Thread: What makes terrorists?

[quote=Sir Burr;

The only religious based terrorism I can see is in Iraq were the Sunnis and Shias are doing each other harm. This is more about power and which clan should have it.[/quote

Sunnis and Shias never fight about religious differences. Wow, teacher, you are not very well informed. What about the Kurds?

The suicide bombings in Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan against the West have nothing to do with religion.

I don't agree. They do have to do with land dispute, but, they also have to do with religion. Go ask any resident who gave him the right to live on that land in Israel.

Maybe not religion in Iraq and Afghanistan-We are there to assist people, not invade. Of course the bad guys see it as an invasion and occupations, etc.

So do silly liberals.

Hang on, if it wasn't invasion and occupation, what does your "dictionary" call it?

Done for noble reasons, - perhaps, depending on your point of view, but let's not deny the facts here.

Originally Posted by ceburat

Maybe not religion in Iraq and Afghanistan-We are there to assist people, not invade. Of course the bad guys see it as an invasion and occupations, etc.

So do silly liberals.

that's a load of old poop.
explain your position.

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

The only religious based terrorism I can see is in Iraq were the Sunnis and Shias are doing each other harm. This is more about power and which clan should have it.

Spot on Sir burr spot on mate. If you take a look at Iraq's populatuion 80 to 85% are Shia muslims and the Sunnis are a minority. The Sunnis have ruled Iraq for decades and they did many things that we cannot call just. Now the Sunnis want the same position they had during Saddam's rule and the Shia population disagree with it. Most of the Sunnis,believe me on this one, are being funded by the fokwit Saudis to stirr shit up.

Thats what going on in Iraq and I know this because I had a very detailed discussion with one of the Iraqi teachers in my UNI and he was the onew who told me all this and he is a Sunni.

Originally Posted by stroller

Hang on, if it wasn't invasion and occupation, what does your "dictionary" call it?

Done for noble reasons, - perhaps, depending on your point of view, but let's not deny the facts here.

Yes, done for noble reasons. My thinking on occupation is if the army planned on staying and owning the country. The US does not want to stay.

Again in my way of thinking: two different invasions. 1. Invasion to conquer and occupy, not good, but what most of the world says the US did or is doing. 2nd Invasion to help the people, in one way or the other, which is what the US did.

Originally Posted by ChiangMai noon

Originally Posted by ceburat

Maybe not religion in Iraq and Afghanistan-We are there to assist people, not invade. Of course the bad guys see it as an invasion and occupations, etc.

So do silly liberals.

that's a load of old poop.
explain your position.

Please see post #180 from me to Stroller

Originally Posted by ceburat

2nd Invasion to help the people, in one way or the other, which is what the US did.

Did the Iraq people ask US to come and help ?

Originally Posted by stroller

what does your "dictionary" call it?

His dictionary is fucked up, don't bother. He probably get his definitions from the Bible

Originally Posted by ceburat

We are there to assist people, not invade

Wrong, but you knew that already.

Originally Posted by ceburat

Yes, done for noble reasons

There is nothing noble about the Iraq invasion. It was done against UN resolutions without giving peace a chance, and it was done against the will of the Iraqis and the rest of the world. Get your facts straight.

Originally Posted by ceburat

The US does not want to stay.

Wrong, and guess what ? you are not there at the WH behind closed doors discussing long term plans with Bush and Cheney. It's no secret that Iraq is seen as a strategic location and since the US was kicked out of SA, the US is there to stay for quite a while. You are either very much misinformed (not a surprise for a religious zealot) or totally dishonnest. I hope it's the former, then you are excused.

Originally Posted by ceburat

Originally Posted by Macha;[/quote

Doubtless you're an ignorant person.

Only in your opinion.

You close you eyes when Israelies bomb the hell out of innocent kids, women and elderly.

Israelies bombed the hell out of Lebanon while the cowards used the women and children for protection. It is not the fault of Israel that Herzbolla fought like to cowards they are.

