Israel Bombs Gaza

DaffyDuck · 03-02-2009, 03:41 AM

Effectively, the best solution for Israel would be to leave Israel - yes, you heard that right. "Going out of Business - Everything Must Go" and to effectively give the Arab world exactly what they wish for... As Sabang pointed out, the only thing semi uniting the Arab World (and Iran) is their hate for Israel.

Take that away by having Israel removed, and all Israelis leave for another place to call their home, and what would be the inevitable outcome:

- The rest of the Arab world will drop any and all pretense of caring for the Palestinians.
- Most likely rush in, in a mad land grab, and taking all the disputed territories for themselves, Jordan and Egypt at the forefront, leaving Palestinians with nothing.
- continue inter-tribal warfares and conflicts.

Israelis can, in the interim, head over to a friendly country to give them some land, or better yet, a nice island in a tropical zone, to call their own and wait it out.

Eventually, the Arabs will have wiped the Palestinians off the face of the map, and reduced their own numbers, and bled their own resources with stupid regional squabbles.

That's when the UN steps in, re-establishing the same Israel borders (this time without the conflicting Palestinians), and puts the Israelis right back where they came from -- though I suspect, if they received a nice enough tropical island, they might not want to leave.

There - problem solved.

**sabang** · 03-02-2009, 04:00 AM

So much for the Promised Land then.

Unless Israel accepts the somewhat more normal solution of a combined nation with citizens who are both Israeli (mainly immigrants, lets face it) and Palestinian citizens, then there is no other solution than the two state solution. Unless of course you can persuade the Israeli's to adopt your plan daffy.

As always, I challenge anyone to come up with a feasible alternative.

**Panda** · 03-02-2009, 04:37 AM

[quote=DaffyDuck;943111]Effectively, the best solution for Israel would be to leave Israel

Take that away by having Israel removed, and all Israelis leave for another place to call their home, and what would be the inevitable outcome:

quote]

California sounds good.
Might have some problems getting rid of those pesky Yanks though.

DaffyDuck · 03-02-2009, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

Effectively, the best solution for Israel would be to leave Israel

Take that away by having Israel removed, and all Israelis leave for another place to call their home, and what would be the inevitable outcome:

California sounds good.
Might have some problems getting rid of those pesky Yanks though.

I was thinking Australia to be a better option -- the Aussies are easy to get rid off, as they can be put on reservations along with the Abos, just as long as you promise them free beer, and big screen tellys with rugby on it; The Israelis can maintain the grand tradition of mistreating the Abos, except this time the world won't care much; and, as a special bonus, the Israelis will actually develop Australia into a productive nation.

Plus, the Kiwis can help them and show them how to properly run a nation down under.

Makes a lot more sense -- I was considering some of the countryside in England at first, but the weather would not agree with them, plus England's a hopeless cause.

DaffyDuck · 03-02-2009, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by sabang

Unless of course you can persuade the Israeli's to adopt your plan daffy.

Let's send Butterfly or someone else to negotiate?

**Panda** · 03-02-2009, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

Originally Posted by Panda

Originally Posted by DaffyDuck

Effectively, the best solution for Israel would be to leave Israel

Take that away by having Israel removed, and all Israelis leave for another place to call their home, and what would be the inevitable outcome:

California sounds good.
Might have some problems getting rid of those pesky Yanks though.

I was thinking Australia to be a better option -- the Aussies are easy to get rid off, as they can be put on reservations along with the Abos, just as long as you promise them free beer, and big screen tellys with rugby on it; The Israelis can maintain the grand tradition of mistreating the Abos, except this time the world won't care much; and, as a special bonus, the Israelis will actually develop Australia into a productive nation.

Plus, the Kiwis can help them and show them how to properly run a nation down under.

Makes a lot more sense -- I was considering some of the countryside in England at first, but the weather would not agree with them, plus England's a hopeless cause.

No prize for second there Duck.

**Butterfly** · 03-02-2009, 07:04 AM

actually original plan was to put them in Africa, quite appropriate, a place full of shit and dictators. I wonder who pushed for Palestine eventually.

nasty bastards that they are.

**Butterfly** · 03-02-2009, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Bugs

As things stand it appears that Netanyahu will end up getting the PM job and as such Israel will likely go back on the offensive.

He is a nutjob, and this whole war was a poor attempt by the current government to gain points for the election, and again they failed, like they did before. They have no clue. If Nethya is elected, that will be the end of Israel. He is highly divisive, and one of the NeoCon signatory, and will start a world war if given a chance.

Actually, if he attacks Iran without US approval, I will be curious of Obama reaction, that could be the beginning of a divorce proceeding, and the beginning of the end for Israel.

Bring him on !!!

