Thread: Who is the enemy?

The enemy is Socialism.

The real problem has always been too much fucking credit to people who can't really afford to buy large cost items, but they just keeps on buying because he/she thinks they need it when they actually just want it. Most people blame someone else when it is their own fault. For example, the stupid people who bought those Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARM) without understanding the loan and then when it reset cried like there was no tomorrow. Most of these people were sheep and in over their heads from the beginning and to top it off didn't have to put down a 20% deposit. Too much credit will always separate the men from the boys because in order to benefit from it you have to understand some economics and most people don't have a clue.

Originally Posted by Lynn

The real problem has always been too much fucking credit to people who can't really afford to buy large cost items, but they just keeps on buying because he/she thinks they need it when they actually just want it. Most people blame someone else when it is their own fault. For example, the stupid people who bought those Adjustable Rate Mortgages (ARM) without understanding the loan and then when it reset cried like there was no tomorrow. Most of these people were sheep and in over their heads from the beginning and to top it off didn't have to put down a 20% deposit. Too much credit will always separate the men from the boys because in order to benefit from it you have to understand some economics and most people don't have a clue.

Banks gave these adjustable rate mortgages to people promising they could refinance later to a fixed rate when they knew it wouldn't be that easy. How is an adjustable rate mortgage or adjustable rate anything a good idea. It never is. Might as well write a blank check and give it to them to fill out.

The real problem is that we Americans have been seduced to believe we need all these things to be complete. We are cows being milked of our tax dollars and from birth we are taught to be good spenders through advertising. We have to have the newest cell phone, big house no matter how much space is actually used, a suv we'll never take offroad, and largest tv we can't afford. Next week when the newest model comes out we'll be told by some musician or sports figure to buy it and we will obey.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

We were told for years and years that communists were our enemy and that they wanted to destroy capitalism and bring our economies to their knees. Walls were built, fortunes squandered on missiles and armies on both sides, all to protect our way of life, our values, our freedoms and our jobs.

These days, communists are a bit passé and our freedoms and security, we are told, is threatened by Muslim extremists bent on blowing themselves up so that we might go to hell and they might enjoy 72 virgins for evermore.

But I don't buy it. The people who caused our economies to collapse aren't communists or Saudis. They are the leaders of our banks, stock markets and insurance companies, ably assisted by our politicians who either looked the other way as our money was stolen or who acted a cheerleaders for the plunder. Financial institutions took huge risks with our money. The pocketed the rewards and scarpered. They've left us and our children to pick up the tab. Every British family (apart from the captains of industry who trousered millions) is £40,000 worse off now than they were a year or two ago. We don't know how much worse it is going to get, but we don know it's going to get a lot worse.

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

True. And the Rothschilds have a major hand in it, as they have over the last 300 years.

Originally Posted by benbaaa

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

Because they are us - just bigger and better and greedier. But not really different.

It all started way back when the world abandoned gold as the measure of wealth and swapped it for $US paper. The $US stopped being a currency and became a commodity which of course was in wide demand to replace gold. The Yanks got lazy and started to borrow heaps in $USs but with no way of ever paying it back in actual tangable goods.
Now someone has got to pick up the tab for all those bad debts and it wont be USA. They will just keep pumping out the paper money till it becomes virtually worthless and the rest of the world will wonder how the hell they are ever going to get back the real value of all those goods they sent off to USA on an IOU written in $US paper. The USA doesn't have too much to worry about as long as they can print money and the rest of the world keeps taking it, as its the rest of the world that will end up being saddled with the US debt in the long run.

When the $US crashes they will be back in production again as an export driven nation. Its been the greatest swindle the world has ever known.

Why do you think Obama, Bush and all their top economic advisers want to keep the bubble inflated and play it out to the final end game? The eventual crash of the $US is their objective. Its always been going to end this way since USA decided to take advantage of being able to create wealth at the printing press and live on debt rather than production.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The enemy is Socialism.

actually it's the future. There is no much difference anyway. In one case you get ass raped by private companies, in the other you get ass raped by the state.

Originally Posted by taxexile

Originally Posted by benbaaa

Originally Posted by taxexile

there is a new order now and we had better adjust to it and stop blaming those whom we were quite happy to believe yesterday. move on.