You ignore the bombs that kills thousands by Tamil Tigers. Fuck you even forgot the IRA bombings.

I don't follow all of the news so I admit that I don't know about the Tamil Tigers. I quit trying to keep up with the IRA years ago. It seemed like there was no end to their waring. I also don't keep up with much British news--I have no reason to. I live on the other side of the lake.

Why are Muslims killing each other? Ever thought about it? Yes I have. They are competely violent and ignorant. For sure it's not someone else's fault.

"Ignorant" is the word that would describe you best.

Thank you Macha

Does giving the bad finger proves your point?

If it does then I would like to give five of them to you Ceburat.

Originally Posted by Mhz

Originally Posted by ceburat

Originally Posted by Macha;[/quote

Doubtless you're an ignorant person.

Only in your opinion.

You close you eyes when Israelies bomb the hell out of innocent kids, women and elderly.

Israelies bombed the hell out of Lebanon while the cowards used the women and children for protection. It is not the fault of Israel that Herzbolla fought like to cowards they are.

You ignore the bombs that kills thousands by Tamil Tigers. Fuck you even forgot the IRA bombings.

I don't follow all of the news so I admit that I don't know about the Tamil Tigers. I quit trying to keep up with the IRA years ago. It seemed like there was no end to their waring. I also don't keep up with much British news--I have no reason to. I live on the other side of the lake.

Why are Muslims killing each other? Ever thought about it? Yes I have. They are competely violent and ignorant. For sure it's not someone else's fault.

"Ignorant" is the word that would describe you best.

Thank you Macha

Does giving the bad finger proves your point?

If it does then I would like to give five of them to you Ceburat.

Good example of what's wrong between Islam and the rest of the world.

You can call me ignorant, and that's ok, but, if I give you a fingure you get up set.

Works both ways

You know Ceburat, I thought you were a sensible guy but I have to admit that you are no different from all those fart-knockers that one encounters on many dicussion forums.

Originally Posted by Mhz

You know Ceburat, I thought you were a sensible guy but I have to admit that you are no different from all those fart-knockers that one encounters on many dicussion forums.

What is it Mhz? Every one must agree with you in every detail to be on the good guy list. Sorry to inform you - different strokes for different folks.

ceburat, sorry to say, but for a peace-loving bible-loving christian, you seem a bit angry. You support an evil cause (a forced invasion) and you call it noble, and then you proceed to support state-terrorism while condemning Islam terrorism.

911 was no fucking big deal. The US has sponsored hundreds of 911 in other countries in the last 50 years, and yet those countries have survived. What makes you think that killing Muslism is the only way out ? how about those Christian values of forgiveness ? Only the stupid Israelis would seek for revenge but they are a bunch of nasty fuckers anyway.

^ your so full of shit your eyes are brown !!!! ---- your also a racist

^ KID, showing your ignorance again, since when Israelis became a race or even a religion ? If I hate Americans or British or the French, does this make me a racist ? please explain

Originally Posted by Butterfly

ceburat, sorry to say, but for a peace-loving bible-loving christian, you seem a bit angry. You support an evil cause (a forced invasion) and you call it noble, and then you proceed to support state-terrorism while condemning Islam terrorism.

911 was no fucking big deal. The US has sponsored hundreds of 911 in other countries in the last 50 years, and yet those countries have survived. What makes you think that killing Muslism is the only way out ? how about those Christian values of forgiveness ? Only the stupid Israelis would seek for revenge but they are a bunch of nasty fuckers anyway.

No, I am not angry.

Going into Irak was a noble move. The US is not envolved in state-terrorism except in the minds of mis-guided people.

911 was mass murder of innocent people. Who flew the planes? What religion were they? What organization were they representing?

Why do you and others talk down Israelis. They are good people who would be peachfull if people would leave them alone.

