Why Obama will Win

**Carnwadrick** · 29-08-2008, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Texpat

Biden looks too much like McCain. A stodgy, old white-haired guy. I keep thinking that's what BO's trying to run from, and now he's embracing it on stage.

The man of change just sold out to the Washington establishment, Biden has been in the Senate 13 years longer than McCain..methinks it was the Party that picked the VP and not the Messia

Originally Posted by Milkman

Biden, most importantly, has foreign policy experience and 3 decades in Washington. He knows how things work. And also important, is that he is....and older generation, white haired, white guy.

And a failed candidate for president twice

Originally Posted by Norton

He is a skilled debater who uses down to earth language the average Joe can relate with. He is clearly not shy when going on the attack or debunking nonsensical negative attacks.

Certainly not shy about saying what he thinks " Obama is a clean person" says Biden about Obama..a little patronizing uhh

Originally Posted by AntRobertson

Obama's going to have enough trouble selling himself let alone another minority or a woman. It would be the end of his campaign.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by britmaveric

rupert murdoch's new york post.

**sabang** · 29-08-2008, 12:54 PM

This from a Republican reporter, but one that will at least call it as she sees it

:-

Yes, Barack Obama was the best Democrat in the field. Start with his charismatic, yet cool, demeanor. Add his compelling personal story - and the inviting possibility that Obama's ascension to the White House could heal racial wounds in America - and you understand why Democrats at Invesco Field would answer the above question with the familiar chant, "Yes, we can."

McCainiacs can scoff at his celebrity, but Obama can pack a stadium.

I have to credit Obama for not being cowed by the inevitability of Hillary Rodham Clinton and, thanks to his experience as a community organizer, for running a superb ground game.

Most important, Obama opposed the Iraq war vote in 2003 as other Democrats - read: Clinton, running mate Joe Biden, Christopher Dodd and John Edwards - voted to authorize the use of military force, only to show America that they lacked the will to see through what they had started.

Obama's call to the faithful

McCainiacs can indeed scoff all they like, and they will- but it is Obama that can pack the stadium, and bring them to their feet- be it the DNC, or the Brandenburg gate. A bit jealous maybe?

No wonder McSame wants to try and bring him down into Town Halls to debate- but why should Obama swap his Bentley for a Ford pinto? Politics is a combination of nuts and bolts and inspiration. The OBiden team has both. Imho.

Anyway, seems to me the Press coverage of the DNC gets more positive by the day. Kudos to the Clinton team for an, ultimately, gracious concession of defeat and endorsement of Obama. Bills speech was a beauty- the old boys still got what it takes.

**Jet Gorgon** · 29-08-2008, 01:36 PM

Hmmm. Stephen King's The Stand comes to mind.

**sabang** · 29-08-2008, 01:41 PM

From the mouth of "Da Man"-

Democrat Barack Obama appeared on stage today to accept his nomination as the party's presidential candidate, sending a 75,000 capacity crowd wild.
After shouts of his mantra "Yes we can" finally died down, Obama formally accepted the Democratic Party's White House nomination with "profound gratitude and great humility."

Evoking King's 1963 march on Washington, Obama said what "people of every creed and colour, from every walk of life" heard "is that in America, our destiny is inextricably linked, that together our dreams can be one".

"America, we cannot turn back," the 47-year-old Illinois senator said as he vowed to turn back the turmoil of the past eight years and the "failed presidency of George W Bush".

And he tore into his Republican rival John McCain, saying he did not understand the struggles of normal Americans and should stop questioning his patriotism.

"It's not because John McCain doesn't care. It's because John McCain doesn't get it,"
As thousands of supporters waved tiny American flags after being whipped up into a patriotic frenzy by a pageant of patriotic songs, Obama trumpeted: "I've got news for you, John McCain, we all put our country first."

"I get it, I realise that I am not the likeliest candidate for this office, I don't fit the typical pedigree, and I haven't spent my career in the halls of Washington. But I stand before you tonight because all across America, something is stirring. What the nay sayers don't understand is that this election has never been about me, its been about you."

