Thread: The U.K and the E.U - In or out?

Some complain that having the unelected in Brussels is not democracy
yet only 23% voted for the Cons in last election.
77% otherwise.
Having too many parties in an election seems to be undemocratic.
Then there's the Media doing a job on the people.

The guys who want OUT Ian Duncan Smith steamrollered over benefits and the disabled. Gove steamrollered the teachers and schools network. Johnson waffles his way through on straight bannans and campaigns on German buses, porkie pies on the cost of EU etc.
Wolves in sheep clothing.

Originally Posted by buriramboy

As much as I hate to admit it I don't think 'out' has a chance of success due to the constant never ending scare stories being propagated 24 hours a day on all media sources to the point where the average Brit is now convinced it will be the end of the world if we leave.

I have to agree. This is what I posted yesterday regarding an ardent OUT supporter, til yesterday.

I spoke with a friend on Skype last night who has always claimed to be an OUT supporter. Last night he says he's going to vote IN now. I asked why? "Cuz too many lies are being claimed by both sides'. The conversation died there.

Originally Posted by Pragmatic

Last night he says he's going to vote IN now. I asked why? "Cuz too many lies are being claimed by both sides'.

I figure many think like your son. Once it's determined both sides are lying or exagerating most would vote stay in because although staying in has issues for many it's better than exiting to an unknown which may involve far worse issues than staying in. Folks tend to resist change so best leave well enough alone partcularily when exit supporters are lying.

^ Fair comment.

Originally Posted by DrB0b

So what? Perhaps I should have written out my question in full, I didn't think I would need to as the implication was obvious. "Who the fuck is he that anyone would think that his photo and quotes on this thread would make any difference at all? " Put another way, why would anybody care what some obscure Rupert thinks?

Agreed. Clarity of thought and purpose is essential, especially in written form. Added to which my crystal ball is fucked.

Originally Posted by billy the kid

Some complain that having the unelected in Brussels is not democracy
yet only 23% voted for the Cons in last election.
77% otherwise.
Having too many parties in an election seems to be undemocratic.
Then there's the Media doing a job on the people.

The guys who want OUT Ian Duncan Smith steamrollered over benefits and the disabled. Gove steamrollered the teachers and schools network. Johnson waffles his way through on straight bannans and campaigns on German buses, porkie pies on the cost of EU etc.
Wolves in sheep clothing.

The whole benefits system in the UK is fuked, outdated and not fit for purpose, everyone knows this but no one ever does anything about it, the universal credit that IDS introduced seems a lot simpler and fairer to me although there have been numerous problems getting it up and running and its only started in some parts of the country at least he made an effort in trying to fix it.

Same goes for state education in the UK it's been dumbed down to fuk, while there are excellent state schools most are crap and Gove who is a highly intelligent man was trying to improve standards obviously the left wing teachers who don't give a shit about the kids they are supposed to be teaching were against all his reforms so he eventually got moved. All this bollox we can't be testing kids as it puts too much pressure on them, fuck off.

The Electoral Commission was last night hurriedly contacting all counting officers in the UK telling them not to send out a controversial “biased” guides to postal voters which suggest they should support the Remain side in next month’s referendum.

The news came after the regulator told Bristol City Council – which has already sent the leaflet to 47,000 homes - to stop sending out the leaflet and launched an investigation into whether the issue was more widespread.

Other voters across the country last night said they too had received the same guides, suggesting that hundreds of thousands of voters might have been unfairly encouraged to back Remain.

More than six million people voted at last year's general election alone which suggests that millions might vote by post in the EU referendum next month.

A spokesman for the Commission said: “As a precaution, we are contacting all Counting Officers to make clear to them that if they are using images the same as, or similar to, the image used by Bristol City Council, they should ensure that these are changed before any further postal votes are distributed.”

The Telegraph established on Monday that voters in Kent have received the same form as voters in Bristol, while there were reports of the forms being sent to voters in Greater Manchester, West Sussex and Hertfordshire.

To get a postal vote you have to obtain a application form. Fill it out and then return it by 5pm 8 June. Not easy to do when I only received my Poll Card on Sunday. In fact impossible. Why the fcuk didn't they just put one in the envelope along with my Poll Card?

To those who are actually keeping up on this, I'm finding it all a bit confusing.
Has either the Tories or labor party said they will abide by the outcome of the vote, seems that some members of both parties are for out, but party policy is for in.

So an out vote wins, the government refuses to act and calls an election, both main parties campaign on staying in, unless the UKIP won government [ not likely ] the winner, Labor or Conservative would then have an election mandate to stay in the EU.

It also appears the government does not want to except an in vote as the will of the people, to fully engage in a federal Europe.
IE city of London to be exempt to EU financial regulations, keeping the Pound etc, My way of thinking, if you join a club you except the rules of that club, so the referendum is not really in or out, but in on what the government wants, out on what they don't want.

The whole thing is turning into a farce, the outcome, no matter the vote is predetermined, a political face saving stunt

So can anyone tell me, has either main party said they will comply with the result, if in, EU banking, money, immigration policies etc, out and they are coming out.

To my understanding, which is limited I admit, the vote is not a black and white decision, in or out is not on the table, it's vote and you will be told what is best afterward, the sheep will follow.

UKIP and others could win more seats next election, but a doubt the masses will vote to bring the 2 party system down.

