Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

Originally Posted by Neverna

My predictions:
May will win the no confidence vote.
The EU will clarify a few points.
May will return and explain those clarifications.
Parliament will approve the deal.
The UK will leave the EU.

think that comment has a lot going for it

parliament might make some inconsequential amendments - in a desperate effort to show that they have balls

the UK will leave, not too sure about that, this deal doesn't really allow for substancial leave until ......... whoever knows

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if parliament (not Tory) had ditched TM, UK with a new government would have had a stronger voice re deal changes

(rip out the backstop and CU stuff, you would see a fixed end to UKs relationship with EU - now it is open ended)

Originally Posted by buriramboy

The deal on offer isn't Brexit though, that's the problem.

Correct. It is Fake Brexit where basically everything stays the same until such time when the EU lets the UK leave... ph and they get to decide how much they con out of the UK as well.

May has been negotiating with the UK Remainers on behalf of the EU. She is a traitor and needs to go to the gallows

Originally Posted by Norton

The old gal is certainly expending her energy to push her deal though. Off to the EU summit now. She can't be accused of low energy regardless of her motives.

Doubt the EU will do more than a bit of word smithing so she is pissing into the wind. It will never pass parliament vote.

The will of the British people is no longer even a minor consideration. All about political party survival. Much more insanity to come before the curtian closes on this entertaining opera. Keeping me away from Netscape.

Spot on. She certainly has stamina, and if focussed on the Brexit her country voted for rather than her heartfelt belief that we should stay despite the democratic process, I've no doubt we would have ended with a better and acceptable deal.

Now the options are to renegotiate the current deal, or we have a no deal Brexit which most commentaries claim would be a disaster while some as ever say is the best option, or a Norway + which looks good and seems to work for Norway but still leaves critical issues unresolved for us, or Ref2. The only positive in this stew is that any of the first three is better than the ongoing uncertainty, while the last leads to another round of bitterness, division, probable civil unrest, and a wreath for the 'democracy' our leaders pretend to treasure.

What has really become evident these past couple of years, is as you say the will of the people no longer counts beyond the occasional scramble for votes at election time.

well the show is over until January that is, for a new vote

Our Brexit deal is at risk, May warns EU leaders
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46560807

In other words, the EU would continue trying to negotiate a trade deal with the UK even if the Irish backstop had been triggered at the end of the transition period.

The Brexit withdrawal agreement only talks about "best endeavours" being used to reach an agreement during the transition period.

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said clarifications could be added, "but there will be no renegotiations".

He urged the UK to tell the EU what it wants in the future relationship, saying: "Our UK friends need to say what they want, instead of asking us to say what we want and so we would like within a few weeks our UK friends to set out their expectations for us, because this debate is sometimes nebulous and imprecise and I would like clarifications".

He said the commission will publish information on its preparations for a no-deal Brexit on 19 December.

Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz, who holds the rotating EU presidency, suggested there could be a special Brexit summit in January to agree "additional assurances".

But Irish premier Leo Varadkar said that while EU was keen to be "helpful", some of the suggestions she had put forward were "difficult" and warned there could be no "unilateral exit clause" on the backstop.

Downing Street has confirmed that MPs will not now vote on Mrs May's deal before Christmas and said the vote would happen "as soon as possible in January".

Originally Posted by Troy

Thanks for the apology...



Just getting them ready for the Brexit riots....

Well done, don't bother addressing the points.

And do remind them to remove the UN insignia, otherwise people might get the wrong idea that EU vehicles being used against the people represent the EU.

Wasn't so long ago that 3rd World dictators were ousted, imprisoned, murdered and legally executed for using the might of the state against their own people. Just saying.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

The deal on offer isn't Brexit though, that's the problem.

it still is, it's just another international trade agreement, and you won't be part of the future decision process

now if you guys want to live like hermits, that's another issue

all these international deals have an element of free movement for work and visa free deals for expert skills, because like cattle, human capital is regarded as capital assets, and you need it to feed your growing economy

Text of EU summit conclusions on Brexit

UK withdrawal deal 'not open for renegotiation'

1. The European Council reconfirms its conclusions of 25 November 2018, in which it endorsed the Withdrawal Agreement and approved the Political Declaration. The Union stands by this agreement and intends to proceed with its ratification. It is not open for renegotiation.

2. The European Council reiterates that it wishes to establish as close as possible a partnership with the United Kingdom in the future. It stands ready to embark on preparations immediately after signature of the Withdrawal Agreement to ensure that negotiations can start as soon as possible after the UK’s withdrawal.

3. The European Council underlines that the backstop is intended as an insurance policy to prevent a hard border on the island of Ireland and ensure the integrity of the Single Market. It is the Union’s firm determination to work speedily on a subsequent agreement that establishes by 31 December 2020 alternative arrangements, so that the backstop will not need to be triggered.

4. The European Council also underlines that, if the backstop were nevertheless to be triggered, it would apply temporarily, unless and until it is superseded by a subsequent agreement that ensures that a hard border is avoided. In such a case, the Union would use its best endeavours to negotiate and conclude expeditiously a subsequent agreement that would replace the backstop, and would expect the same of the United Kingdom, so that the backstop would only be in place for as long as strictly necessary.

5. The European Council calls for work on preparedness at all levels for the consequences of the United Kingdom’s withdrawal to be intensified, taking into account all possible outcomes.

Originally Posted by Troy

Since the Maybot has promised not to lead the Tories in the next GE she will go down in history as the scapegoat for Brexit and its failings. She won't get any legal changes to the negotiated agreement, just a pat on the back and a few smiles...

She will probably go down as one of the worst PMs in Brit history, which takes some doing, and which btw is a bit short of singing her praises as one idiot on this thread accuses me of. But to be fair for her it was an uphill task in uncharted waters trying to please a divided country, civil service and leadership, so we can only speculate under the same conditions how any other Tory PM, or for that matter Corbyn would have fared.

The agreement is the best Brexit deal on offer, so for those that want Brexit - just take it. The alternative has to be no Brexit at all and this is the way Maybot has to get her agreement through the Commons.

I know you would never state the obvious, and being the only deal it's also the worst on offer.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

Apparently May only said she wouldn't lead the Tories into the scheduled 2022 general election but was non committal if there was a snap election next year. She will lead the Tories to a 1997 wipe out or worse if doesn't step down. Never thought I'd see a worse PM than Brown but I've proven wrong with the disaster that is Doris.

Sadam Hussein was probably thinking much the same about his continued leadership when they found him in the rat hole.

The only positive of her staying on to April is that she's the devil we know and it avoids another train wreck in an already rudderless country and gov. With 37% of her own troops turned against her she should have resigned, but for now I'm glad she didn't.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

The deal on offer isn't Brexit though, that's the problem.

Don't remind the scoffers that Brexit is divorce, not the current deal of separate bedrooms.

May will be gone soon enough; Brexit will be extended or revoked. Interesting times ahead

The EU has said they will not agree to ANY changes in the detail of the Remain Deal.

But, Maybot has assured the UK that Junker made a pinkie promise to her that everything would be ok.

Troy. As Jabir points out, it is the only deal on offer and certainly not sufficient to meet the meaning of her oft repeated phrase, Brexit means Brexit.
You are clutching at straws in the wind. Tories will get rid of May by voting against her non deal, whenever that vote happens.
No GE and no 2R

Hard Brexit with no deal is the only future option, because by now, everyone and his dog has seen how petty and dubious the EU really is. Time to cut them adrift before they take all our money and waste it trying to prop up the malaise that is spreading through Europe.

I find it rather odd that the only EU supporters on here don’t live or work in UK, meaning that their opinions are as worthless as the EU leadership.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

UK withdrawal deal 'not open for renegotiation'

#Of course its not - It is the EUs written exit deal delivered by May. there's been no negotiation. There's been no talks. They've been pulling the wool over everyones eyes working with their EU federalist mate Theresa May.

Originally Posted by Switch

Troy. As Jabir points out, it is the only deal on offer and certainly not sufficient to meet the meaning of her oft repeated phrase, Brexit means Brexit.
You are clutching at straws in the wind. Tories will get rid of May by voting against her non deal, whenever that vote happens.
No GE and no 2R

Hard Brexit with no deal is the only future option, because by now, everyone and his dog has seen how petty and dubious the EU really is. Time to cut them adrift before they take all our money and waste it trying to prop up the malaise that is spreading through Europe.

I find it rather odd that the only EU supporters on here don’t live or work in UK, meaning that their opinions are as worthless as the EU leadership.

So Brits working in the EU don't count? Thanks for that, although I did vote and so it is only your incorrect opinion that I don't count. Is that simply because I have a different view to you?

As I have said before, a hard Brexit is going to be difficult to get through the Commons and any attempt will bring about a vote of no confidence that the Tories will lose. The current Brexit deal is the only Brexit likely to succeed and it isn't looking too good either.

The debate needs to carry on now and be voted on. Once that decision has been made a united way forward needs to be agreed with all other options on the table, including no Brexit.

No Brexit has already been dismissed twice, once in the referendum and secondly in the general election where over 80% of the electorate voted for parties vowing to implement Brexit. There will not be another referendum or people's (losers) vote or not while the Tories cling to power anyway. Only question is what type of Brexit we end up with as in a clean Brexit which is what people voted for or Mays Brexit in name only which isn't Brexit at all. That is the choice Mps will probably end up with and sadly the spineless twats will vote for Doris deal.

I am not talking about what I want or what I get from the outcome. You have pretty much confirmed that all options end up okay for me personally.

Hard Brexit is not good for the UK period.

May Brexit puts the UK in a worse position than it is now.

What other options are there?

Originally Posted by Troy

I am not talking about what I want or what I get from the outcome. You have pretty much confirmed that all options end up okay for me personally.

Hard Brexit is not good for the UK period.

May Brexit puts the UK in a worse position than it is now.

What other options are there?

I agree that the May option is shite, but no one knows what a hard Brexit is good for, even you. It’s an unknown that I happen to believe, will right many of the wrongs in our political culture of dependency.
Result.

Brexit: EU says no to May on renegotiating deal
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46560807

If this meeting in Brussels was meant to provide Theresa May with the beginnings of an escape route from her Brexit conundrum, the signs are not good.

At one of her most vulnerable political moments, Number 10 was hopeful at least of an indication of a potential solution to the most intense of a long list of Brexit problems - the controversial so-called backstop designed to guarantee against a hard Irish border.

But right now, that's simply not on offer.

EU leaders made plain their warnings that their divorce deal with Britain was not up for negotiation were real.

Requests for change to ease Westminster politics were not fulfilled, with key phrases from a more accommodating draft gone by midnight.

But the rejection gives succour perhaps to those in government who want their critics to accept that the prime minister's deal may be genuinely, as good as it gets.

In comments released by Downing Street on Thursday, Mrs May urged EU leaders to help her "get this deal over the line" and said she firmly believed it could get through the Commons, saying: "There is a majority in my Parliament who want to leave with a deal so with the right assurances this deal can be passed. Indeed, it is the only deal capable of getting through my Parliament," she said.

Originally Posted by Switch

....how petty and dubious the EU really is. Time to cut them adrift before they take all our money and waste it trying to prop up the malaise that is spreading through Europe.

This will be like a life raft cutting a perfectly working oil tanker adrift in high seas.

The EU is petty and dubious? ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Switch

I agree that the May option is shite, but no one knows what a hard Brexit is good for, even you. It’s an unknown that I happen to believe, will right many of the wrongs in our political culture of dependency.
Result.

how is living isolated and shutting down all economic and political frontier any good? are you as dumb as Trump by any chance?

you really are living in lala land thinking some kind of miracle is going to happen,

you will probably need to have an IMF bailout if a hard Brexit does happen, your country will collapse completely like a bad subprime C tranche deal gone wrong

Originally Posted by Switch

Troy. As Jabir points out, it is the only deal on offer and certainly not sufficient to meet the meaning of her oft repeated phrase, Brexit means Brexit.

how many deals on the table do you want? you are not shopping for better deals on the world market, you are negotiating the ONLY deal that you can get for the future relationship you want with the EU, there can only be ONE DEAL ffs

the problem as clearly reminded by Junker is the Torries showed up at the negotiating table, unprepared and with no clue on what they wanted really, waiting for the EU to give them a roadmap for the exit, which they did, and since you had no clue, you went along with it.

So stop fooking moaning like old ladies at tea time, go for the fooking deal and be quiet

As usual all assumptions and conjecture dressed up as butterfly facts. What is you can’t get your petty little brain around.
No one, least of all you, can predict the outcome of Brexit, hard or soft.
My thoughts are clearly stated as my opinions. You would do well to hark that message instead of being so over confident and pig headed.
Like Troy, this is not a case of what you want becoming fact just because you want it.

There are more twists to come In this sorry tale, and no one has come close to calling it. You might think with the Irish border being a non issue for all parties, that the EU might see reason and quantify their intentions, but no, they still insist on having their pound of flesh.
Thats the opinion of Tusk and Junker the posturing peacock twats. Let’s see what Mutty has to say about it eh?