Seriously, why do people seem to hate "Jews"

**Texpat** · 08-11-2008, 01:21 AM

^^^^ Well, there we are ... thanks for that BIG FAT ZERO. There's a consolation prize waiting for you backstage....

Anybody else have a reason why the west shouldn't support Israel?

**withnallstoke** · 08-11-2008, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by jandajoy

Quote: Originally Posted by withnallstoke The hatred of the jew has been part of my culture for a thousand years at least. What culture is that?

Difficult . What i regard as culture is the inheritance of things that don't need to be explained. Because they just are. Very difficult to justify, but that is what happens. Doesn't stop me from trying to find out why though.
The Cliffords tower incident was just an an example of this.

**AntRobertson** · 08-11-2008, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Anybody else have a reason why the west shouldn't support Israel?

Got a reason why they should?

**Texpat** · 08-11-2008, 01:29 AM

Well, maybe that they're a sovereign nation, recognized by the UN -- sorta like Georgia --

whoopsie, we see where that got them ....

**AntRobertson** · 08-11-2008, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Well, maybe that they're a sovereign nation, recognized by the UN -- sorta like Georgia --

whoopsie, we see where that got them ....

Iraq was a sovereign nation, recognised by the UN...

**Texpat** · 08-11-2008, 01:35 AM

So was Georgia.

Funny how the UN had a few dozen resolutions against one of "our" examples...

And another country invaded with no dialogue, no inspections, no coalition ...

Yet you try to couple the two..

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Are you new at this?

**AntRobertson** · 08-11-2008, 01:36 AM

And any of this relates to a reason why the West should support Israel how...?

**NickA** · 08-11-2008, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Anybody else have a reason why the west shouldn't support Israel?

cos they couldn't give a fuck?

**NickA** · 08-11-2008, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Slipstream

If you read certain media articles you can usually ascertain which ones are anti Israel by the exhaustive coverage they give the Palestinians and Lebanese. The BBC being a particular one.

The BBC pro-Israeli? Is the Pope Jewish? | Martin Walker - Times Online

**attaboy** · 08-11-2008, 03:25 AM

Originally Posted by buriramboy

It probably has something to do with the conditions the Palestinians are forced to live in which is basically a disgrace and an embarrassment to the Western world in my opinion, yet the American press comes across as though Israel is all good and such a persecuted country and needs defending at all costs even though the Israel is a nuclear country and all Palestinians are deemed terrorists if you watch FOX. When in reality the Palestinians are probably the most persecuted people on the face of the Earth and this brings out a lot of resentment in people.

Originally Posted by wandering

Ever heard of the Karen (and other groups) being eradicated in Burma/Myanmar?
How about the Congo or Sudan.
The news tells us that the Palestinians are the most persecuted. The news never mentions the genocide in Myanmar.

You would think their Arab brothers would take some of them in as refugees but they don't. The Palestinians suffer because it's one of their weapons they use to gain sympathy in the press. Children throwing rocks at tanks generates an emotional and romantic image that people don't bother to analyze.

To the OP: I don't know why people hate Jewish people. In the past it may have had to do with their religion requiring them to separate themselves from others. Living amongst others while remaining separate or distant causes resentment, then suspicions and then the blame starts when things get a bit rocky; bad weather, a bad crop, cholera outbreak, misfortune in general. Blame it on the different ones amongst us. It doesn't make sense but then superstition doesn't make sense either.

I didn't know what Jewish meant until I was in high school. That's when I discovered most of my friends were Jewish. They were intelligent and inclusive. Those that I still see today are still intelligent and inclusive even if they are Democrats.

**sabang** · 08-11-2008, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Is it any coincidence that most Jewish Americans are Republicans?

Huh??

Most Jewish Americans are Democrat Tex, and that has been the case for a long time.

However, amongst the Jewish community there is much political diversity, as you might expect. Other than being Jewish, there is little to compare about Noam Chomsky and Richard Perle.

**sabang** · 08-11-2008, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by pickel

Why is any criticism of Israel (which is a country, not a religion) always labeled as anti-semitism? Why is criticism of religions so tolerated, yet any criticism of Judaism is met with horror?

I agree- the 'anti-Semitism' gong is beaten too often, and detracts from serious debate.

Many Jews and Israeli's resent this too.

**sabang** · 08-11-2008, 05:51 AM

Originally Posted by attaboy

I didn't know what Jewish meant until I was in high school.

Pretty much the same with me actually. One day, my best mate came to school with his skull cap (yashmak?) on, and I asked why. He explained it was his bar mitzvah- and explained what that was. Ironically, it was only a few years before that grandmother had confided in me, in rather hushed tones, that my grandfather was Jewish! So good- I have the right to live in Israel.

So my preconceptions of Jewishness, Judaism, Israeliness and all that were delightfully non existent. And how exactly my grandmother, who distrusted the Welsh, and the Jews (and everyone else that wasn't white and English for that matter) ended up marrying a Welsh Jew is just another family puzzle.

**slimboyfat** · 08-11-2008, 06:22 AM

I wouldn't say I hate it. It just gave me nightmares about sharks.

**Sir Burr** · 08-11-2008, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

History.

They got the blame for killing Christ, they were skilled money-lenders in medieval Europe (anyone who's good at taking your money and getting rich off it won't be popular), in relation to their numbers they occupy more positions of influence than many other ethnic groups.

This is true, but, they were barred from doing so many occupations, that all that was left was money lending and trading (these were considered vulgar), or, the arts.

**keda** · 08-11-2008, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by pickel

Originally Posted by Texpat

Who do I support exactly? Please help me wirh that one.... You'll likely be surprised.