The bottom line is this. I am an american fighting man. I am prepared to give my life in the defense of my country, etc, etc, etc. I might add as was said before by a better man than me, I regret that I have but one life to give for my country. I love America. I voted for GWB and support him 100 percent. And, I might add again, all of the above goes without killing innocent women and children.

So in your opinion 911 was no fucking big deal??? And you want to know why civilized people hate terrorist, Islam, etc. Your attitude and the attitude of others like you - 911 was no fucking big deal is just the shit in your brain that keepts the rest of the world at odd with people like you. It is why they want to fight. Because that 911 attitude is so stupid, disgusting and evil.

"Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them.
There is almost no kind of outrage-----torture, imprisonment without trial, assassination, the
bombing of civilians-----which does not change its moral color when it is committed by 'our'
side. . The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he
has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."
--George Orwell

Originally Posted by stroller

"Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them.

There is almost no kind of outragetorture, imprisonment without trial, assassination, the

bombing of civilianswhich does not change its moral color when it is committed by 'our'
side. . The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, he
has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them."
--George Orwell

The above sounds like anti-American nonesense to me. Seems to me I get that thought from many of your posts. Just my opinion.

"America" isn't even mentioned in the quote.

It's about a certain 'nationalist' attitude, of which your comments make a good example.

[quote=ceburat;196019]

Originally Posted by Butterfly

How do you figure that by killing their women and children I would be protecting my country? Is this why you think being a terrorist is ok. You kill women and children to protect your country? to win wars? to prove a point? Man you are one sick person.

Reading this I would have to say we should put GWB on trial for crimes against humanity. He must be a terrorist.
Isn't that why they went to war to save their own country.
What are the yanks doing in Iraq and why are they there?

Originally Posted by Mr Earl

Legitimate question macha. Here's a legitimate answer:

Islamic terrorists routinely kidnap the most vulnerable civilians and hold them hostage. Hamas and Hizbullah, like Arafat’s PLO, hold their own people hostage as well, and hide both themselves and their weapons among Muslim civilians.

For years, Hizbullah held the village of Kana hostage. When Israel finally fought back against Hizbullah’s shelling of Israeli civilians, the Jewish state reaped a whirlwind of condemnation. Israel mourned these civilian deaths even as many Islamists celebrated these deaths as a great propaganda victory.

Just as Hizbullah hid behind women and children in Kana, using them as human shields, so too does Muslim culture “honor-murder” its own women and girls.

Since we are now one world connected by cell phones, the Internet, and satellite television programs – as well as by Muslim immigration to the West, similar behavior can and has erupted against American civilians, both at home and abroad. In the recent past, Muslim Islamists have shot and killed Jewish-American males – e.g. Leon Klinghoffer (1985), Rabbi Meir Kahane (1990), Ari Halberstam (1994), Daniel Pearl (2002) and Nicholas Berg (2004).

In 1968, Sirhan Sirhan, a Palestinian, murdered Senator Robert Kennedy because Kennedy’s pro-Israel stand enraged him.

We may now have reached a turning point of sorts. On July 28, 30-year-old Naveed Afsal Haq, a supposedly lone and mentally ill Muslim-American of Pakistani origin (he had been diagnosed as bipolar and was on lithium and depacote), took a 13 year-old American girl hostage in order to gain entry to the Jewish Federation Building in Seattle.

(We must note that many mentally ill people are functioning, non-violent members of society and that many criminals, including dictators, have never been psychiatrically diagnosed or denigrated.)

Haq declared that he was “angry with Israel” and announced that it was a “hostage” situation. He began shooting women, including one who was pregnant. Five Jewish- and Christian-American women were wounded and one, 58-year-old Pam Waechter, was murdered. Haq shot several of the women in the abdomen.

Perhaps Haq’s crime is not only the product of his bipolar mental illness. It may also reflect an Islamic culture that denigrates women in general and a jihadist culture that denigrates all life, including Muslim life, and which seeks to oppress and destroy all living beings. For example, many Islamic suicide killers will purposely target pregnant women or women with small children before they blow themselves up.