**Panda** · 03-02-2009, 07:54 AM

[quote=Butterfly;943173]

Originally Posted by Bugs

Actually, if he attacks Iran without US approval, I will be curious of Obama reaction, that could be the beginning of a divorce proceeding, and the beginning of the end for Israel.

Bring him on !!!

No mate, the Zionist lobby owns the US politicians and none of them would have the balls to cross Israel. If prez Obama dumped Israel it would be the end of his political career. He would be labeled a terrorist sympathizer and an anti semitic in every media outlet across the country. All the Zionists would have to do is to support another prostitute prez candidate to swing things back their way.
Israel can make or break any politician they want in USA.

**Butterfly** · 03-02-2009, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Panda

If prez Obama dumped Israel it would be the end of his political career. He would be labeled a terrorist sympathizer and an anti semitic in every media outlet across the country.

maybe a weak President or a poor leader like Carter or GW Bush, but not Obama. I think he could change that wave, it's very early and they can't attack him right away out of the blue and label him anti-semitic. This is his best chance ever to break lose Israel, it's a sinking ship anyhow, it's a matter of time.

**Panda** · 03-02-2009, 08:46 AM

"Senator Obama is the candidate who best represents the Jewish community's values and ideals, and he will pursue the policies in the Middle East that will best serve US interests and protect Israel's security," Shapiro told The Jerusalem Post. "I am excited to join his winning team."

Obama campaign appoints Daniel Shapiro Jewish senior policy adviser | America Decides 2008 | Jerusalem Post

"Signaling an intensified effort to compete for the Jewish vote, the Obama campaign appointed Daniel Shapiro as a senior policy adviser and Jewish outreach coordinator on Tuesday.

Shapiro, who has long advised the campaign on issues connected to the Jewish community and Middle East policy, is taking on a heightened role as the campaign ramps up its staff ahead of the Democratic convention and the general election race this fall.
The biggest staffing addition - who Illinois Sen. Barack Obama will tap as his running mate - is also expected to be announced in the coming days, with the convention beginning next Monday.
"The Obama campaign is reaching out aggressively to the Jewish community through the creation of Jewish Community Leadership Councils in cities around the country," the campaign stated in making the announcement of Shapiro's appointment, noting that he joins National Jewish Vote director Eric Lynn, who has also long been working on these issues for the campaign.
"Senator Obama is the candidate who best represents the Jewish community's values and ideals, and he will pursue the policies in the Middle East that will best serve US interests and protect Israel's security," Shapiro told The Jerusalem Post. "I am excited to join his winning team." Shapiro, who accompanied Obama on his recent trip to Israel, has worked as a Washington lobbyist as well as in several Congressional offices and the National Security Council during the Clinton administration. A former deputy chief of staff to Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Florida), he has also been a staff adviser to Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California) and former House Foreign Affairs Committee chairman Lee Hamilton (D-Indiana).

"It reaffirms that the campaign gets that they need to make a commitment to outreach in the community. They need to spend money and dedicate staff and resources," said Steve Rabinowitz, a Democratic strategist who works with the Jewish community. "Things are going fine," he said of the campaign's Jewish outreach. "The campaign totally gets that it has work to do with the community and they're continuing to do that work." "

**Butterfly** · 03-02-2009, 08:52 AM

^ you need cooperators to get your way, so big fucking deal

if he fucks up and not do anything for Israel vicious attack, he will just become another dog like GW Bush and eventually the end of his presidency when everything goes pear shape

He is much smarter than that, a bit like Bill Clinton, never show your game

**Panda** · 03-02-2009, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

^ you need cooperators to get your way, so big fucking deal

if he fucks up and not do anything for Israel vicious attack, he will just become another dog like GW Bush and eventually the end of his presidency when everything goes pear shape

He is much smarter than that, a bit like Bill Clinton, never show your game

Obama has no choice but to do what the Zionists tell him to if he wants a second term in office.
Same as every other prez in recent times.
Thats the reason why USA continues to fund, arm and protect Israel.

**Jesus Jones** · 03-02-2009, 11:03 AM

Rothschilds, Kissengers, Rockerfellas all have Jewish connections. There is no way on this planet Obama will sever ties with Israel, he can't.

**Butterfly** · 03-02-2009, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Panda

Obama has no choice but to do what the Zionists tell him to if he wants a second term in office.
Same as every other prez in recent times.
Thats the reason why USA continues to fund, arm and protect Israel.

Originally Posted by Jesus Jones

Rothschilds, Kissengers, Rockerfellas all have Jewish connections. There is no way on this planet Obama will sever ties with Israel, he can't.

You guys sound too much like conspiracy theorists. I just hope you are wrong.

