10,000 Protest Mosque at Ground Zero

**zygote1** · 15-06-2010, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by slackula

Originally Posted by zygote1

Are you serious? Please provide an example. I'll go first. It is illegal to build a church in Saudi Arabia. There are no churches in the land of the House of Saud. Ok, your turn.

You said "most muslim countries", Saudi Arabia is one muslim country, (and coincidentally the one most closely allied with the USA). "One" does not equal "most", it is one. The Vatican is in talks with the house of Saud to build a church in Saudi FWIW.

Iran has something like 500 churches I think, and I have visited churches in Jordan, Turkey, Oman and Qatar.

Your turn.

Iran has churches but how many are of recent construction? How many of those 500 are in poor condition? True or false, under Sharia law the building of churches is prohibited. Please comment on the laws that apply in countries which describe themselves as "muslim". Turkey and Bosnia are excluded from the discussion as they have secular constitutions.

I draw your attention to the classification of Christians as zimmis under Islamic law and as such cannot build new churches. They are allowed to renovate old churches provided there is no expansion or new construction. The definition of an old church is one that was present prior to the establishment of the Caliphate. Under the applicable laws of the Koran, a muslim is allowed to remove the houses of worship of other religions since those religions are for the infidels and deny the supremacy of the prophet. I'd like to see a Christian try that in the EU or North America. Some countries claim they will allow the building of new churches. I dare you to try and build one in Afghanistan, Bangladesh or Pakistan. Try and get a building permit for one in a more liberal country like Morocco and you will wait years and years and years. How about Syria? Kuwait? Gaza? Hahaha that's a good one. What do you think would have happened if the freedom flotilla had it brought cement for the building of a church? The Hamas supporters would have decapitated them. When was the last church built in Syria? How about Yemen? Sudan?

Muslims have so much respect for other religions that they desecrated most of the jewish synagogues subsequent to the forced expulsions and deportations of the population. Despite the lip service given to respect for Christians, try and survive as a pastor in some of these muslim countries. I draw your attention to the plight of Christian churches on Java, many of which were forced to close due to vandalism and threats. Look at the destruction of Hindu temples in Malaysia. Ask the coptics what it is like to live under the threats in Egypt. Can the Bahais worship in freedom in Iran? In the muslim parts of Nigeria, the building of new churches is forbidden. Christians in the muslim world are persecuted and harassed. That is the reality.

**FailSafe** · 15-06-2010, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by mr Fred

The protesters want to stop the mosque. A clear breach of the constitution.
It's a paradox because you are wanting the freedom to restrict freedom.

You just don't get it- the legality/constitutionality of something is not an issue as far as protests go.

How is not wanting a mosque in the area a 'clear breach of the Constitution'? If the government steps in and says the mosque can't be built, that would be a breach- in the United States, we have the right to say we don't like something even it's done legally.

Saying that people couldn't protest would actually be a breach of the Constitution- or would you rather restrict free speech? Should the American citizens who are against the US government's actions in Iraq (which- morality aside- are perfectly legal) not voice their opinions just because those actions are constitutionally legal?

I'm sorry- I see the point you are trying to make, but you are showing a basic misunderstanding of Constitutional law.

**FailSafe** · 15-06-2010, 09:52 AM

^^^

Don't forget the French did own a major portion of (what is currently) the US at one point- it was Jefferson's prescient move of setting up the 'Louisana Purchase' that effectively doubled the size of the country in 1803.

But yes, your point was pretty obvious.

**mr Fred** · 15-06-2010, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

Originally Posted by mr Fred

The protesters want to stop the mosque. A clear breach of the constitution.
It's a paradox because you are wanting the freedom to restrict freedom.

You just don't get it- the legality/constitutionality of something is not an issue as far as protests go..

So you are protesting against Muslims.

This mosque is a further provocation against the U.S. This mosque is a passive aggressive act stealthily furthering jihad against the infidels of the United States of America.