Further, both in the past and in general, Jews have been seen as “female” or “feminine” because they were not allowed to bear arms and preferred a non-violent resolution of conflict for both ethical and practical reasons.

Islamic culture is a shame-and-honor-culture. What this means is that child socialization involves shaming and humiliation. Many adults reared this way are especially sensitive to slights that tend to be experienced as extremely humiliating.

Haq has been described as short (he is 5 ‘4 and wore elevator soles). He has also been described as bald, socially inept, a loner, and, despite a degree in engineering, unemployed. The ideologies of extreme hatred often attract highly dysfunctional followers, some of whom are capable of violence.

Haq’s crime took place on a Friday – a day when devout Muslims often hear sermons excoriating Israel, Jews, and America. In Israel, many Jews have been stabbed by Muslims on a Friday. In our opinion, however, this may not have been the case here. Haq had been charged with “lewd conduct” for having exposed himself in a public place. His humiliation was about to escalate. He snapped – but in a particular kind of way.

Like the 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta, who wanted no pregnant women to approach his imagined corpse, Haq apparently had no interest (or ability) to relate to women. People refuse to understand that the “occupation” that jihadists rant about is really how they themselves have been “occupied” by childhood shaming and punishing techniques. When such cruelty turns them crazy or when they are psychologically vulnerable, they may act out in the only socially approved ways allowed, namely, they first scapegoat the intimate enemy which is female and then the outsider enemy: Jews, Israelis, Zionists, and Americans.

Haq’s act is chillingly reminiscent of the Montreal Massacre that took place on December 6, 1989. Marc Lepine entered the engineering school at the University of Montreal and killed fourteen women while wounding fifteen others. Lepine, who had been rejected by both the Canadian Army and the engineering school at the University of Montreal, said in his suicide note that he was after the “feminist viragos” who had ruined his life.

The Canadian police saw this as an isolated act of a madman (as American police had once viewed Ted Bundy’s bloody trail of femicide). What the Canadian police failed to understand was the importance of certain biographical and childhood factors. For example, Lepine was born Gamile Rodrigue Gharbi to an Algerian Muslim father and a French-Canadian mother who had formerly been a nun. Lepine’s father, Liess Gharbi, physically and psychologically brutalized both his son and his wife. He probably taught his son that women are chattel – property – who deserve to be beaten even when they are obedient and perhaps murdered when they are not.

What is important to note is that Gharbi/Lepine blamed women for the considerable crimes of his father, whose culture was Islamic and Algerian.

As Dr. Chesler recounts in her book, The Death of Feminism, in 2001 an angry mob of 300 Algerian men conducted a three-day pogrom against Algerian women in which they tortured, stabbed, mutilated, gang-raped, buried alive and murdered women in Hassi Messaoud.

In Dr. Chesler’s 1978 book, “About Men,” she posited that the paternal abandonment of, and cruelty toward, sons may be a crucial component in mother- and woman-hating. Dr. Nancy Kobrin, in her forthcoming book The Sheik’s New Clothes: The Naked Truth About Islamic Suicide Terrorism, suggests that the absolute degradation of Arab and Muslim women by a shame- and honor-society means that sons must perpetually rid themselves of the “contamination” that contact with women represents; and that sons must psychologically abandon their mothers even as they experience abandonment by their mothers. Many such sons are trained to mistrust, police, routinely batter, and sometimes even murder their female relatives.

Dr. Kobrin believes that such psychological dynamics may play a crucial role in contemporary Islamic terrorism.

While girl- and woman-battering and honor murders are increasingly normalized in Islamic culture, the enemy-outsider, who must also be scapegoated, has been increasingly eroticized. Israel-hatred and Jew-hatred have achieved a level of political-erotic obsession among jihadists that may even surpass that of the Nazi era. Israel is no longer “feminine” and for some, this is its great, existential crime. Israel refuses to absorb the hatred and violence or to forever turn the other cheek.