"America, we are better than these eight years, We are a better country than this,"

"We meet at one of those defining moments -- a moment when our nation is at war, our economy is in turmoil, and the American promise has been threatened once more."

from - Obama accepts historic nomination - US Election - smh.com.au

spoken like it is OBi.

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

This from a Republican reporter, but one that will at least call it as she sees it

:-

Obama's call to the faithful

Indeed she does:

Here's another reason Obama is popular: He doesn't tell the American people a single thing they do not want to hear. I take that back: Obama supports allowing illegal immigrants to obtain drivers' licenses. Or at least he did during the primary.

Obama stayed within his party's lines, until the nomination was in the bag. Only then did he decide to reauthorize the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and realize that he might support offshore drilling.

He (Obama) tells people what they want to hear, and the flock at Invesco Field worship him for it.

**sabang** · 29-08-2008, 01:55 PM

^ Heh, told you she was Republican

. She does however fail to mention that Obama voted against the invasion of Iraq, back when that was an unpopular position likely to get you labelled as 'UnAmerkin'.

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

spoken like it is OBi.

Well kind of:

McCain statement on Obama's nomination acceptance speech | EXTRA | Local Breaking News from AZFAMILY.COM & KTVK 3TV - Arizona's Family

BARACK OBAMA'S TOP MISLEADING CLAIMS

MISLEADING CLAIM #1: Barack Obama Can Bring Democrats And Republicans Together. OBAMA: "America, our work will not be easy. The challenges we face require tough choices, and Democrats as well as Republicans will need to cast off the worn-out ideas and politics of the past." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Denver, CO, 8/28/08)

· NPR's Juan Williams: Barack Obama "Doesn't Have The Record" Of Bipartisanship That John McCain Has. NPR'S JUAN WILLIAMS: "You think about everything from campaign finance to immigration and on, and there's John McCain working across party lines. Senator Obama doesn't have a record. Now, he can make the claim and he can hold himself up as pure and trying to reach to a new generation of post partisan politics, but he has to do so largely based on rhetoric and wishful thinking because he doesn't have the record." (Fox News' "Special Report With Brit Hume," 5/7/08)

Many, many more examples of how Obama has not worked to bring the blue team and the red team together in the linky.

MISLEADING CLAIM #2: Barack Obama Will Ensure That Our Troops On The Ground Have "The Equipment They Need In Battle." OBAMA: "As Commander-in-Chief, I will never hesitate to defend this nation, but I will only send our troops into harm's way with a clear mission and a sacred commitment to give them the equipment they need in battle and the care and benefits they deserve when they come home." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Denver, CO, 8/28/08)
· Barack Obama Voted Against Providing $94.4 Billion In Critical Funding For The Troops In Iraq And Afghanistan. (H.R. 2206, CQ Vote #181: Passed 80-14: R 42-3; D 37-10; I 1-1, 5/24/07, Obama Voted Nay)

MISLEADING CLAIM #3: Barack Obama Has Not Supported The President. OBAMA: "These challenges are not all of government's making. But the failure to respond is a direct result of a broken politics in Washington and the failed policies of George W. Bush. ... But the record's clear: John McCain has voted with George Bush ninety percent of the time. Senator McCain likes to talk about judgment, but really, what does it say about your judgment when you think George Bush has been right more than ninety percent of the time? I don't know about you, but I'm not ready to take a ten percent chance on change." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Denver, CO, 8/28/08)

· Barack Obama Says He Voted With President Bush "For The Most Part." REPORTER: "For a couple of days, they've been saying you voted to raise taxes something like 94 times. That seems to be the drumbeat that's going to happen during this campaign. Are you going to raise taxes in a big way for average Americans?" OBAMA: "I mean this is the standard fare of politics. And the truth of the matter is that the only bills that I voted for, for the most part, since I've been in the Senate were introduced by Republicans with George Bush. You know, they were the majority for a big chunk of the time I was there." (KMOV [St. Louis, MO], 6/10/08)

Much more support in regard how claim #3 is false in the linky.