So you're happy to adjust and move on when people steal your money, are you? Jeeze, I wished I lived next door to you, I could retire...

you never had the money anyway , it was all an illusion.

brickies in birmingham driving range rovers and living in 500,000 pound houses , if that isnt an illusion then what is. bound to come crashing down sometime.

multi million bonuses for banking incompetents , its always been like that. they dont deserve shit but i cant do nothing about it.


nobody stole anything from me and i dont owe anybody anything , interest rates and exchange rates are changing all the time. adapt or go under.

wallow in anger at something you have no power to do anything about , or move on and enjoy your life , its up to you !!!

i'm turning thai , living in a bubble , dont care about the rest of you anymore.

go away , move on , leave me alone.

Starting to understand.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by benbaaa

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

Because they are us - just bigger and better and greedier. But not really different.

No, they aren't us. I watched a segment about Japan Airlines CEO last evening that was pretty interesting. He uses public transit to get to work, eats in the cafe with the employees, took a pay cut when he asked the employees to do so, and makes it a point to meet his coworkers. That's right...coworkers because that's what they are. We have a problem with these elite bastards thinking they have the right to the best of everything while their employees suffer. I remember working at America West Airlines and we have a good quarter so all of us got a bonus check. 50 dollars for me and the CEO, Doug Parker, got over one million. He gets in a bonus more than most of his coworkers will make in a lifetime and feels entitled to it. These bastards need to be hung up from the nearest tree. Who is to say that a CEO puts any more into his job than someone at the lowest levels of the business? Managers are keen on telling you how important teamwork is, but they aren't willing to share the wealth. They cut our benefits to show profit to line their pockets while we hope we can put our children through school. They ship your job overseas or hire an illegal immigrant to do it so they can show productivity and savings while you can't pay medical bills. The problem is the sense of entitlement without a sense of right or responsibility to those around you.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

The enemy is Socialism.

The enemy is the man in the mirror.

Originally Posted by mordred

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by benbaaa

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

Because they are us - just bigger and better and greedier. But not really different.

No, they aren't us.

Really? lets see what you said:

Originally Posted by mordred

I remember working at America West Airlines and we have a good quarter so all of us got a bonus check. 50 dollars for me and the CEO, Doug Parker, got over one million.

So, you were both paid for the job you did, but because the company did well you got a bonus. You are only arguing that his share was bigger than yours! If you had said - we were paid already for the job and the money should have been invested in the company - you may have had a point. But you also think you are entitled to a bonus for a job you had already been paid to do, but resent that he got more.

Which is exactly what I said. bigger, better and greedier. Not different.

No, I resent that Mr Parker feels he deserves more unlike the CEO of JAL that I spoke of. He sounds like a guy I could respect because he doesn't show the same signs of entitlement. Mr Parker could buy a house, put his children through college, and still have a nice bit in savings on his bonus check while I could maybe buy a tank of gas. How is that fairness if we're all so important in our positions within the company?

Originally Posted by mordred

No, I resent that Mr Parker feels he deserves more unlike the CEO of JAL that I spoke of. He sounds like a guy I could respect because he doesn't show the same signs of entitlement. Mr Parker could buy a house, put his children through college, and still have a nice bit in savings on his bonus check while I could maybe buy a tank of gas. How is that fairness if we're all so important in our positions within the company?

You are not getting it are you? You are still arguing about the fact that he got more than you!

You agree with the system that gives money to people (bonuses) for a job they were already paid for, but are peeved at how the cake was split.

He did it better than you - he was greedier than you. My original point.

I'm getting it and it isn't about more or less. I've been talking all along about a sense of entitlement and right and responsibility to those around you.

Originally Posted by mordred

I'm getting it and it isn't about more or less. I've been talking all along about a sense of entitlement and right and responsibility to those around you.

Ok. Explain to me why you felt entitled to extra payment for a job you had already been paid to do because the company did well.

Originally Posted by mordred

No, I resent that Mr Parker feels he deserves more unlike the CEO of JAL that I spoke of. He sounds like a guy I could respect because he doesn't show the same signs of entitlement. Mr Parker could buy a house, put his children through college, and still have a nice bit in savings on his bonus check while I could maybe buy a tank of gas. How is that fairness if we're all so important in our positions within the company?

