Who is the enemy?

**benbaaa** · 29-01-2009, 09:49 AM

We were told for years and years that communists were our enemy and that they wanted to destroy capitalism and bring our economies to their knees. Walls were built, fortunes squandered on missiles and armies on both sides, all to protect our way of life, our values, our freedoms and our jobs.

These days, communists are a bit passé and our freedoms and security, we are told, is threatened by Muslim extremists bent on blowing themselves up so that we might go to hell and they might enjoy 72 virgins for evermore.

But I don't buy it. The people who caused our economies to collapse aren't communists or Saudis. They are the leaders of our banks, stock markets and insurance companies, ably assisted by our politicians who either looked the other way as our money was stolen or who acted a cheerleaders for the plunder. Financial institutions took huge risks with our money. The pocketed the rewards and scarpered. They've left us and our children to pick up the tab. Every British family (apart from the captains of industry who trousered millions) is £40,000 worse off now than they were a year or two ago. We don't know how much worse it is going to get, but we don know it's going to get a lot worse.

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

**melvbot** · 29-01-2009, 10:01 AM

I think there are plenty of people angry about it but theres very little you can do. There will always be a man at the top and a man at the bottom, if youre at the top you can get away with more things than the man at the bottom.

You can be the head of a multinational corporation, run it into the ground then ask the government to dip into our pockets to pay for it. If my dad went to the government and asked for a few quid to make sure his business didnt suffer too much in times like this they would laugh at him.

Living here many people say Thailand is corrupt, which it is, but theres also large scale corruption in the UK and the US but of a slightly different type. This corruption has a different face which is more or less accepted by the public as they are spoon fed it in a different way.

**chitown** · 29-01-2009, 10:04 AM

Financial crashes come an go.

I think the downfall of the Western economy was when mom and pop stores slipped off the scene and Walmart stores and Home Depot stores . The big stores are mismanaged and not customer friendly.

I really miss going down to the neighborhood grocery that was run by the Majewski family. Mr. Majewski would cut some fresh meat for you and could find any item anywhere in the store. Mrs. Majewski would ring you up and peel the wrapper off your ice cream sandwhcih for you.

Now you go into a Walmart and you can't find help. If you do they cant' find what your looking for and let you know that can't be bothered to do so.

**benbaaa** · 29-01-2009, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by chitown

Financial crashes come an go.

Yes, but they're not like typhoons, they have causes - the decisions made by the people in charge. In another thread, we're all moaning about the lack of accountability for the owners and managers of the Santika pub disaster. So why aren't we moaning about the lack of accountability in our own financial institutions?

**chitown** · 29-01-2009, 10:11 AM

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

**Butterfly** · 29-01-2009, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by benbaaa

So: Why aren't we angry about this? Why aren't we lining the CEOs up against a wall somewhere? Why aren't we measuring the drop for our politicians?

maybe because it's not as bad as it should be ? bankers always fuckup the money you give them, it comes with the job, and it's never going to change.

When you are given too much money, you have no idea what to do with it, and banks are no exception, so you do stupid shit. You want to blame banks ? blame the stupidity and naivety of the public who gives away billions of their savings to those banks in hope of "better" returns. Blame the governments that have "deregulated" the banking industry, and the "anti-money" laundering laws that made banks central to our economy to fight "corruption".

**taxexile** · 29-01-2009, 10:17 AM

we've all been happy enough to take the benefits of the boom years without asking too many questions.

there is a new order now and we had better adjust to it and stop blaming those whom we were quite happy to believe yesterday.

move on.

**Rural Surin** · 29-01-2009, 10:32 AM

You'll continue to have enemies if you're able and willing to play their game. Enemies are fabricated. Most of us are susceptible, because we play that game.

**larvidchr** · 29-01-2009, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by chitown

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

"Sub primes" introduced and championed by------------Democrats

**barbaro** · 29-01-2009, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by chitown

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

"Sub primes" introduced and championed by--Democrats

And Republicans.

This started in the 1990s.

GWB also signed the ADD Act: The American Dream Down Payment act.

**Rural Surin** · 29-01-2009, 10:58 AM

This shouldn't turn to a struggle of political comparatives regarding political identity.....they're all one and the same. The sooner you all wake from your slumber the better off you will be.

**larvidchr** · 29-01-2009, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by chitown

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

"Sub primes" introduced and championed by--Democrats

And Republicans.

This started in the 1990s.

GWB also signed the ADD Act: The American Dream Down Payment act.

MM I believe that the SP actually was started by Jimmy Carter in 1977 give or take a year or two from there it developed into the monster that has brought the whole world to it's knees, Freddy and Fanny gave their biggest campaign contributions to Democrats through the years since it was mainly Democrats that ensured the schemes continued growth.

"Reinvestment Act (CRA) – a Carter-era policy that requires federal financial supervisory agencies to encourage banks to grant loans to people with low income and little credit – played a major role in sparking the sub-prime mortgage crisis the nation now faces, according to economist Russell Roberts, who spoke at a forum on the issue Thursday at the Hudson Institute." ( from CSNNews.com )

**barbaro** · 29-01-2009, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Rural Surin

This shouldn't turn to a struggle of political comparatives regarding political identity.....they're all one and the same. The sooner you all wake from your slumber the better of you will be.

I agree. I feel that many Americans are blindly partisan and think the parties are different. They're actually so similar I consider them the same.

Look at where the soft money comes from. The same corporations.

Ds and Rs both collude.

"You support my bill X and I'll vote for your bill, Y."

**Muadib** · 29-01-2009, 11:13 AM

^ All politicians a cvnts... Much like a used car salesman, you can always tell when they're lying because their lips are moving...

**benbaaa** · 29-01-2009, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by taxexile

there is a new order now and we had better adjust to it and stop blaming those whom we were quite happy to believe yesterday. move on.

So you're happy to adjust and move on when people steal your money, are you? Jeeze, I wished I lived next door to you, I could retire...

**Bugs** · 29-01-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Milkman

"You support my bill X and I'll vote for your bill, Y."

I think it goes much deeper than that. There certainly are some differences on the forgien diplomacy side of things. But generally speaking on the domestic side they are both very similar - spend, spend, spend.

Hopefull the recent ass-kicking the red team took will allow for some more traditional (small government) types to take that party in a different direction. Hopefully by the time they have the US dollar will still have some value.

The most recent exception to the above was back when Billy boy was in the WH. We had a blue team pres, and a red team congress - no deficit. Oh, those where the days.

**barbaro** · 29-01-2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by Milkman

Originally Posted by larvidchr

Originally Posted by chitown

I knew a lot of lenders a few years ago. They were force by the government to give loans to unqualified people. I blame the government for forcing lending practices down their throats.

"Sub primes" introduced and championed by--Democrats

And Republicans.

This started in the 1990s.

GWB also signed the ADD Act: The American Dream Down Payment act.

MM I believe that the SP actually was started by Jimmy Carter in 1977 give or take a year or two from there it developed into the monster that has brought the whole world to it's knees, Freddy and Fanny gave their biggest campaign contributions to Democrats through the years since it was mainly Democrats that ensured the schemes continued growth.

"Reinvestment Act (CRA) – a Carter-era policy that requires federal financial supervisory agencies to encourage banks to grant loans to people with low income and little credit – played a major role in sparking the sub-prime mortgage crisis the nation now faces, according to economist Russell Roberts, who spoke at a forum on the issue Thursday at the Hudson Institute." ( from CSNNews.com )

True, the CRA started in the late 70s. And since then there have been many, many, new de-regulations, to fraudulent loan apps, the Pick-a-pay (Option Arms).

My point is that it's not about one political parties.

It's about both political parties.
HUD secretaries
private lenders
banks

Dishonest mortgage industry and stupid people who borrowed money they couldn't pay back.

**Butterfly** · 29-01-2009, 12:04 PM

it doesn't matter who started it, the Republicans didn't stop it when they had a chance, they are as guilty and part of the problem, not the solution

**Bugs** · 29-01-2009, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

it doesn't matter who started it, the Republicans didn't stop it when they had a chance, they are as guilty and part of the problem, not the solution

Same, same can be said of the other side as well.

It doesn't matter who started it, the Dems didn't stop it when they had a chance, they are as guilty and part of the problem, not the solution.

So the Reps are not the Solution, and the Dems are not the solution - what is the solution?

**Butterfly** · 29-01-2009, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bugs

It doesn't matter who started it, the Dems didn't stop it when they had a chance, they are as guilty and part of the problem, not the solution.

I disagree, Democrats were only logical with their agenda, that is supporting Fiscal Spending and helping the "poor" to improve their lifestyle. This can't be said of the Republicans and highly hypocrite of them, as usual, to point the finger to others. They are useless, at least the Democrats have ideas to improve things, the Conservatives are only agitating their arms in the air and are mostly scared of their own shadow.

Originally Posted by Bugs

what is the solution?

Burn the Republican Party

**taxexile** · 29-01-2009, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by benbaaa

Originally Posted by taxexile

there is a new order now and we had better adjust to it and stop blaming those whom we were quite happy to believe yesterday. move on.

So you're happy to adjust and move on when people steal your money, are you? Jeeze, I wished I lived next door to you, I could retire...

you never had the money anyway , it was all an illusion.

brickies in birmingham driving range rovers and living in 500,000 pound houses , if that isnt an illusion then what is. bound to come crashing down sometime.

multi million bonuses for banking incompetents , its always been like that. they dont deserve shit but i cant do nothing about it.

nobody stole anything from me and i dont owe anybody anything , interest rates and exchange rates are changing all the time. adapt or go under.

wallow in anger at something you have no power to do anything about , or move on and enjoy your life , its up to you !!!

i'm turning thai , living in a bubble , dont care about the rest of you anymore.

go away , move on , leave me alone.

**Butterfly** · 29-01-2009, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by taxexile

brickies in birmingham driving range rovers and living in 500,000 pound houses , if that isnt an illusion then what is. bound to come crashing down sometime.

Someone should tell this to Dirty Dog, he might be missing great opportunities by staying in Thailand too long and whoring with Soi 6 slagdogs,

**Johnny Longprong** · 29-01-2009, 04:43 PM

Benbaaa, you are not only courageous, but correct.

**Norton** · 29-01-2009, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Bugs

spend, spend, spend.

No problem with this. It's the spend, spend, spend without the income to pay for it. There in lies the problem of government and it's citizens. This has got to change or we will all have to pay, pay pay.

**Butterfly** · 29-01-2009, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Norton

we will all have to pay, pay pay.

you are already, game over

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