MISLEADING CLAIM #4: John McCain Believes We've Made "Great Progress" And Families Aren't Hurting. OBAMA: "He said that our economy has made 'great progress' under this President. He said that the fundamentals of the e conomy are strong." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Denver, CO, 8/28/08)

· FactCheck.org: Obama Use Of Quote Is "Misleading" And "Distorts" John McCain's Words. "The second and third quotes the Obama campaign uses from McCain are more misleading. The ad shows McCain saying: '[T]here's been great progress economically.' The quote comes from an interview McCain did with Peter Cook at Bloomberg Television in April. ... McCain was making a case for what he believed were positive economic developments during Bush's time in office. However, the fuller quote shows McCain was saying that whatever progress had been made, it wouldn't be enough to comfort families 'facing these tremendous economic challenges.' His comments overall are pessimistic; he cites 'challenging times' and 'enormous difficulties.' The Obama campaign distorts his views by using just a snippet of his remarks." (D'Angelo Gore, "Distorting McCain's Remarks," FactCheck.org, 8/19/08)

More on claim #4 in the linky.

MISLEADING CLAIM #5: Barack Obama Will Pay For His Massive Spending Increase. OBAMA: "Now, many of these plans will cost money, which is why I've laid out how I'll pay for every dime -- by closing corporate loopholes and tax havens that don't help America grow. But I will also go through the federal budget, line by line, eliminating programs that no longer work and making the ones we do need work better and cost less -- because we cannot meet twenty-first century challenges with a twentieth century bureaucracy." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Denver, CO, 8/28/08)

· Barack Obama: "I Do Not Make A Promise That We Can Reduce [The Budget Deficit] By 2013." "'I do not make a promise that we can reduce it by 2013 because I think it is important for us to make some critical investments right now in America's families,' Obama told reporters this week when asked if he'd match McCain's pledge." (Nedra Pickler, "Analysis: Obama Won't Try For McCain's Budget Goal," The Associated Press, 7/8/08)

· Chicago Tribune: Barack Obama Has "No Interest In Eliminating Deficit Spending." "Since winning the nomination, Obama reportedly has been moving toward the middle of the political spectrum. But on the budget, he still sounds left of center, with no interest in eliminating deficit spending." (Editorial, "Failure Of Nerve," Chicago Tribune, 7/8/08)

Much more on claim #5 in the linky.

MISLEADING CLAIM #6: Under Barack Obama, We Will Achieve Energy Independence. OBAMA: "And for the sake of our economy, our security, and the future of our planet, I will set a clear goal as President: in ten years, we will finally end our dependence on oil from the Middle East." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Denver, CO, 8/28/08)

· The Detroit News: Barack Obama's Energy Plan Will "Do Nothing To Answer The Nation's Long-Term Needs." "The latest additions to Sen. Barack Obama's energy plan, outlined during an appearance in Lansing Monday, may win the Democratic presidential candidate some votes from disgruntled consumers in November, but they'll do nothing to answer the nation's long-term needs." (Editorial, "Obama's Energy Plan Is Fueled By Populism," The Detroit News, 8/5/08)

This one is probably one of my biggest issues with Obama. Saying that he will make it a clear goal to in ten years end our dependence on oil from the Middle East mean nothing to me. IMHO there are not enough viable alternatives presented by Obama to wean the US off middle east oil in 10 years - especially when he is against offshore drilling and nuclear.

Again more on why claim #6 is misleading in the linky.

MISLEADING CLAIM #7: Barack Obama Will Cut Taxes. OBAMA: "I will eliminate capital gains taxes for the small businesses and the start-ups that will create the high-wage, high-tech jobs of tomorrow. I will cut taxes -- cut taxes -- for 95% of all working families." (Barack Obama, Remarks, Denver, CO, 8/28/08)

· Barack Obama Voted Twice In Favor Of The Democrats' FY 2009 Budget Resolution. (S. Con. Res. 70, CQ Vote #85: Adopted 51-44: R 2-43; D 47-1; I 2-0, 3/14/08, Obama Voted Yea; S. Con. Res. 70, CQ Vote #142: Adopted 48- 45: R 2- 44; D 44- 1; I 2-0, 6/4/08, Obama Voted Yea)

More in the linky, but I am not so sold on this being a misleading claim. Most of the support for this being misleading is based on his past voting record - which has validity. What he says now seems to go against what he has voted to support in the past. I'm willing to give him the benifit of the doubt on this one.