It is what this mosque represents is why thousands of Americans took to the streets last Sunday. Americans have had enough. No more, enough is enough. No more with the advancing of the religion of jihad. No mosque! No mosque!

It looks a lot like a bunch of racist or otherwise bigoted fuckpig idiots with an agenda against ALL Muslims to me.
Of course ALL Americans are evil sadistic bastards because a few few prison guards were nasty to prisoners in Iraq. Perhaps all filthy Yank pigs can be blamed because people from the same country did something wrong.

Sorry fool but daft stereotypes and lumping all of a group together simply don't work.
I'll be happy to agree the only positive thing that came out of 9/11 was the bastards who did it went to hell but I won't allow ALL Muslims to be blamed for the actions of a few utter cunts.
To do that you must also blame me and I would happily have killed these bastards with my bare hands had I been in a position to do so before they murdered so many.

**larvidchr** · 15-06-2010, 05:26 PM

OK Fred, so it is nice normal peaceful Muslims who just want a place of worship, fine I'll buy that, but then explain to me why they want to take the confrontational line on this issue, They are on a charm offensive trying to show that not all Muslims are bad (naturally) ect. so why insist on placing that Mosque in a place they knew beforehand would be so controversial ?

And why name it the Cordoba centre/project, when many knows that is synonym with the Mosque the Muslims built in Cordoba, in celebration of the first victories over the infidels in Spain ?

Even you I'm sure wont refute that Muslims do have negative public relations issues in the Western World, and this thing just do not look so smart and well thought out as it could have been. I cant help speculating if it is a case off some with a more aggressive Islamic agenda, than the nice peaceful Muslims, having had quite a lot of influence on this project.

**FailSafe** · 15-06-2010, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by mr Fred

It looks a lot like a bunch of racist or otherwise bigoted fuckpig idiots with an agenda against ALL Muslims to me.
Of course ALL Americans are evil sadistic bastards because a few few prison guards were nasty to prisoners in Iraq. Perhaps all filthy Yank pigs can be blamed because people from the same country did something wrong.

Sorry fool but daft stereotypes and lumping all of a group together simply don't work.
I'll be happy to agree the only positive thing that came out of 9/11 was the bastards who did it went to hell but I won't allow ALL Muslims to be blamed for the actions of a few utter cunts.
To do that you must also blame me and I would happily have killed these bastards with my bare hands had I been in a position to do so before they murdered so many.

Lovely rant, but it does nothing to support your previous argument re: the Constitution, which is what my posts were concerned with.

Frankly, I could give a shit if you're a Muslim (as long as you are without a radical bent that would like to see me dead and upon which you would act)- we were talking about constitutionality (and I'm sorry, but that's a subject I'm well-versed in and you'd better bring your 'A' game if you're going to argue with me over it).

The fact is that the perpetrators of the 9/11 attack were Muslim, and they made that aspect an issue- the feelings towards them are hardly a shock, especially when excerpts from the Quran (admittedly taken out of context) only served to increase the furor.

Hey, as a US citizen there are people all over the world who hate my guts on principle- I can relate.

**mr Fred** · 15-06-2010, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by FailSafe

The fact is that the perpetrators of the 9/11 attack were Muslim, and they made that aspect an issue- the feelings towards them are hardly a shock, especially when excerpts from the Quran (admittedly taken out of context) only served to increase the furor.

Hey, as a US citizen there are people all over the world who hate my guts on principle- I can relate.

The terrorist bastards were claiming to do their evil in the name of the Almighty.
I realise that is likely to and does make the stupid feel they need to hate all Muslims

I also understand why the stupid on the other side of the fence hate you because you are American.

Perhaps it would be better if both camps kicked out their idiots so we could all get on together.

**mr Fred** · 15-06-2010, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by larvidchr

OK Fred, so it is nice normal peaceful Muslims who just want a place of worship, fine I'll buy that, but then explain to me why they want to take the confrontational line on this issue, They are on a charm offensive trying to show that not all Muslims are bad (naturally) ect. so why insist on placing that Mosque in a place they knew beforehand would be so controversial ?

