Thread: Hamas Attack, breakout from Gaza many rockets fired

a heated "discussion" on a piers morgan show between 2 islamist loons and the no nonsense douglas murray that soon turns into a blistering shitfight.

should be in the "teak door shitfights, the best of" thread.

Originally Posted by taxexile

a heated "discussion" on a piers morgan show between 2 islamist loons and the no nonsense douglas murray that soon turns into a blistering shitfight.

It is best to skip the first half of the video, as the two islamist clowns are simply spewing garbage. Douglas Murry smashes them, it really is not much of a shitfight, but rather a display of logical reality by Murray.

So fitting...

Where are the Arab/Muslim/Islamic cowards?

At home terrorizing their wife's and daughters?

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Based on what?

IMO, all civilians have a right to life. Even if the Palestinians/ a Palestinian/ a % of the Palestinian populous support Hamas and cheer on/fund murderous activities (I'm not saying they do, I'm just setting up an hypothetical for the next clause), their lives still deserve to be protected and should not be considered "collateral damage".

Western democracies, like Israel is in part, should set higher standards than the likes of Hamas - part of that standard is protecting civilian lives (no matter the politics of the civilians).

I don't have an answer of what to do to Hamas; considering their stated aim is to kill all non-Muslims (and many Muslims too...). But, I do not think it's acceptable to kill two civilians (or even one) for every one Hamas "fighter" killed - these are the Israeli military figures.

But, you keep thinking whatever you like...

Democracy is a beautiful word! Based on what?

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Democracy moved beyond feudal, monarchy, warlords and tribal systems to a more representational and inclusive system. Israel is a type of Democracy. Hamas is a group of "warlords".

A type of "democracy" ?

El Salvador ?

Like Apartheid South Africa ?

Or Switcherland before 1970 ?

Name it yourself , tosser !

Stick to posting up goats

You are one disturbed young man

Originally Posted by helge

A type of "democracy" ?

Thailand certainly falls into that category.

Originally Posted by Norton

Thailand certainly falls into that category.

Evil tongues would add "a type of "Warlords" ".

Wonder if the street sweeper employed b y the "Hamas Administration" is labeled .."Hamas" ?

The Ipswich oracle might know

Got kids, Betty ?

Originally Posted by helge

Got kids, Betty ?

Woff, woff

Yes
Nasty...and intended.

Let him answer

Let's hear from BSnub and Tax also, I see a pattern

Helge, you've lost the plot - what's wrong with you???

You're on my ignore list now anyways, so goodbye. Your trollistic and insulting diatribe isn't worth viewing. You don't read what people say, or think, you just produce your own narrative regardless. It's not a discussion, it's trolling. Over the last few months, you've become one of the worst posters on the board across all threads. Sincerely, I hope your life is ok, and whatever you're going through improves.

Originally Posted by Bettyboo

Helge, you've lost the plot - what's wrong with you???

Good question.

Israeli hostages mistakenly killed by IDF in Gaza were holding makeshift white flag, officials say


An Israeli hostage was waving a makeshift white flag and another called for help in Hebrew when they were shot dead by Israeli soldiers in Gaza who “mistook them for militants”, a military official has said.

According to a preliminary investigation, three male hostages, all shirtless, appeared in Shejaiya in northern Gaza, holding a long stick with white fabric attached to it.

A soldier nearby opened fire, the military said, hitting two hostages while the third, who was wounded, managed to escape to a nearby building where other troops heard him crying for help in Hebrew. He was killed by a second soldier before a commander, concerned by the incident, issued a ceasefire order.

The Israeli military official said that they believed that the hostages – who were named by the military as Samer Fuad El-Talalka, Yotam Haim and Alon Shamriz – had either been let go or had escaped.

Calling the killing of the three hostages “horrific and tragic” the Israeli military official told reporters that what happened was against the Israeli military’s rules of engagement. However, rights groups have said it is almost certainly a violation of international law.



Hostages were holding white cloth on stick when Israeli forces shot them dead, IDF says | World News | Sky News

very strange. held hostage for 2 months and then shot and killed just as they found freedom. the fog of war and all that. wonder what actually led to it.

Originally Posted by taxexile

very strange. held hostage for 2 months and then shot and killed just as they found freedom. the fog of war and all that. wonder what actually led to it.

Something to do with it being a type of democracy with a bunch of warlords doing there own thing I've heard.

The history of the Middle East has been so complex that my eyes have always glazed over whenever it has been mentioned. Every time you look at it and think you have come to a conclusion, someone mentions something which opens up another historical or other dimension to it.

But let's simplify for a moment : Israel has for many years pushed back Palestinians further and further, taking away their rights, land that had been held by them for generations, and pushed them into a state of apartheid. Constantly. They live in a pretty shit place and a shit environment.
Now the recent actions of Hamas were horrific and inexcusable, but could it not be said that Israel pushed them to that point ?

Originally Posted by Norton

Thailand certainly falls into that category.

And, how about the US?

Originally Posted by spliff

And, how about the US?

Them too, along with most democracies that don't really put people in power based on the majority of the population.

19 Dec, 2023 01:05
HomeWorld News

Pentagon launches operation to protect ‘prosperity’

A US-led coalition has come together to respond to Houthi rebel attacks that have disrupted shipping traffic through the Red Sea

"US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin announced the coalition’s initiative on Monday, saying Operation Prosperity Guardian would work to ensure freedom of navigation through the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden. “This is an international challenge that demands collective action,” he said in a statement, adding that the group would bolster “regional security and prosperity.”


"The Houthis have defended their strikes as justified retaliation for “the oppression of the Palestinian people.” They have vowed to “prevent the passage” of any ship headed to Israel or otherwise connected to the country, saying such vessels are legitimate targets as long as West Jerusalem carries out “ugly crimes … against our brothers in Gaza and the West Bank.”

Pentagon launches operation to protect ‘prosperity’ — RT World News

It appears that the coalition members are supporting Israeli's ability to continue their deemed illegal, except by NaGaStan, war on the Palestinian men woman and children.

It appears that some believe their ‘prosperity’ takes presidence on human life.

Originally Posted by Norton

Them too, along with most democracies that don't really put people in power based on the majority of the population.

Tell me about it....Biden never won that election.

Ben Wallace is wrong: Israel's tactics are the only way to crush Hamas.

The former Defence Secretary misunderstands the situation on the ground and the military realities the IDF faces

RICHARD KEMP
18 December 2023 • 4:43pm
Richard Kemp

In his Telegraph article today, Ben Wallace repeatedly misunderstands the situation in Gaza.

To accuse Israel of “a killing rage” and “indiscriminate” assaults is untrue and unfair to an army that surpasses all others in its ability to attack an enemy while doing everything possible to minimise civilian casualties. As General Martin Dempsey, the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, said a few years ago: “Israel went to extraordinary lengths to limit collateral damage and civilian casualties. In fact, we sent a team of senior officers to get the lessons from the measures they took to prevent civilian casualties”.

I have been in Israel and in the Gaza Strip since this war began, and I know that the measures Israel took back then are the measures they are taking now; except they have been improved on by further battlefield experience in the intervening years.

Despite that, yes, many innocent civilians have been tragically killed. But Hamas plans all of its operations with one overriding aim: to force Israel to kill civilians in Gaza. That is an even higher priority for them than actually killing IDF soldiers and civilians, because it achieves their objective of delegitimising, vilifying and isolating Israel among the world community.

Wallace accuses the IDF of breaking the Geneva Conventions, using disproportionate force, collective punishment and forced movement of civilians. How can he know whether or not the force Israel uses is disproportionate?


Proportionality has a specific definition in the Geneva Conventions. It means that an attack may only be carried out if the expected harm to civilians is not excessive in relation to the expected military advantage. How is he in a position to judge that? Perhaps he is thinking about the civilian to combatant casualty ratio, in which Israel has a better track record than most other armies in the world – but that statistic is impossible for him to know. Unless of course he is working on Hamas figures, which are likely to be inflated, take no account of the many Palestinian civilian deaths they themselves have inflicted, and make no distinction between civilian and combatant deaths.

Where too is evidence of collective punishment? If military operations that bring death, suffering and destruction on civilians is collective punishment, then that applies to virtually every war that has ever been fought. If he means denying or restricting supply of commodities needed by civilians, but likely to be used by enemy forces, then that is permissible under the laws of war.

The idea that Israel is somehow breaking the Conventions by forced movement of civilians is also incorrect. Under the laws of war combatants on both sides are required, where possible, to warn civilians of an impending attack and take whatever steps they can to move them to safety or relative safety. Where Israel has planned to launch attacks, it has followed its obligations by warning civilians to leave. Hamas has done the opposite, giving no warning of attacks that endanger civilians and sometimes forcing them to remain in place in the face of an IDF attack.

According to Wallace “Israel needs to recognise it has time on its side”. It does not. Hamas has continued to fire missiles at Israeli civilians since the start. There was at least one barrage from Gaza today, and a few days ago Jerusalem itself came under fire. Rocket launches have only diminished in volume as the IDF has closed in. Although the Iron Dome missile defence system is highly effective, every single rocket fired out of Gaza will potentially kill or maim Israeli civilians.

And do the thousands of internally displaced Israeli citizens fleeing Hamas’s terror have time on their side? It is the Israeli government’s duty to protect them and create the necessary security for them to return to their homes in safety.

That Wallace should accuse Israel of “playing footsie with Putin, while Russian money fuelled the Iranian rocket and drone industry” is misinformed. Israel has been navigating some of the most treacherous diplomatic waters with Moscow whose forces are deployed in Syria, to deconflict IDF air operations against Iranian proxies that have been trying to build a base of attack against Israel from inside that country.

Ultimately, whilst quick to criticise the IDF, Wallace offers no alternative solutions for eliminating the existential threat from Hamas. He does seem to suggest that Israel should take some kind of lessons from Northern Ireland. The reality is that the two situations couldn’t be further apart. And he misunderstands the way the Troubles were brought to an end. It did not happen, as he says, because “Nationalists recognised that the IRA didn’t have its wellbeing and economic interests at heart”, but because of military force combined with the almost total intelligence penetration of the terrorist networks. Regardless, the West did not adopt his definition of the Northern Ireland approach to destroying ISIS.

Israel must be allowed to defend itself with whatever military force is necessary. It simply has no other choice.

Colonel Richard Kemp is a former British Army officer

Ben Wallace is wrong: Israel's tactics are the only way to crush Hamas.

The former Defence Secretary misunderstands the situation on the ground and the military realities the IDF faces

RICHARD KEMP
18 December 2023 • 4:43pm
Richard Kemp

In his Telegraph article today, Ben Wallace repeatedly misunderstands the situation in Gaza.

To accuse Israel of “a killing rage” and “indiscriminate” assaults is untrue and unfair to an army that surpasses all others in its ability to attack an enemy while doing everything possible to minimise civilian casualties. As General Martin Dempsey, the Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, said a few years ago: “Israel went to extraordinary lengths to limit collateral damage and civilian casualties. In fact, we sent a team of senior officers to get the lessons from the measures they took to prevent civilian casualties”.

I have been in Israel and in the Gaza Strip since this war began, and I know that the measures Israel took back then are the measures they are taking now; except they have been improved on by further battlefield experience in the intervening years.

Despite that, yes, many innocent civilians have been tragically killed. But Hamas plans all of its operations with one overriding aim: to force Israel to kill civilians in Gaza. That is an even higher priority for them than actually killing IDF soldiers and civilians, because it achieves their objective of delegitimising, vilifying and isolating Israel among the world community.

Wallace accuses the IDF of breaking the Geneva Conventions, using disproportionate force, collective punishment and forced movement of civilians. How can he know whether or not the force Israel uses is disproportionate?


Proportionality has a specific definition in the Geneva Conventions. It means that an attack may only be carried out if the expected harm to civilians is not excessive in relation to the expected military advantage. How is he in a position to judge that? Perhaps he is thinking about the civilian to combatant casualty ratio, in which Israel has a better track record than most other armies in the world – but that statistic is impossible for him to know. Unless of course he is working on Hamas figures, which are likely to be inflated, take no account of the many Palestinian civilian deaths they themselves have inflicted, and make no distinction between civilian and combatant deaths.

Where too is evidence of collective punishment? If military operations that bring death, suffering and destruction on civilians is collective punishment, then that applies to virtually every war that has ever been fought. If he means denying or restricting supply of commodities needed by civilians, but likely to be used by enemy forces, then that is permissible under the laws of war.

The idea that Israel is somehow breaking the Conventions by forced movement of civilians is also incorrect. Under the laws of war combatants on both sides are required, where possible, to warn civilians of an impending attack and take whatever steps they can to move them to safety or relative safety. Where Israel has planned to launch attacks, it has followed its obligations by warning civilians to leave. Hamas has done the opposite, giving no warning of attacks that endanger civilians and sometimes forcing them to remain in place in the face of an IDF attack.

According to Wallace “Israel needs to recognise it has time on its side”. It does not. Hamas has continued to fire missiles at Israeli civilians since the start. There was at least one barrage from Gaza today, and a few days ago Jerusalem itself came under fire. Rocket launches have only diminished in volume as the IDF has closed in. Although the Iron Dome missile defence system is highly effective, every single rocket fired out of Gaza will potentially kill or maim Israeli civilians.

And do the thousands of internally displaced Israeli citizens fleeing Hamas’s terror have time on their side? It is the Israeli government’s duty to protect them and create the necessary security for them to return to their homes in safety.

That Wallace should accuse Israel of “playing footsie with Putin, while Russian money fuelled the Iranian rocket and drone industry” is misinformed. Israel has been navigating some of the most treacherous diplomatic waters with Moscow whose forces are deployed in Syria, to deconflict IDF air operations against Iranian proxies that have been trying to build a base of attack against Israel from inside that country.

Ultimately, whilst quick to criticise the IDF, Wallace offers no alternative solutions for eliminating the existential threat from Hamas. He does seem to suggest that Israel should take some kind of lessons from Northern Ireland. The reality is that the two situations couldn’t be further apart. And he misunderstands the way the Troubles were brought to an end. It did not happen, as he says, because “Nationalists recognised that the IRA didn’t have its wellbeing and economic interests at heart”, but because of military force combined with the almost total intelligence penetration of the terrorist networks. Regardless, the West did not adopt his definition of the Northern Ireland approach to destroying ISIS.

Israel must be allowed to defend itself with whatever military force is necessary. It simply has no other choice.

Colonel Richard Kemp is a former British Army officer

cant argue with that can you.

Originally Posted by taxexile

Israel's tactics are the only way to crush Hamas.

100%. Also, the casualty numbers being pushed by the news media and the UN are lies propagated by HAMAS themselves. The terrorists have a bully pulpit to push lies, this would be unimaginable twenty years ago.