Thread: Brexit - It's Still On!

It's very viable plan by May.

Stake your own reputation on no ref2, get kicked out, the ref2 votes to stay, blame it on the scared rabbits of the citizens, retire with a few city stipends, a lords seat.......

Mission accomplished.

You know the problem has reached an impasse when the conspiracy theorists waltz in...

Originally Posted by OhOh

It's very viable plan by May.

Stake your own reputation on no ref2, get kicked out, the ref2 votes to stay, blame it on the scared rabbits of the citizens, retire with a few city stipends, a lords seat.......

Mission accomplished.

As the May deal fails to achieve anything except an extension of instability and uncertainty, it is inherently unviable. It also places the UK in a worse position than the country is now in. More expense and less say.

The country is suffering from Brexit fatigue and therefore likely to take the deal just get the shit to go away. Bad result.

Originally Posted by cyrille

I see you've been quite the bullish BREXITer for the last couple of weeks.

Prior to that you spent two years clucking and 'don't know'ing.

When you've decided you really do throw yourself into the role though, eh...Jabir?

Same same squirrel, at no time did I know what would happen and I still make no such claim; unfortunately we do not all share your depth of understanding.

Originally Posted by Switch

I think May is probably living in a time warp or a black hole. Screaming about integrity, democracy and securing the delivery of the first referendum. Her so called deal undermines everything she is screaming about, by keeping the UK in the eu, completely against the wishes of the people. You can smell the hypocrisy from here, you two faced bitch.

The noose is tightening, she has no way out of her betrayal. Not good, while she deserves to go, if she does it becomes even more complex and divisive, and if not then she stays in bed with the enemy.

Originally Posted by Boo Boo

I would.









.... but she won’t.

Originally Posted by Switch

As the May deal fails to achieve anything except an extension of instability and uncertainty, it is inherently unviable. It also places the UK in a worse position than the country is now in. More expense and less say.

The country is suffering from Brexit fatigue and therefore likely to take the deal just get the shit to go away. Bad result.

Talk of Downing Street plotting a Ref2; whether true or not there is only one way we could have a legitimate Ref2 and that's without a 'stay' option, which has already been decided. Otherwise it leads to a slew of legal and political problems and civil unrest.

As things stand the only Ref2 that recognises the legitimacy of Ref1 would have no option to remain, so something like no deal/current deal - assuming it is final and politician-proof.

The gods won't like that; no matter what the hecklers say those that do matter want us in and they want our money, so second best for the EU would be the current deal which serves that purpose and allows them to bleed us, but feelings are running high and no deal could clinch it.

Ruth Dudley Edwards: 'It's the Germans we should be worried about, not the Brits'


I write this from a land imperilled by the Brexiteers "who espouse a romantic notion of returning to the British Empire's glory days, characterised by an independence in trade, free of the shackles imposed by Brussels, while knowing deep down in their hearts and minds that leaving the EU can only mean a much poorer future for most citizens in the United Kingdom".


How typical the blast-from-the-past Thatcherite MP who described the vote for Brexit as "the greatest ever vote of confidence in the project of the United Kingdom"!

The first quote comes from a letter in yesterday's Irish Times; the second is from 38-year-old computer engineer and lawyer Kemi Badenoch, brought up in Nigeria until she was 16, whose witty and passionate maiden speech last year established her as a rising star in the Tory party.

As someone who voted Leave after much heart-searching - and who has many Remain friends - what really bothers me about most Irish media coverage of Brexit is its sheer ignorance. See, for instance, Fintan O'Toole's analyses swallowed whole by so many.

Fintan is a gifted writer, but if you care about substance rather than style, it makes much of what he writes on his current obsession utterly pointless since he doesn't have a clue about the British.

Mary Kenny, the Irish Independent columnist, like me has lived in England for most of her adult life and listens to both Leaver and Remainer friends. She regards Fintan's new book Heroic Failure: Brexit and the Politics of Pain - which sees the root cause as "the fatal British nostalgia for empire" which has led to a "psychodrama in which the UK is playing out a 50 Shades of Grey scenario" - as doing a disservice to understanding an issue of such huge importance for Ireland as well as the UK.