Hardcore Zionists by the sounds of it. Interestingly enough I remember reading a poll in Haaretz newspaper that found that a larger percentage of Israelis supported a Palestinian homeland as compared to Americans that did. Can't be arsed to find the link and this isn't issues so have a look yourself.

I'm surprised you'd stoop to reading that Zionist propaganda crap.

**keda** · 08-11-2008, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Sir Burr

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

History.

They got the blame for killing Christ, they were skilled money-lenders in medieval Europe (anyone who's good at taking your money and getting rich off it won't be popular), in relation to their numbers they occupy more positions of influence than many other ethnic groups.

This is true, but, they were barred from doing so many occupations, that all that was left was money lending and trading (these were considered vulgar), or, the arts.

I think without a homeland, and being guests wherever they settled with little to no security of tenure, they were never sure when they would next be shooed on.

Part of survival in this centuries long tradition, would be to create wealth, and excel in whatever they did (or were allowed to do), so that they could contribute to the host nation and its people - a form of tribute to be tolerated longer.

Combined with the Jesus effect and other offerings as above, it isn't difficult to see how envy can set in.

**sabang** · 08-11-2008, 07:35 AM

^ Indeed. Furthermore, Jewishness has survived for ages amongst a multitude of foreign cultures (the diaspora), whilst still maintaining it's identity and not being assimilated into the host culture. The 'seperateness' required to achieve this ethnic and cultural survival probably fed anti-Semitism. How many other cultures that we now just read about in obscure history books were eliminated by assimilation over the generations?

**slimboyfat** · 08-11-2008, 07:39 AM

This thread is not fun at all.

Move it to Issues where the retired and unemployed fellas can argue about the topic properly

**Frankenstein** · 08-11-2008, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by jandajoy

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

They got the blame for killing Christ, they were skilled money-lenders in medieval Europe (anyone who's good at taking your money and getting rich off it won't be popular), in relation to their numbers they occupy more positions of influence than many other ethnic groups. They also retained a unique and separate cultural identity in the middle of otherwise fairly homogenous European societies so I guess people felt threatened.

These statements sound very pat to me. Often stated but they don't really mean much in modern day terms do they?

Tradition is stronger than you might think and in my opinion definitely the main reason why the word 'Jew' gets used in negative contexts, it sure didn't start yesterday.

To draw a parallel, many originally Christian values still remain strong in secularised societies (gender roles, morals etc.).

Xenophobia is more or less a natural defense mechanism, but racism is learned behaviour.

Obviously there are also undercurrent ideologies like nazism that state that the over representation of people of Jewish descent in positions of influence means that they have a conspiracy going, and for that reason they need to be eliminated. The mainstream also partially feeds off of this type of hatred.

**Frankenstein** · 08-11-2008, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by jandajoy

But none of that makes sense.

It makes sense to me and many others here in that many humans don't reflect properly over their actions and attitudes, they just copy their parents and surroundings whether they have first hand experience or not.

Why it doesn't make sense to you I don't know because you fail to argue your point, you just keep asking questions.

So my guess is that either you're whoring to get as many replies in this thread as possible no matter if they're useful or not, or you're trying to start some shit fights to gawk at because you're bored.

Do feel free to prove me wrong by trying to argue your point based on some examples of how you think people think which makes these explanations invalid, and/or how history and tradition do or do not affect the present day.

**jandajoy** · 08-11-2008, 11:20 AM

Franky, to answer your post;
The OP was a question that seriously intrigues me.
I'm reading peoples views with interest, and who knows, some of the stuff here may help me to understand. Then again it may not.

Whilst I accept the relevance of the historical context I find it hard to understand why individuals continue to abhor a race of people, in this day and age, on the basis of history.

Originally Posted by Frankenstein

t makes sense to me and many others here in that many humans don't reflect properly over their actions and attitudes, they just copy their parents and surroundings whether they have first hand experience or not.

This is 100% correct, I agree that this is what many humans do. It's sad isn't it, but what's the answer? Education?

**November Rain** · 08-11-2008, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by wandering

Historians have classified six explanations as to why people hate the Jews: Economic -- "We hate Jews because they possess too much wealth and power." Chosen People -- "We hate Jews because they arrogantly claim that they are the chosen people." Scapegoat -- "Jews are a convenient group to single out and blame for our troubles." Deicide -- "We hate Jews because they killed Jesus." Outsiders, -- "We hate Jews because they are different than us." (The dislike of the unlike.) Racial Theory -- "We hate Jews because they are an inferior race."

Originally Posted by jandajoy

But none of that makes sense.

Irrational hatreds and bigotry don't make sense.
I'm not sure why you're trying to understand it.
For instance - try to understand the hatred that motivates groups like the KKK. I doubt you can. You either feel that hatred & try to justify it to yourself & others, or you don't & can never understand it.
There is nothing to understand, just historical excuses used as justification for whatever hatred may be felt, whether it be racial, gender based, cultural, class based or whatever.
Bigotry cannot be understood, only felt.

**jandajoy** · 08-11-2008, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by November Rain

Irrational hatreds and bigotry don't make sense. I'm not sure why you're trying to understand it.

Because if, and it's a big if I grant you, one could begin to understand it might go some way to dealing with the problem.

**Marmite the Dog** · 08-11-2008, 01:14 PM

I don't understand why people hate Jews.

I don't particularly like Israelis (or English hooligans), and I despise the Israeli government on a par with the outgoing US regime.

Thread: Seriously, why do people seem to hate "Jews"

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