And why name it the Cordoba centre/project, when many knows that is synonym with the Mosque the Muslims built in Cordoba, in celebration of the first victories over the infidels in Spain ?

Even you I'm sure wont refute that Muslims do have negative public relations issues in the Western World, and this thing just do not look so smart and well thought out as it could have been. I cant help speculating if it is a case off some with a more aggressive Islamic agenda, than the nice peaceful Muslims, having had quite a lot of influence on this project.

First is to remove a lie from the OP.
This isn't a mosque. It's a community centre with swimming pool, restaurants, art gallery, conference halls and also a mosque.

Cordoba House - New York City | Cordoba

Worth a read. Other sites show a lot of support from politicians for this.
I'll link them if you really can't be bothered to look.

The name 'Cordoba' is interesting. It was the Islamic capital of what is modern Spain but also the centre of the Spanish Inquisition.
The best clue I have to the name is this.

BBC News - Cordoba, the city with many faiths

I pop into a souvenir store, a temple to poor taste, to buy the gaudiest item on sale - a paperweight of Cordoba's most gifted former citizen, the 12th-Century Jewish philosopher and sage, Maimonides.
Maimonides lived during a golden age of Jewish life in Islamic Spain.

In other words it could be a celebration of a time when modern enemies lived together in peace. I hope I'm right.

The period under Islamic rule was a utopia of tolerance, where Jews and Christians could co-exist and the three monotheistic faiths lived in blissful harmony.

**FailSafe** · 15-06-2010, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by mr Fred

Perhaps it would be better if both camps kicked out their idiots so we could all get on together.

Peace, brother- I have no problem with you based on your religious beliefs, though now that I know them I can better understand your previous posts on the subject.

**sabang** · 15-06-2010, 09:45 PM

"We condemn terrorists. We recognize it exists in our faith, but we are committed to eradicate it," said Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who is leading the charge to build the Cordoba House.

"We want to rebuild this community," he said. "This is about moderate Muslims who intend to be and want to be part of the solution."

.... Tea Party Express chairman Mark Williams called the project a monument to 9/11 attackers "for the worship of the terrorists' monkey-god."

Williams later issued a ham-handed apology to the "millions of Hindus who worship Lord Hanuman, an actual Monkey God."

Imam planning Islamic center, mosque near Ground Zero rips Tea Party's Mark Williams, other critics

That Mark Williams. What an amazing dude.

**Mr Earl** · 16-06-2010, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by zygote1

Please provide 1 example where US citizens have hijacked airplanes and flown them into civilian buildings. Just one will do. Thank you
.

The 1998 unprovoked cruise missile attack in Khartoum might be viewed as similar, though not directed a civilians.
Anyway the US government is far from squeaky clean.

**Attilla the Hen** · 16-06-2010, 03:40 AM

Originally Posted by BugginOut

Their message was if Muslims would like to improve relations with the people of the United States cease and desist plans to build a Mosque over the site that Islamists murdered approximately 3,000 Americans in a heinous act of jihad.

This always pisses me off.
Suddenly all the victims become American.
There was 2646 US citizens and 327 foreign casualties.
Yes, 327. Are they to be forgotten?

**Jet Gorgon** · 16-06-2010, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Attilla the Hen

There was 2646 US citizens and 327 foreign casualties.
Yes, 327. Are they to be forgotten?

Were they muslim?