"He picks out various old codgers as antediluvian Brits longing for the past", she tweeted, "while studiously ignoring the diversity" of the cost of those who are also part of the picture.

The only people I know who go on about the British Empire are ignorant Irish nationalists and anti-colonial activists. Bashed by a left-wing educational establishment over decades, the English in particular were taught to despise an imperial past which - with all its deficiencies - is probably the least-worst empire ever and, like Rome, did good as well as harm.

Last year, when the Oxford Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology, Nigel Biggar, announced a multidisciplinary 'Ethics and Empire' project to test the ethical critiques of "empire" against the historical facts, right-on academics and social media lynch mobs tried to close it down.Trevor Phillips, ex-chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, whose parents were West African immigrants, denounced this academic cowardice: "The Stalinist imposition of one reading of history leads to one outcome and that is suppression of free speech."

I am no fan of empire: it is the imperialist aspirations of the EU that drove my Euroscepticism and made me conclude that the United Kingdom and Ireland would be better off out.

As was confirmed by one-time Greek foreign minister Yanis Varoufakis in Adults in the Room: My Battle With Europe's Deep Establishment, although the French have the best rhetoric, Germany calls the shots. Greece was sacrificed to German bankers.

Germany passionately wants a strong EU, because it is afraid of itself, but that doesn't mean it wants its authority questioned. Consider the contemptuous way that Angela Merkel opened her arms to a flood of immigrants into the EU without as much as a perfunctory consultation with Germany's partners.

Mary Kenny cites a well-informed book, Paul Lever's Berlin Rules: Europe and the German Way, which demonstrates how the EU "is dominated by Germany, with structure mirroring German structures, its officials nearly always, in the end, subservient to German interests".

Emily O'Reilly, European Ombudsman, wrote a withering report on the "maladministration" involved in rigging procedures so as to push Martin Selmayr, Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker's chief of staff, into the job of secretary general - the EU's most senior civil service post. The 28-member commission colluded, the EU Parliament complained and demanded O'Reilly's investigation, but her findings could not reverse the appointment.

The British are not anti-immigrant, although many poor people stranded in ill-paid jobs know that it suits business to have an apparently infinite supply of cheap labour in order to keep wages down, resented the government's apparent lack of interest in their plight, were shocked that benefits were paid to immigrants' families overseas, and worried about the increasing pressure on already over-burdened public services, schools, housing sector and so on.

They have no affection for what they see as a protectionist and meddling EU and think like Kemi Badenoch, who says: "As an economic liberal, I want to see Britain trading more freely around the world."

They want their sovereignty back, something the Irish should understand.

The British negotiating strategy has been a complete shambles, its pro-EU civil-service negotiators a fifth-column and Theresa May should be defenestrated for incompetence.

Yet the brilliant negotiators in Ireland and in the EU may well have overplayed their hand. As Sir Christopher Meyer, one-time ambassador to the US, has pointed out, the EU set up the negotiations to fail and it shows.

Such is the resentment of the bullying of their country and prime minister, it would be surprising if Leave didn't win another referendum with a bigger margin.

Look at what's going on in Greece, in Italy, in France, consider the appalling figures of youth unemployment in Spain and Portugal, take note of the way in which Germany controls a commission that is trying to force countries like Hungary to accept immigrants they don't want, while resentful Europeans are voting for some sinister right-wingers.

The UK is very stable and prosperous by comparison. Why would we vote to remain?




https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/ruth-dudley-edwards-its-the-germans-we-should-be-worried-about-not-the-brits-37630388.html

I thought you'd struggle to find a more clueless piece than your last contribution, but Bravo!

Anyone who maintains 'leave' would win by a larger margin now that people know what they're voting for is talking out of their arse.