Maybe if Nethya attack Iran unprovoked, he will get a nice little package in return

**Bugs** · 03-02-2009, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Butterfly

Maybe if Nethya attack Iran unprovoked, he will get a nice little package in return

The most likely package would be a big fat bouns aid package of funds and guns from the US.

**Butterfly** · 03-02-2009, 12:26 PM

^ will not help, if he gets to eat his cake, yellow cake that is

**Bugs** · 09-02-2009, 11:50 AM

No big surprise here - a US study says Israel did not break the "laws of war" in their most recent Gaza campaign.

Study: Israel did not violate war laws | Israel | Jerusalem Post

Israel did not violate the laws of war and made marked improvements in its fighting capability during the recent military operation against Hamas in Gaza, yet the gains from the conflict in the long term remain uncertain, a US study concludes.

The analysis of the 22-day conflict in Gaza by Anthony H. Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies finds "impressive improvements in the readiness and capability" of the Israeli Defense Forces since the war against Hizbullah in Lebanon in 2006, and unequivocally states that Israel did not violate the laws of war despite the large number of civilian casualties among the Palestinians.

"[Israel] did deliberately use decisive force to enhance regional deterrence and demonstrate that it had restored its military edge," the report states. "These, however, are legitimate military objectives in spite of their very real humanitarian costs."
Nearly 1,300 Palestinians were killed in the operation, including hundreds of civilians, according to Palestinian officials in Gaza.

The analysis finds that the IDF did not succeed in deterring Hamas from new rocket strikes on Israel or make "definitive changes in the political and military situation in Gaza," noting that the post-conflict situation looks strikingly like the situation before the fighting began.
Sporadic Palestinian rockets attacks against Israel have continued since the January 18 unilateral cease-fire declaration.

The report finds that while the success of the IDF military operation may have enhanced some aspects of Israel's military edge and ability to deter further attacks, it also did much to provoke reactions built on the anger caused by both the steadily deteriorating situation of the Palestinians and the impact of civilian casualties and collateral damage.
"The end result is that it is far from certain that Israel's tactical successes achieved significant strategic and grand strategic benefits," the report concludes.

Edit in to add a second link:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...666995,00.html

WASHINGTON – Israel did not violate the rules of war during its recent Gaza operation, a new US study says, while praising the IDF's "impressive improvements" since the war against Hizbullah in 2006.

Israel "deliberately used decisive force to enhance regional deterrence and demonstrate that it had restored its military edge," wrote Anthony H. Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "These, however, are legitimate military objectives in spite of their very real humanitarian costs."

The study notes that "political efforts to manipulate the "rules of war and humanitarian considerations have become a key weapon in asymmetric warfare, and are often used as a basis for propaganda and gaining political leverage in this type of conflict."

"Real suffering is translated into exaggerated charges and numbers that cannot be validated by reliable data or methodology," the study says. "In practice, even if Israel had agreed to all of the conventions involved, they are severely limited and often difficult or impossible to apply to the realities of war — even one fought with restraint and a focus on military targets."

'Noting new about such tactics'

Cordesman notes that "Some buildings like schools merit special consideration, but only require review to determine whether they are really military targets. Hospitals require warning but are not protected if used by an enemy."

"White phosphorous can be used against military but not civilian targets," he adds, noting that "such laws and conventions do not bind or restrain non-state actors like Hamas in any meaningful way."

"The end result is a situation where one side can potentially be limited by international law where the other is not, and that effectively makes international law a potential weapon for the side that rejects and exploits it," the study says. "It is also a situation that empowers and incentivizes extremists to use civilians as the equivalent of human shields by embedding their forces in civilian populations and areas, and using sensitive buildings like mosques and schools or collocating near them. There is nothing new about such tactics."

"The study" both links refer to was done by CSIS - Center for Strategic and International Studies.

**Bugs** · 09-02-2009, 12:04 PM

Whoops - the UN lied? Or just let the world draw their own conclusions about Israel bombing a UN school?

UN backs down on 'school massacre' in Gaza | The Australian

THE UN has retracted claims over one of the biggest controversies in the Gaza war, admitting that an Israeli mortar attack that killed 43 people did not hit a school run by a UN agency.

The January 6 incident, described at the time as the "school massacre", figured prominently in accusations that Israel committed war crimes in the deaths of hundreds of civilians during the war.

A statement issued yesterday by the UN Office for the Co-ordination of Human Affairs acknowledged that it had wrongly blamed the deaths at the time on the "shelling of the UNRWA (Relief and Works Agency) school".

"The humanitarian co-ordinator would like to clarify that the shelling, and all of the fatalities, took place outside rather than inside the school," the statement said.

The clarification came several days after a journalist for Canada's Globe and Mail newspaper, Patrick Martin, interviewed Palestinians living near the school and a teacher, who told him that none of the casualties were in the school but on the street outside.

