Thread: A guaranteed basic income for all

"UBI"? Isn't it what some lucky ones get the SNAPs (food Stamps)?

Originally Posted by Klondyke

"UBI"? Isn't it what some lucky ones get the SNAPs (food Stamps)?

It's what Alaskans get from the Alaskan Permanent Fund and have done since the early 80s.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

I read that the wealth of the top 2% can end world hunger seven times over

Try the top .001 %

Originally Posted by bsnub

Try the top .001 %

How much food does Jeff bezos need? how many shirts? how many cars? houses ? etc let him have 100 times more than the average person, it should still be motivation to take risks be creative work hard be an entrepreneur.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

It's what Alaskans get from the Alaskan Permanent Fund and have done since the early 80s.

Alaskans get a dividend for the exploitation of their wealth,why should the rest of the country be any different?

anyway, UBI is a concept that is inevitable, otherwise our civilisation would be unsustainable, the only question is , what form it will take.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

How much food does Jeff bezos need? how many shirts? how many cars? houses ?

I worked for Amazon. It was the most toxic workplace I have ever been in. For those of us who worked here at the main office in Seattle it was well known that he is a libertarian and Amazon is one company that does not participate in philanthropy in the local area unlike almost all of the other major corps here. Getting anything out of him is like squeezing blood from a turnip. Many of these oligarchs are a cancer who would love to see all the rest of us living in work camps and beholden to the company store.

Originally Posted by bsnub

I worked for Amazon. It was the most toxic workplace I have ever been in. For those of us who worked here at the main office in Seattle it was well known that he is a libertarian and Amazon is one company that does not participate in philanthropy in the local area unlike almost all of the other major corps here. Getting anything out of him is like squeezing blood from a turnip. Many of these oligarchs are a cancer who would love to see all the rest of us living in work camps and beholden to the company store.

Jeff Bezos before and after

He used to be the Old and the curious , Now he is the fast and the furious LOL
I think hr has being watching too many Vince Diesel movies.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

Just transfer enough money to everyone, every month, to guarantee a basic livelihood.

Easily done when "money" is already created out of thin air...

“The process by which money is created is so simple the mind is repelled.”—John Kenneth Galbraith


Someone, eventually, will pay the piper.

Originally Posted by SKkin

Easily done when "money" is already created out of thin air...

It is not very expensive on the larger scale the US spends far more on its military industrial complex.

Our poor, struggling military-industrial complex: How will it survive on $750 billion?


https://www.salon.com/2018/12/23/our...n-750-billion/

Originally Posted by SKkin

Someone, eventually, will pay the piper.

Once again your right wing roots are exposed. There is plenty of money it is just being spent on the wrong things.

I have to say you drive a truck for a living. You will be faced with automation within ten years or less.

Originally Posted by SKkin

Easily done when "money" is already created out of thin air...

The money is already there, it is simply being hoarded by the top 1%
I know the argument, the risk takes should be rewarded for sticking their neck out, and I agree.
but how much reward is needed for someone to take a risk?
Would being 100 times more wealthy than someone who does not take a risk induce someone to take a risk?
Then we have industry, they implement automation to increase profits!
Do we agree on that?
Why cant some of the profits be redirected to keep the cow they are milking healthy and giving milk .
It is to the advantage of every farmer to have a healthy cow.
Do we agree on that?
Come on guys, it is a simple concept.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

Come on guys, it is a simple concept

I think that one of the issues many people have is that they believe UBI would be equal in amount to a salary. In fact all the UBI schemes I've seen propose the smallest amount of money that would allow people some day-to-day security.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

I think that one of the issues many people have is that they believe UBI would be equal in amount to a salary. In fact all the UBI schemes I've seen propose the smallest amount of money that would allow people some day-to-day security.

It makes sense, both financially, and equitably.
What would induce people to try for more if more was given free to them.
and it would make financial sense because by giving the minimum required, it allows you to help more people.
Industry and consumer is a symbiotic relationship, a balance needs to be found so that both parties remain healthy. We must agree that both parties are not healthy now, and will automation the worker will become even more stressed.

Money wont run out as it's just created by the push of a button, will be a cashless society before long and if governments wanted a universal income backed by nothing that's what they will do, no need to even run the printing presses 24/7.

Originally Posted by Boon Mee

But what happens when the money is all in the pockets of the top 1% and 99% of the population has no jobs and no money?

Fify!

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Money wont run out as it's just created by the push of a button, will be a cashless society before long and if governments wanted a universal income backed by nothing that's what they will do, no need to even run the printing presses 24/7.

How many times and how may different ways do I need to say the same thing
increased productivity and decreased labor costs creates wealth.

Let me put forward the following ridiculous scenario where wealth is created without having to print money that has no value. Just to make a point. Please dont argue , where is the borrower going to get the money to pay the interest if all the money in the world are $100.00 I have over simplified this example for the purpose of expediency.
let's say all the money in the world are $100.00 and all the money in the world are borrowed by one person at 10% interest per year, a year later he has to pay back the loan plus interest.
All the money in the world are now $110.00
Debt increases the money supply.

I do believe you are starting to understand the magic of banking. Create money out of thin air to lend to people who then pay it back plus interest with real earned money.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

I do believe you are starting to understand the magic of banking. Create money out of thin air to lend to people who then pay it back plus interest with real earned money.

It is not thin air , it is value added interest. The borrower had something of value and was willing to part with it for the privilege of gaining use of the borrowed funds,What he borrowed was of a particular substance
and what he paid was what he borrowed plus something that had 10% the substance of what he borrowed. Thin air is of no substance unless it was a desirable commodity.

Watch Godfrey Bloom speech at the European parliament on YouTube had tens of millions of views so easy to find, he explains it better than I could ever hope to. Then you will truly understand the magic of banking.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Watch Godfrey Bloom speech at the European parliament on YouTube had tens of millions of views so easy to find, he explains it better than I could ever hope to. Then you will truly understand the magic of banking.

I am more of a Yanis Varoufakis /Noam Chomsky man when it comes to economic theory.
I listen to your man and perhaps I listened to the wrong clip, (tomorrow I will listen to more) all he did was sling insults and make accusations toward the EU parliament, perhaps rightly so , but i did not hear any economic theory.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

How much food does Jeff bezos need? how many shirts? how many cars? houses ? etc let him have 100 times more than the average person, it should still be motivation to take risks be creative work hard be an entrepreneur.

Ok, let Bezos have 100x or 1000x the average; what incentive does he now have to further enrich himself whilst creating more jobs? Or do you expect he should work for zero income?

Originally Posted by bsnub

I have to say you drive a truck for a living. You will be faced with automation within ten years or less.

I'll probably be on the dole(SS disability) long before that...my doctor has already brought it up without me asking.

So I guess that may be my "guaranteed" basic income.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo Banzai

Why cant some of the profits be redirected to keep the cow they are milking healthy and giving milk .
It is to the advantage of every farmer to have a healthy cow.

Yes it's better for the 1% if the chattel are healthy.

Originally Posted by jabir

Ok, let Bezos have 100x or 1000x the average; what incentive does he now have to further enrich himself whilst creating more jobs? Or do you expect he should work for zero income?

The problem is that he is not creating more jobs but that with automation he is creating less jobs, but I get your point. At some point it is no longer about wealth for the sake of wealth , but wealth for the sake of power and the ability to maintain and increase power.