I just watched the entire Obama speech again on CNN - caught about the last half this morning. For Obama and where he is now it was a good speech, as it relates to the blue team. Certianly no much in it that will impress those in the red camp. But the real key, which should become clear in the 24-48 hours is how it was viewed by those undecideds.

The good thing for Obama at this stage is that most of the press coverage certainly is giving him good press right now.

**Jet Gorgon** · 29-08-2008, 02:26 PM

Where did this BO sister come from?

**sabang** · 29-08-2008, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Bugs

Saying that he will make it a clear goal to in ten years end our dependence on oil from the Middle East mean nothing to me

That might be easier than you think [read my lips and all that]. You see, much more US oil comes from Venezula than the ME. Cut consumption 25%, and you've weaned yourself off ME oil. So a little but of political doublespeak from slick Barry there.

But more importantly- where is Mccains 'Vision', what direction and inspiration does he provide? Oh, thats right- McSame.

What has he got, besides doubt casting and negative campaigning?

More of the same, better than something new. After the last eight years, that don't sound like much to this outsider. Guess we'll have to wait for the RNC though.

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by sabang

But more importantly- where is Mccains 'Vision', what direction and inspiration does he provide? Oh, thats right- McSame.

What has he got, besides doubt casting and negative campaigning?

More of the same, better than something new. After the last eight years, that don't sound like much to this outsider. Guess we'll have to wait for the RNC though.

Not sure where you get the mcsame banner as it relates to energy for McCain. He is hardly walking hand-in-hand with Bush as it relates to energy. Besides for the last two years the blue team has not exactly been a driving forcing in changing the energy policy in the US (with the exception of the 2007 Energy and Independence and Security Act, which ended up getting so watered down that the bills original sponsor actually voted against it – about the only thing the bill did do was raise CAFÉ standards – granted the red team was a big part of the problem, but the blue team lacked the backbone to get it done as well).

McCain has his Lexington Project that incorporates multiple ways to attack the energy issue –
John McCain 2008 - John McCain for President

Expand domestic exploration and production
Reform transportation sector
Invest in alternative energy (including clean coal, and nuclear)
Promote energy efficiency
Address speculative oil issues
Energy policy must include solid environmental foundation

Most of such a policy would make GWB turn green in the face.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bugs

Not sure where you get the mcsame banner as it relates to energy for McCain.

maybe it's because mcsame flip-flopped (again) and came out in favor of offshore drilling

and let's be clear about how he earned the mcsame moniker.....few would doubt that the biggest issues for voters this election year are:

the economy
iraq
health care

mcsame and the bush white house are in lock step on these issues.....however,k feel free to show how mcsame has markedly different agenda.

and let's also not forget that bush voted with bush's white house 95% of the time

Q:Is it true John McCain voted with George Bush 95 percent of the time?
A: Yes, it's true, according to Congressional Quarterly's assessment of McCain's voting record.Sen. Barack Obama has attempted to use the Arizona senator's voting record against him in statements like this:

Barack Obama (June 3): It's not change when John McCain decided to stand with George Bush 95 percent of the time, as he did in the Senate last year.

The claim is true. According to Congressional Quarterly's Voting Studies, in 2007 McCain voted in line with the president's position 95 percent of the time – the highest percentage rate for McCain since Bush took office – and voted in line with his party 90 percent of the time.

FactCheck.org: Is it true John McCain voted with George Bush 95 percent of the time?

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 03:17 PM

This post is not typical of what I post, but I must say that I did find Obama's demeanor to be a bit too much on the angry side - this might have worked for him with most, but it was not really appealing to me.

A linky from a righty bloggy for more pics:
The Angry Barack Obama Acceptance Speech

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bugs

This post is not typical of what I post

really?
i guess you must post a lot on other boards.

Originally Posted by Bugs

but it was not really appealing to me.

you've already made it clear (both in tone and in words) that you support mccain and will take every opportunity to tear obama down....so why should anyone here be surprised that the speech wasn't 'appealing' to you. you're an ideologue who never would have been open to what obama had to say, so why should he care that you didn't find it 'appealing'.

he was speaking over, through and around you.

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Bugs

This post is not typical of what I post

really?
i guess you must post a lot on other boards.

Yea, really. Most of what I post is not just surface posh. And commenting on Obama's general look or demeanor is not typical of what I post.

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Bugs

but it was not really appealing to me.

you've already made it clear (both in tone and in words) that you support mccain and will take every opportunity to tear obama down....so why should anyone here be surprised that the speech wasn't 'appealing' to you. you're an ideologue who never would have been open to what obama had to say, so why should he care that you didn't find it 'appealing'.

he was speaking over, through and around you.

You're pretty rich. From your postings on this board you are about as open to views other than yours as Boo Me is. And typical of most of your post you show very little substance in what you post.

While it is true I certainly lean towards the right side on the political spectrum, and I have not hidden my support for McCain. Hardly everything that I post is negative of Obama.

The reason I have not been open to most of what Obama has had to say is because I don't believe in much of his message.

Why should he care what I find appealing? Simple I have voted for folks from different parties in the past and I am open to voting for different parties in the future. Granted at this stage in the game in this election it's not likely that I would change who I support.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Bugs

Hardly everything that I post is negative of Obama.

'hardly'.

really? needless to say, i think you and i have a very different understanding of 'hardly'.

but let me ask you...what percentage of your posts on the general election have been positive about obama and his campaign?
what percentage of the articles you have linked to have been positive about obama and his campaign?
rough percentages will be fine.

Originally Posted by Bugs

Why should he care what I find appealing? Simple I have voted for folks from different parties in the past and I am open to voting for different parties in the future.

let's get back to those percentages......you aren't going to vote for obama, and you were never going to vote for him. why would he waste his time trying to address the type of person who would spend hours of his life spreading negative information about him on an internet forum.

obama was speaking to democrats and real independents (not just those who are too embarrassed in 2008 to admit they're republicans) people who might be open to his message.....and as we both know, that doesn't include you.

**Bugs** · 29-08-2008, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Bugs

Hardly everything that I post is negative of Obama.

'hardly'.

really? needless to say, i think you and i have a very different understanding of 'hardly'.

but let me ask you...what percentage of your posts on the general election have been positive about obama and his campaign?
what percentage of the articles you have linked to have been positive about obama and his campaign?
rough percentages will be fine.

Rough percentages - maybe 5%.

But when I link or quote something that I think is over the top, I generally say so. Unless I think the entire link/quote is over the top and I am just posting to wind up.

Originally Posted by raycarey

Originally Posted by Bugs

Why should he care what I find appealing? Simple I have voted for folks from different parties in the past and I am open to voting for different parties in the future.

let's get back to those percentages......you aren't going to vote for obama, and you were never going to vote for him. why would he waste his time trying to address the type of person who would spend hours of his life spreading negative information about him on an internet forum.

obama was speaking to democrats and real independents (not just those who are too embarrassed in 2008 to admit they're republicans) people who might be open to his message.....and as we both know, that doesn't include you.

I would not say that I was never going to vote for him. Indeed it would be very unlikely that I would have voted for the blue team. And I know that the Obama speech was not geared towards me, hence my comment in my "angry" post about "this might have worked for him with most,".

When getting down to the party nitty gritty I do not consider myself a Republican. Mainly because I think the Republican party of today has lost touch with what I consider to be the core of things – small government, more personal freedom, and less taxes.

The Republican party of today has not kept to these principles, and thus I don’t consider myself to be part of the party.

Not believing in god, being a very strong supporter of separation of church and state, and my views (albeit not strong views) on abortion, don’t hold me in good steed with most Republicans. Fortunately for me I have a strong belief that the US Constitution will withstand any battering the red team might be able to dish out on these issues. On the up side I am very strong supporter of the individuals right to keep and bear arms so I do have something to talk about on that side of things with other members of the red team.

That being said my views generally line up more with the red team than the blue team, there is no doubt about that.

**Norton** · 29-08-2008, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Jet Gorgon

Stephen King's The Stand comes to mind.

Custer's Last Stand is a more appropriate description of what the Republican's must be thinking after viewing the Dem convention.

Their hope the Dems would be split are clearly dashed. Their hope the Dems would fail to make the case McCain's policies are more of the same as GWB's are dashed. Their ability to characterize Obama as unloyal or elitists will no longer be listened to. The hope they would have an opponent unwilling to strike back when faced with the same same Republican negative campaign tactics are gone. The hope Obama would not take on security threats against the US is fiction. Any hope they had regarding Obama's ability to inspire and bring new Democart's to the polls is certainly gone.

The last hope, convincing voters Obama is not ready to lead is all the Republicans have left. So to quote Obama when referring to debating this issue "bring it on".

I'll watch the Rep Convention with great interest to see if they can be as effective as the Dems were. They will need one hell of an effort to counter what can only be graded as an A+ effort for the Dems.

**Norton** · 29-08-2008, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bugs

While it is true I certainly lean towards the right side on the political spectrum, and I have not hidden my support for McCain. Hardly everything that I post is negative of Obama.

Originally Posted by Bugs

I’ll give the blue team some credit for the convention, each day they got better, and better. I did not see all of the Obama speech, but what I saw was pretty good.

I think you do give credit to the Dems. Reluctantly but none the less credit is given.

Believe it or not, I too lean toward the conservative side. This does not prevent me from seeing drastic changes are needed in the way the US conducts business both domestically and internationally in today's world. I have nothing against McCain or even some of his policies. As with me, McCain is a product of the cold war and as such his approach to the challenges faced by the country, a world much changed since the wall came down, are obsolete.

Obama though his ability to inspire, bring people together and articulate a positive vision represents the type of leader needed to move the country to a profoundly different way of governing and setting policy. McCain does not.

Will Obama be able to make all the changes needed. Probably not all but if he is successful in only a few it will set the stage for the next President be they Republican or Democrat to continue change in the right direction.

Those who fear change or think the country is just perfect will vote for McCain and try to bring Obama down by stating he will be the ruin of the country.

**britmaveric** · 29-08-2008, 08:42 PM

Obama will ruin the country he's OCarter reincarnated.

**raycarey** · 29-08-2008, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Norton

Those who fear change or think the country is just perfect will vote for McCain and try to bring Obama down by stating he will be the ruin of the country.

45 minutes later....

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Obama will ruin the country

**barbaro** · 29-08-2008, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by britmaveric

Obama will ruin the country he's OCarter reincarnated.

You don't follow US national politics, do you, Brit?

You make general statements - but rarely any specifics. You often don't post links and/or authors or sources.

Try to contribute a bit better.

I, and others here, do not understand your link of Carter, who you labeled, "Ocarter" of 30ish years ago and the political climate of today.

**sabang** · 29-08-2008, 11:38 PM

Brit, you crack me up Mate.

I'll green yer if I can.

**Texpat** · 30-08-2008, 10:33 AM

Bugs, there is no middle ground with RC. You're either with him or against him. You're a marked man now and he's started an entry on you in his journal.

You are now a dyed-in-the-wool, hardcore, right-wing Republican. (is there any other kind?)

You're a racist too.

Welcome to the club.

**AntRobertson** · 30-08-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Texpat

You are now a dyed-in-the-wool, hardcore, right-wing Republican. (is there any other kind?)

You're a racist too.

Welcome to the club.

If the cap fits...

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