Individual Jewish women, though, may present a particularly tempting target to mentally ill and violent Muslims in a jihadic era. The “Jewess” is the most denigrated female in Islamic ideology. Zaynab bint Al-Harith, the Khaybar “Jewess,” is the woman who was falsely accused of having poisoned the prophet Muhammed after having witnessed the beheading of her entire male community in the Battle of Khaybar. Not coincidentally, Hizbullah currently calls its missiles “Khaybar.” We have also been told that a new Iranian television station is known as “Khaybar.”

Israeli civilians are at the greatest risk as they endure a slow Holocaust-like bleed of civilians. American civilians, both here and abroad, including in Europe, are also at great risk. All those who currently work for Jewish organizations in America are perhaps especially vulnerable to this eroticized Jew-hatred that permeates the very air we breathe.

We hope that Americans, both male and female, especially those who believe their politically correct and pro-jihadic views will protect them from jihadic violence, will now begin to wrestle with the tragedy in Seattle. We hope they do not blame Israel for what Haq did. His crime is a complicated mix of mental illness, woman-hatred, and Jew- and Israel-hatred. Perhaps all the propaganda against Israel and the Jews propelled Haq, a lost soul, to cling to the illusion that his criminal action could redeem his lost honor.

A Jewish woman who knew the murdered Pam Waechter told us that Waechter, who was born a Lutheran and converted to Judaism, “was a better Jew than I or most of us could ever be.” Jewish tradition believes that messianic redemption will enter the world through the good deeds of women converts to Judaism, beginning with Ruth, the ancestor of King David. Let us learn the necessary lessons about redemption from Pam Waechter’s martyrdom.

linky

Very good post! Like I said in an earlier post, the trouble/answer with islam is the approach towards women. If women get more rights the less radical muslims you will have.

Originally Posted by stroller

"America" isn't even mentioned in the quote.

It's about a certain 'nationalist' attitude, of which your comments make a good example.

I am nationalistic, however, I am not nationalisticly stupid.

Directly you are right "America" is not memtioned in the above quote and I did not say it was.

I did state that reading many of your previous posts I got the thought that you were anti-american. Go back and read some of your posts here and on other threads.

[quote=ceburat;195869Have you ever see a white man from the west walk into a Muslim Business place and blow himself up killing many women and children. Only Islamics do that.

[/quote]

No I haven't, yet I have read and heard and seen 'smart' bombs rip into an apartment block and kill women, children, the elderly. These were ordered by 'white' men.

Originally Posted by Mhz

Originally Posted by HermantheGerman

like always very one sided. They are bad we are good and blaaa blaa blaa.

Okay lets say the palestinians are all wrong. Israelis afre all good.

Who stole the land??

Mhz, we are turning in circles again and the Palestian problem is not being solved. But does any muslim REALY care about this issue? Why are you so upset about this problem? You are a paki are'nt you? Have you donated any money to the relief of the palestian problem?
Your post gives the reader a missguided understanding of those poor soul who blow themselfs up in bits and pieces.
Your post is missing ONE key issue! Your post should have included one more thought! Maybe you can then answer your questions by yourself.

Why are suicide bombers (almost 99%) always muslim?
Why are European jails (Germany, France, England), overfilled with muslim inmates? (statistics in ration with the muslim population).
Why will democracy never work in a muslim country?
Why are you so agressive and have insulted and threadend me ?(maybe other members too)
If you can answer these questions truthfully....then you have the answer to your post!

Now a thought for all you religious freaks (kerux...do your best) out there. In the bible OT it says that "the other brother (meaning the muslims) will be a wild donkey bringing only bad thing to this world". Is the Koran maybe a legitimate book for some people; meaning they need a STRONG guided hand? Is it maybe better, for example in muslim countries that the women wear a veal or burka, for women protection?