So just how as the EU slighted you leavers on a personal level?

Originally Posted by cyrille

I thought you'd struggle to find a more clueless piece than your last contribution, but Bravo!

Anyone who maintains 'leave' would win by a larger margin now that people know what they're voting for is talking out of their arse.

I humbly suggest that the exact opposite is true. A better informed electorate will certainly vote for no deal. Especially after Mays’s hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by cyrille

I thought you'd struggle to find a more clueless piece than your last contribution, but Bravo!

Anyone who maintains 'leave' would win by a larger margin now that people know what they're voting for is talking out of their arse.

The public have had a couple of years of anti Brexit propaganda rammed down their necks answer some have grew weary of the subject.
So in theory a win would be on the cards for the remoaners if another referendum was held.
But that would give democracy the biggest kick in the teeth, so thankfully won't happen.

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

So in theory a win would be on the cards for the remoaners if another referendum was held.

Would it? The Remoaners were so confident in the build up to the referendum that they were going to win easily that some broke down crying on hearing the result. Don't count yer chickens......................... springs to mind.

Originally Posted by Switch

As the May deal fails to achieve anything except an extension of instability and uncertainty, it is inherently unviable. It also places the UK in a worse position than the country is now in. More expense and less say.

The country is suffering from Brexit fatigue and therefore likely to take the deal just get the shit to go away. Bad result.

The May deal keeps the UK in the Customs Union without having to pay or allow EU freedom of movement so it has achieved something towards withdrawal from the EU until an FTA is put in place. It is a halfway house but a stable one, which a Hard Brexit isn't. Industry could work with a May deal. It can't with a Hard Brexit.

Nothing beats staying in though, which 16m people voted for. Such a U-turn would probably piss off less people than a hard Brexit.

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

The public have had a couple of years of anti Brexit propaganda rammed down their necks answer some have grew weary of the subject.
So in theory a win would be on the cards for the remoaners if another referendum was held.
But that would give democracy the biggest kick in the teeth, so thankfully won't happen.

Doesn't affect the democratic process if Ref2 has no stay option; as the EU gangsters have removed Norway+ and refuse to make concessions, this narrows a legit Ref2 down to no deal or her shit deal.

Originally Posted by Troy

The May deal keeps the UK in the Customs Union without having to pay or allow EU freedom of movement so it has achieved something towards withdrawal from the EU until an FTA is put in place. It is a halfway house but a stable one, which a Hard Brexit isn't. Industry could work with a May deal. It can't with a Hard Brexit.

Nothing beats staying in though, which 16m people voted for. Such a U-turn would probably piss off less people than a hard Brexit.

Might be your cuppa to trust May and the EU gods that the backstop would be 'temporary'; good for you, so was income tax.

Originally Posted by Troy

The May deal keeps the UK in the Customs Union without having to pay or allow EU freedom of movement so it has achieved something towards withdrawal from the EU until an FTA is put in place. It is a halfway house but a stable one, which a Hard Brexit isn't. Industry could work with a May deal. It can't with a Hard Brexit.

Nothing beats staying in though, which 16m people voted for. Such a U-turn would probably piss off less people than a hard Brexit.

Why do you insist that an unknown, such as hard Brexit would automatically be bad news for industry. According to seeking ass, the country doesn’t have any.
We are no longer a part of the industrial revolution. The truth is UK industry is high tech and very specialized, producing sophisticated products that others simply don’t have tha ability to manufacture successfully. They are inherently adaptable intelligent people who would cope with any change they are presented with. The country has moved on. No wonder everyone thinks it’s shit based on negative intransigents such as yourself.

Originally Posted by jabir

so why don't you tell us where Socialism works, or worked. I'll start you off: USSR, China....

Right, ...is that the same China that is one of most powerful countries on the planet at the moment, grown out of the fertile soils of communism?

& Russia aren't doing too badly either.

As I've pointed out to you several times now, every successful country in the world has socialism as a key element in the form of governmental: health care, schools/universities, police, sanitation, refuse collection, public libraries, roads, pavements, street lighting ...the list of successful socialist endeavour is endless and is in the fact the bedrock of successful, civilised modern societies.

And, when capitalist greed recently caused a global financial crisis that threatened the western world with disaster, who was it that saved the day? ...yes, it was the strong arm of socialism that stepped in to rescue the banks from the brink of collapse on a scale that threatened the very fabric of western society. Does this mean I can now follow your logic and claim Capitalism doesn't work? No, of course not that would be a stupid claim.

Thanks for the cowardly rage pm btw, those always get me hard.

Have a great day!

Originally Posted by Switch

I think May is probably living in a time warp or a black hole. Screaming about integrity, democracy and securing the delivery of the first referendum. Her so called deal undermines everything she is screaming about, by keeping theUK in the eu, completely against the wishes of the people. You can smell the hypocrisy from here, you two faced bitch.

I don't disagree here,

she certainly seems like she is trying to create a crisis situation

New EU referendum would break faith with Britons, May to warn MPs
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46586673

Holding another referendum on the EU would "break faith with the British people", Theresa May will warn MPs.

Former PMs John Major and Tony Blair are among those urging a new referendum if MPs cannot agree on a way forward.

But the prime minister will argue that it would do "irreparable damage to the integrity of our politics" and would "likely leave us no further forward".

Last week she called off a Commons vote on her Brexit deal, admitting it was likely to be heavily rejected.

The UK is due to leave the EU on 29 March 2019 - the deal sets out the terms of exit and includes a declaration on the outline of the future relations between the UK and the EU. But it only comes into force if the UK and European Parliaments approve it.

The prime minister has signalled MPs will now vote on this early next year, and no later than 21 January.

love the BBC comments

There is another crash coming. Personal debt is at the similar levels as what caused the first one. All the fault of no interest rates wrong 'cure' for the previous debt problem.

Leave is decided, no deals were on the ballot. Any deal is yet annother political class scam, cook up. We are going to need freedom of action, a lower pound to get rates up high, to cope with the coming crash.

Do it

1547. Posted by DMC123 on Just now

May is falling into the same trap as Cameron, appeasing the eurosceptics and ERG members within the party. Since when has she really cared about what the electorate want.

A 2nd referendum is the only thing that will save her and the Tories once this ridiculous threat if my deal vs no deal comes to pass. Sure they will lose votes either way, but it’s all about damage limitation for them.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

I don't disagree here,

Totally out of character.

Originally Posted by Dragonfly

Blair has now joined the debate to complete the fuckup

Now there's a guy you can trust.

Originally Posted by Troy

if the UK wants to go down the Hard Brexit route and then secure a free trade agreement with the EU in the future it will need to pay this bill.

That's my take on the issue in my world

Unfortunately "your take" or "my world" however important, in your particular circumstances, is not the issue.

Originally Posted by Troy

A fooking broken economy with nobody looking our way...

Germany is not "looking our way", it never has it never will. Germany looks after number 1, Germany. As all governments should. Do British citizens vote for German national, provincial or local politician, no.

Originally Posted by jabir

to give the genuinely less fortunate a leg up, within reason and subject to affordability, but while many of these are touted as rights they are actually privileges.

If you have ever applied for any UK benefits you will realise they are for the less fortunate, however they have achieved that status. As the UK is able to sign multi billion £ contracts for weapons, engage in umpteen wars and "invest" in foreign debt, it can certainly afford the contract it offered the UK citizens. NHS, unemployment benefits, state pensions, .... decades ago.

All these "benefits" are paid from workers taxes, the many, many taxes UK citizens pay, working or not. That's the contract that was undertaken decades ago. Affordability is determined by the UK politicians, spending budgets are determined by the same UK politicians. Squeezed and relaxed depending on the political timetable

They are "rights", Joe Blogg pays for them daily, weekly and monthly, all taken as per the contract offered and accepted by UK citizens.