thugs and dictators......and eventually rising up to get rid of them, and with the hopes of establishing a more just society.

I think in fact that it may be in part the prospect of "the west" actually stepping in and doing something to help their cause that may motivate them to take on their "leaders" Unfortunately WE (the terrible west) can only put out so many fires at the same time.....
...and yes we nasty westerners look out for our own interests, why not...everybody else does.....especially people like the current rulers of Libya, Bahrain, Yemen etc etc. Would we think more of our own governments if they did not look out for our national interests? We sure hear lots of bitching when we think they have failed to do so.

**Rural Surin** · 21-03-2011, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by koman

Originally Posted by Tom Sawyer

Originally Posted by koman

WE had nothing to do with creating turmoil in Libya, or anywhere else; they are doing it all by themselves

And the world is such a simple and righteous place - especially in the most lucrative geo-politically sensitive parts - in' it Koman?

No it's not, and I never suggested that it was, but automatically blaming "the west" for every upheaval, backlash or rebellion against the likes of Gadaffi is just nonsense. Has "the west" also created the "turmoil" in Bahrain and Yemen . Did "the west" cause the movement in S. Africa that changed their system of government? NO it's the people who live in these places getting pissed off with their various thugs and dictators......and eventually rising up to get rid of them, and with the hopes of establishing a more just society.

I think in fact that it may be in part the prospect of "the west" actually stepping in and doing something to help their cause that may motivate them to take on their "leaders" Unfortunately WE (the terrible west) can only put out so many fires at the same time.....
...and yes we nasty westerners look out for our own interests, why not...everybody else does.....especially people like the current rulers of Libya, Bahrain, Yemen etc etc. Would we think more of our own governments if they did not look out for our national interests? We sure hear lots of bitching when we think they have failed to do so.

Wow! Koman, like many, you've been sold a bill of goods. False goodness and light.

**superman** · 21-03-2011, 07:17 PM

The UN is protecting the rebels and yet they don't have any knowledge as to who, when it's all over, they will turn to. They could in fact look to Iran. That would leave egg on some peoples faces wouldn't it ?

**OhOh** · 21-03-2011, 07:29 PM

The Libyan Government has offered the UN what they wanted, a ceasefire twice. On both occasions the US, UK and France have declared that the ceasefire was broken by the Libyan Government.

This, the "crusaders" have claimed, allows them to continue the Immoral, illegal war.

The resolution voted uopn by the UNSC includes the following:

UN security council resolution 1973 (2011) on Libya

"Panel of experts

24. Requests the Secretary-General to create for an initial period of one year, in consultation with the Committee, a group of up to eight experts ("Panel of Experts"), under the direction of the Committee to carry out the following tasks:

(a) Assist the Committee in carrying out its mandate as specified in paragraph 24 of resolution 1970 (2011) and this resolution;

(b) Gather, examine and analyse information from States, relevant United Nations bodies, regional organisations and other interested parties regarding the implementation of the measures decided in resolution 1970 (2011) and this resolution, in particular incidents of non-compliance;

(c) Make recommendations on actions the Council, or the Committee or State, may consider to improve implementation of the relevant measures;

(d) Provide to the Council an interim report on its work no later than 90 days after the Panel's appointment, and a final report to the Council no later than 30 days prior to the termination of its mandate with its findings and recommendations;

25. Urges all States, relevant United Nations bodies and other interested parties, to cooperate fully with the Committee and the Panel of Experts, in particular by supplying any information at their disposal on the implementation of the measures decided in resolution 1970 (2011) and this resolution, in particular incidents of non-compliance;

26. Decides that the mandate of the Committee as set out in paragraph 24 of resolution 1970 (2011) shall also apply to the measures decided in this resolution;

27. Decides that all States, including the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, shall take the necessary measures to ensure that no claim shall lie at the instance of the Libyan authorities, or of any person or body in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, or of any person claiming through or for the benefit of any such person or body, in connection with any contract or other transaction where its performance was affected by reason of the measures taken by the Security Council in resolution 1970 (2011), this resolution and related resolutions;

28. Reaffirms its intention to keep the actions of the Libyan authorities under continuous review and underlines its readiness to review at any time the measures imposed by this resolution and resolution 1970 (2011), including by strengthening, suspending or lifting those measures, as appropriate, based on compliance by the Libyan authorities with this resolution and resolution 1970 (2011)
."

Clause 24 requests a "Panel of Experts" to be created.

Who is on this panel?

Have they met?

Have they published and conclusions if they have met?

Clause 28 allows this "Panel of Experts" to " by strengthening, suspending or lifting those measures, as appropriate, based on compliance by the Libyan authorities with this resolution and resolution 1970"

It is not up to the "crusader" forces to make this decision. They are waging an illegal war murdering civilians.

The resolution calls for all "members", in this instance the members are the members of the UN. It also call for all members not adhering to the resolution are to be brought to the ICC.

FarangRed · 21-03-2011, 07:34 PM

I think it's about time we had a revolution or what ever you wanna call it in England, who would be the rebels?

**OhOh** · 21-03-2011, 07:35 PM

The Arab League, the Russians, The Chinese, the Lebanese and the African Union are all voicing they dismay at the illegal, US led, war on Libya.

Should the UNSC be recalled or the panel of experts begin to act or let the illegal war continue?

Thread: The Libyan Crisis

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