In a television interview the day of the incident at a Gaza hospital where casualties were brought, the UNRWA operations director in Gaza, John Ging, an Irish national, did not explicitly say the shells had hit the school but he left that impression.

"Those in the school were all families seeking refuge," he said. "There's nowhere safe in Gaza."

Neither Mr Ging nor other UN officials attempted subsequently to dispel the widespread suspicions of Israeli culpability, although they knew otherwise, until the newspaper report.

Israeli army spokesmen during the war said Israeli troops had fired three mortar shells in response to mortar fire from the area near the school, not from the school itself.

They said the dead included two identifiable Palestinian militants believed to have been involved in the mortar firing.

That denial, however, did not convince critics around the world, who continued to accuse Israel of deliberately targeting schools harbouring civilians seeking shelter, a belief buttressed by the UN statement.

Military analyst Anthony Cordesman, in a study of the Gaza conflict released this week, concluded that the Israeli Defence Forces did not violate the rules of war during the three-week campaign. He said Hamas was not bound by international conventions but was able to "manipulate humanitarian considerations" for propaganda leverage.

"The end result is a situation where one side can potentially be limited by international law where the other is not, and that effectively makes international law a potential weapon for the side that rejects and exploits it," writes Professor Cordesman, of Washington's Centre for Strategic and International Studies.

"It is a situation that empowers and incentivises extremists to use civilians as the equivalent of human shields by embedding their forces in civilian populations and using sensitive buildings like mosques and schools. There is nothing new about such tactics."

An Israeli watchdog organisation, NGO Monitor, released a report this week accusing international human rights organisations of ignoring the use by Hamas of human shields while "publishing unverified eyewitness evidence and unaccountable casualty figures throughout the conflict, which have since been refuted. These claims helped create an assumption of Israeli guilt and were amplified by the media, influencing the conflict itself."

Meanwhile, a UN spokesman, in a rare public clash with Hamas, accused Hamas police of breaking into a Gaza warehouse full of UN humanitarian supplies and seizing thousands of blankets and food packages.

"They were armed, they seized this, they took it by force," said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness, who described the incident "absolutely unacceptable".

**DrivingForce** · 09-02-2009, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bugs

Israeli army spokesmen during the war said Israeli troops had fired three mortar shells in response to mortar fire from the area near the school, not from the school itself. They said the dead included two identifiable Palestinian militants believed to have been involved in the mortar firing.

So it turns out it was some pretty damn good surgical striking?? Good on the IDF the UN is more and more becoming a propaganda tool and less and less any type of world adjudicator to hold any credibility, it's polluted with pacifists and liberals clearly...

I saw the interview on CNN where the UN representative all but called the Israeli ambassador a liar about this situation and clearly he knew he was being a hypocrite with inaccurate information at the time and he was insistent about Israels "crime" in supposedly bombing this school, the UN has no more credibility than any other radical leftist group..

I wonder if he'll be as adamant about their innocence now in the face of the public as he was about their guilt during this interview and make a public apology, he should as he should be held accountable for his bogus claims..

Good for this reporter too who clearly does not follow the party line either.. Without his impartial investigation this would have been swept under the rug.. I also praise those honest Pali's who told the truth, that took courage to defy the terrorists propaganda..

**Boon Mee** · 11-02-2009, 01:01 AM

Says it all, really...

**keda** · 11-02-2009, 04:52 AM

I heard some of them are ex mods, while others are still in training.

DaffyDuck · 11-02-2009, 06:04 AM

Meanwhile, a UN spokesman, in a rare public clash with Hamas, accused Hamas police of breaking into a Gaza warehouse full of UN humanitarian supplies and seizing thousands of blankets and food packages.

"They were armed, they seized this, they took it by force," said UNRWA spokesman Christopher Gunness, who described the incident "absolutely unacceptable".

Can't wait for the sincere apologies from all the Hamas apologists in this thread -- you know, Butterfingers, and his pals... (obviously, I'm not holding my breath)..

**MrG** · 11-02-2009, 07:49 AM

You can't argue with religious extremists like those who use God (Allah) as their justification, or the ones who use Yaweh to steal land and bomb babies. Whatever "rights" Israel once claimed, they have turned their country (some would say revealed it) into a mob of killers stealing other people's land.

**Butterfly** · 11-02-2009, 08:33 AM

^ exactly, but there is good news on that front. Israel society is so divided, it will soon lose that battle and implode. Wait until Nethya doesn't get the top job, and see how "peaceful" a democracy Israel is,

We can only hope Israeli extremists start a civil war, that would be the end of it. Self destruction from inside, couldn't happen to a better bunch of people.

Thread: Israel Bombs Gaza

Thread Tools

Display

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions