Thread: torture

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Ahh...Grasshopper - but these are not POW's but captured enemy combatents. Big difference. These assholes are terrorists.

And what exactly did they do that makes them so bad? Fight against an occupying force?

I guess you're right...the law recently signed by Bush that undermines everyone's freedoms worldwide makes it an act of terrorism for anyone to fight against American soldiers...even if the Americans are the aggressor.

Fucking unbelievable.

isn't this a happy world we are all living in ?

Originally Posted by Butterfly

isn't this a happy world we are all living in ?

Damn!
You've mellowed too much!
Gotta get Membrane in here to wind you up some for old times sake.

Originally Posted by Storekeeper

Don't forget I'm a dumb ass, redneck, trailer trash carreer military man

It's ok, we just love you the way you are. Don't change a bit.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

You've mellowed too much!

no, I just live in the LoS

You will feel the same when you move in here. Soon enough you will become a peace loving terrorist sympathizer

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

You've mellowed too much!

no, I just live in the LoS

You will feel the same when you move in here. Soon enough you will become a peace loving terrorist sympathizer

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

Ahh...Grasshopper - but these are not POW's but captured enemy combatents. Big difference. These assholes are terrorists.

That is only a word game.
US has declared that it is on war and consequently those captured combatents are POW's.

(Article 5): "Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act..." is a prisoner of war "...such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal."

The trio Bush, Cheney and Rice is not a tribunal

Don't you understand? By calling them 'unlawful combatants' it allows the Bush-Cheny cabal to try them in secret with no rights (plus the recent law opted out of the GC for this purpose)...whether or not the person actually did anything is irrelevant.

It's nice that we take our treaty obligations so seriously.

So, Saddam and the Taliban invited us in?

I dont think so.

no but the UN did, right ?

I dont think so.

So, let me get this straight: if neither Saddam nor the Taliban invited us in, then, how is it that someone else supposedly invited us in?

Surasak, you've got to learn the difference between invite and invade

Aw, come on. According to our fine upstanding 'conservatives' it was the Iraqi and Afghan goverments who invited us in.

I can't understand how that was possible...until someone else overthrew the government.

Oh, gosh, who could have done that?

Since the US is a model democracy with their 2-party system, and a nation of freedom-lovers with an enabler, decisionmaker and altruistic Christian compassionizer at the steering wheel, they do what they can to assist others on the planet whenever someone asks them for help.

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

You've mellowed too much!

no, I just live in the LoS

You will feel the same when you move in here. Soon enough you will become a peace loving terrorist sympathizer

In that case I need to chill out and bide my time because 6 years in LoS is clearly not enough for everybody, though what it has done is open my eyes in particular regard to Islamic terror and other issues. Admittedly, they have been years filled with the stench of Islamic atrocities, including events that in the mind of any decent person should warrant extreme torture with an outside chance of prevention, though I can only hope I would have in any case seen the scourge for what it is, and it's to each his own whether he wishes to support, appease or overcome it.

And to think some 30 years ago my best buddies in the whole world lived in Jeddha, Cairo, Jericho and Ramalla, 20 years ago I was offered the worldly benefits one only dreams of in exchange for conversion of faith, 10 - 15 years ago I was twice approached by serious lefty (UK) organisations with a view to joining their ranks, and was subsequently subjected to several early morning unpleasantries resulting in six or seven arrests and two charges relating to the publishing of texts that would make a certain mod and his sidekick seem as though they were weaned on the far right, though before they get off in the excitement it should be mentioned that on the first occasion it took the jury less than an hour to exonerate me, and on the second, the CPS literally slammed a sheaf of papers onto his desk when it cleared me within 20 minutes.

While our current crop of leaders are gutless, more concerned with votes than innocent lives, and are bound by pc niceties and democratic values, importantly, they are and will continue to be elected by us, unless or until we succumb to the radical elements of Islam. Though we probably need to suffer the humiliation of far greater atrocities than 911 before waking from our collective sleepwalk, some only to yawn, fwiw I believe time and events will compel us to seek out more focussed leaders, with hopefully a core that's prepared to set aside democratic weaknesses to confront the scourge head on and on their own terms; if the means include torture then let it be if the bottom line, seen through the smoke and mirrors, can save the next 3,000 or 300,000 lives.

Fire away!

Would you torture one innocent person to save 10? Would you forfeit your life to save 5?

There have been many cases recently where properly convicted felons were released because new methods of testing proved their innocence (DNA). What kind of apology do you give to a person wrongfully imprisoned, let alone, wrongfully tortured? What kinds of safeguards do you allow to ensure no innocent person is wrongfully tortured?

So, do you live in the south of Thailand, keda?

I don't think there is much "Islamic terrorism" in Isaan to open one's eyes, is there?

Last time I was in Nong Khai I was attacked and beaten by one of the countless Muslim mobs that roam all of Thailand. My home was burned, my crops destroyed, my car stolen.

Precisely the thread I opened a while back, which died rapidly, possibly due to the question being flogged to death on other threads, or not...would you commit an immoral act for a moral purpose?

Originally Posted by keda

Precisely the thread I opened a while back, which died rapidly, possibly due to the question being flogged to death on other threads, or not...would you commit an immoral act for a moral purpose?

I do not believe committing an immoral act makes a moral purpose, uh, moral any longer. I believe ultimately individual rights matter more than collective rights.

Whether it's one person or a thousand. Morality should not be a waivering concept.

If a person would kill another person for $1 million then why won't the same person do it for $10 (although some actually would I'm sure).