Its the American way. Free enterprise and all that stuff.
The ones that make the rules get paid the most because they make the rules, the others, well they can go wave the flag and tell us about how they are bringing freedom and democracy to the Middle East. The Yanks do love their wars. Just a distraction to keep the masses occupied really.

I have seen how the blue collar workers live in USA. They earn every cent they get. The division of wealth in USA is getting to obscene levels. Just a wealthier, bigger version of Thailand in a lot of ways.

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by mordred

I'm getting it and it isn't about more or less. I've been talking all along about a sense of entitlement and right and responsibility to those around you.

Ok. Explain to me why you felt entitled to extra payment for a job you had already been paid to do because the company did well.

Perhaps you might be able to explain why company executives who have shown themselves to be totally incompetant are entitled to bonuses up in the hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars? It does seem a tad unfair dont you think?

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by nidhogg

Originally Posted by mordred

I'm getting it and it isn't about more or less. I've been talking all along about a sense of entitlement and right and responsibility to those around you.

Ok. Explain to me why you felt entitled to extra payment for a job you had already been paid to do because the company did well.

Perhaps you might be able to explain why company executives who have shown themselves to be totally incompetant are entitled to bonuses up in the hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars? It does seem a tad unfair dont you think?

Why should I defend or explain company execs? They are greedy bastards, as I said in my original post. I just think they are greedier and better at it than the rest of us. Not different.

I believe we all should have our basic needs met. Among these are: food, housing, health care, and education. It is our employers responsibility to provide these things in exchange for our service, loyalty, and other responsibilities. How is it fair for some to suffer while others have so much? What is the worth of the employee and their time, and how are these things determined? I believe there should be very little difference between the earnings of the highest paid employee and the lowest. This way everyone benefits instead of a few.

Originally Posted by mordred

I believe we all should have our basic needs met. Among these are: food, housing, health care, and education. It is our employers responsibility to provide these things in exchange for our service, loyalty, and other responsibilities. How is it fair for some to suffer while others have so much? What is the worth of the employee and their time, and how are these things determined? I believe there should be very little difference between the earnings of the highest paid employee and the lowest. This way everyone benefits instead of a few.

Thank you comrade. I understand you position clearly now.

Yes, I'm a communist.

This way everyone benefits instead of a few.

that way , nobody benefits.

Among these are: food, housing, health care, and education. It is our employers responsibility to provide these things in exchange for our service, loyalty, and other responsibilities.

what crap.

it is your employers responsibility to provide you with the opportunity to work.
your employer has taken all the risk in setting up the factory/business/office/enterprise.

you , as an employee have risked nothing , you can take the job for a few months and then if the fancy takes you leave the job for a holiday ion thailand whilst the employer has to find a replacement.

the employers only responsibility is to pay you a wage for your time and effort.

what you do with that money is your business , you can piss it away on gambling and whiskey , or save for your future , you could start your own business , but most employees havent got the guts or the brains or the staying power to do that. too much like hard work.

if earnings were the same for the ceo and the floor sweeper , then why bother to work your way up to be ceo , just take it easy as the sweeper , no worries , and rake in as much as the ceo .

there has got to be an incentive , and that incentive is usually money.

communism and socialism reward laziness , which is why those societies have always failed.

let the government provide hospitals , roads and schools , nothing more.

minimal interference and minimal benefit systems which only encourage the lazy and the devious.

reward effort , reward successful effort , and punish indolence, greed and dishonesty.

Originally Posted by taxexile

there has got to be an incentive , and that incentive is usually money.

And this is the crux of the problem. When love of money trumps the love of a purposeful life then these inequities will emerge.

As far as the bonus example used earlier, yes all employees should receive an equal share of the profits that the company made above and beyond expenses and investments. All contributed to the success of the company.

Originally Posted by taxexile

you , as an employee have risked nothing , you can take the job for a few months and then if the fancy takes you leave the job for a holiday in thailand whilst the employer has to find a replacement...your employer has taken all the risk in setting up the factory/business/office/enterprise.

Ever hear of a golden parachute? Or government bailout?