**sabang** · 16-06-2010, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Were they muslim?

Partial List of Muslim 9/11 Victims:

Samad Afridi
Ashraf Ahmad
Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
Umar Ahmad
Azam Ahsan
Ahmed Ali
Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
Jamal Legesse Desantis
Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
SaleemUllah Farooqi
Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
Osman Gani
Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
Nabid Hossain
Shahzad Hussain
Talat Hussain
Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
Yasmeen Jamal
Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
Arslan Khan Khakwani
Asim Khan
Ataullah Khan
Ayub Khan
Qasim Ali Khan
Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
Yasmeen Khan
Zahida Khan
Badruddin Lakhani
Omar Malick
Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
Raza Mujtaba
Omar Namoos
Mujeb Qazi
Tarranum Rahim
Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
Naveed Rehman
Yusuf Saad
Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
Shoman Samad
Asad Samir
Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.'s Fiduciary Trust)
Jamil Swaati
Sanober Syed
Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
W. Wahid
http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm

**Jet Gorgon** · 16-06-2010, 02:16 PM

^ Yep, they kill their own.

**phomsanuk** · 16-06-2010, 02:29 PM

Try building a church in their countries ANYWHERE!

Mosques are the only houses of prayer in a country where the strict Wahhabi version of Sunni Islam dominates.

**FlyFree** · 16-06-2010, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by mr Fred

Originally Posted by FailSafe

The fact is that the perpetrators of the 9/11 attack were Muslim, and they made that aspect an issue- the feelings towards them are hardly a shock, especially when excerpts from the Quran (admittedly taken out of context) only served to increase the furor.

Hey, as a US citizen there are people all over the world who hate my guts on principle- I can relate.

The terrorist bastards were claiming to do their evil in the name of the Almighty.
I realise that is likely to and does make the stupid feel they need to hate all Muslims

I also understand why the stupid on the other side of the fence hate you because you are American.

Perhaps it would be better if both camps kicked out their idiots so we could all get on together.

No, the stupid idiots, as you call them, are those who believe in religious crap in the first place, extremist or not.

Almighty imagination that defies all sanity.

**mr Fred** · 16-06-2010, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

^ Yep, they kill their own.

The fucking idiot end of Islam will kill anyone that happens to be in the way. That's part of the reason everyone including, no, especially Muslims such as myself need to do anything we can to stop these evil bastards.

On the other side of the coin it's up to everyone to stop the far right wing in the west that have proven themselves to be at least as bad if not worse.

**Smug Farang Bore** · 16-06-2010, 09:42 PM

Forget Churches in Saudi. I just want a chicken n bacon burger from KFC in Burton on Trent.

**chitown** · 22-06-2010, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by mr Fred

First is to remove a lie from the OP.

Originally Posted by mr Fred

This isn't a mosque.

Originally Posted by mr Fred

It's a community centre with swimming pool, restaurants, art gallery, conference halls and also a mosque

Ok so it seems it is a mosque then.

So which lie are you talking about??

**sabang** · 23-06-2010, 12:33 AM

I read it was a 'prayer room', but is there a difference between that and a Mosque? Maybe fred knows.

**chitown** · 23-06-2010, 01:09 AM

I have often thought to mosey in one of the prayer rooms in airports I have been in and take a stinky dump on the floor.

I wonder where the Buddhist temples, Christian churches, Christian Science reading rooms, Hindu Temples etc are at in airports.

**Boon Mee** · 23-06-2010, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by chitown

I have often thought to mosey in one of the prayer rooms in airports I have been in and take a stinky dump on the floor.

I wonder where the Buddhist temples, Christian churches, Christian Science reading rooms, Hindu Temples etc are at in airports.

Actually, I rather like these airports having prayer rooms for the Muslims. Gets ém off the floor where proper folks ain't tripping over them all the time. If any yáll recall the old airport in Singapore before Changi was built - remember the hordes of prayer rugs strewn about with the caterwalling masses you had to trip over to get to your gate?

**sabang** · 23-06-2010, 02:51 AM

I can only imagine what Dubai or Abu Dhabi airport would be like without a prayer room.

**Boon Mee** · 23-06-2010, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

I can only imagine what Dubai or Abu Dhabi airport would be like without a prayer room.

No kidding. It's bad enough at times anyhow - the Dubai airport. Seems like dozens of 777's all arrive at the same time and that new Terminal 3 is literally wall to wall a mass of humanity.

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