Originally Posted by jamescollister

it's vote and you will be told what is best afterward

This is the best I could find.

Could MPs block an EU exit if Britain votes for it?

Michael, from East Sussex asks an intriguing question - could the necessary legislation pass the Commons if all SNP and Lib Dems, nearly all Labour and many Conservative MPs were in favour of staying?
The answer is that technically MPs could block an EU exit - but it would be seen as political suicide to go against the will of the people as expressed in a referendum. The referendum result is not legally binding - Parliament still has to pass the laws that will get Britain out of the 28 nation bloc, starting with the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act.
The withdrawal agreement would also have to be ratified by Parliament - the House of Lords and/or the Commons could vote against ratification, according to a House of Commons library report.
It adds: "If the Commons resolves against ratification, the treaty can still be ratified if the Government lays a statement explaining why the treaty should nonetheless be ratified and the House of Commons does not resolve against ratification a second time within 21 days (this process can be repeated ad infinitum)."
In practice, Conservative MPs who voted to remain in the EU would be whipped to vote with the government. Any who defied the whip would have to face the wrath of voters at the next general election.
One scenario that could see the referendum result overturned, is if MPs forced a general election and a party campaigned on a promise to keep Britain in the EU, got elected and then claimed that the election mandate topped the referendum one. Two thirds of MPs would have to vote for a general election to be held before the next scheduled one in 2020.

The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know - BBC News

It really is rather simple and doesn't need all the lies on either side. There is nothing that the UK can do that it can not do out of the EU, but there are loads of things the UK can not do being inside the EU.

The problem is that it is a no win situation for the people of the UK in how this has been set up, and a very clever move by the powers that shouldn't be. Both in and out, the road map to tyranny and a fascist state is cemented with that cement drying. At the same time, it has been used as an excuse to delay yet again the Chilcott report, to quietly discard the investigation into senior Tory pedofiles, and a raft of privatisations by the Tory's to their criminal mates.

There needs to be a general election straight after the referendum, and there can't be because of a safety clause law put in by the tory scum before they announced the referendum.

Most of the Brexiteers stories are lies, and most of the Brins are lies as well; or at best, manipulations of the facts skewed to support their narrative.

However, the people who are demanding an Stay vote, the obombas etc, well their support for In is enough to ensure that the vote should be EXIT as fast as you can.

OK Pseudolus, if I read the above correctly, the government does not have to except the result, nor have they said they will, in fact they have said they will not except the in vote without conditions from the EU, re financial regulation.
The Labor party has not said it will comply with the result either, nor what they would do if next elected, so no matter the outcome, it's business as usual.

Some MPs will have to fall on their sword, for show, other will gain, but all else will stay the same, bit like betting on a horse race, but you don't bet til after the race is over.

For arguments sake some light reading.

How does the EU impinge on British sovereignty and if the UK votes 'leave', how much do we take back?

Robbed from a friends FB page..

Decisions decisions! I'm a Hull lad from a council estate so why do I want to leave the EU?

I'm a little bit different from today's kids, I was taught about discipline and respect, I never went to college and never expected anything from anyone, if I wanted it I had to earn it, I served in the Army for 24 years, since leaving I've had various jobs.

To decide I've chosen to ignore politicians and ask myself how my family, my friends and my local community have benefitted from the EU and to be quite honest the answer is we haven't, none of us have, my local newspaper says that Hull has received £20m in the last ten year's from the EU, it sounds like a lot but WE give that to the EU every 10 hours.

The traffic here is horrendous, the roads are pot holed, violent crime on the increase, police resources slashed, social services cut, libraries closing, street lights turned off at 10pm, GP and NHS waiting times increased, maternity wards with no beds, schools in crisis, unemployment and depravity on the increase, increase in migration.

Hull based Walker modular pay their european tradesmen just £2 more an hour than the cleaner! Their workforce is 80% european.

I look at immigration like having a BBQ. First of all I don't invite people that may cause issues, if you're invited at least bring a bottle, don't turn up empty handed and demand the Aberdeen Angus 1/4 pounders, mingle with my friends dont sit in the corner commenting on what my friends are wearing, if you misbehave I hold the right to throw you out.

I live on the outskirts of Hull now, I have one neighbour who is a farmer with his and hers range rovers he gets EU money to plant trees on his land, and to have telephone masts, he's thinking about wind farming cos thats a massive EU income, my other neighbour has greenhouses with European workers and he provides caravan accommodation for them. 20 caravans and he charges rent to 80 Europeans. Keep this quite though cos nobody knows they're there. EU Law allows farmers to be exempted from inheritance tax and capital gains tax. They can build, without planning permission which is why I have 3 massive tin barns at the back of my house.

I'm told energy prices will go up if we leave, well they have every year for the last 10 years, suprisingly though the french supplier has lowered it's prices in France but raised them in the UK. I spend every weekend visiting the tip because the council can't afford to empty my bins as regular as they used to yet my council tax continues to climb.

Of the £20m Hull has received from the EU £8m has gone to Hull college. Has anyone ever heard of the EU's Jean Monnet programme (Google it) our independance is in threat from 18-24 year olds that have been spoon fed EU propoganda since leaving school, these Justin Bieber clones will quickly tell you how we should be ashamed of British colonisation but think Churchill is an insurance company and that admiral Nelson is a pub in Hessle.They've never done a days work in their lifes and been provided with funding because they're "hard to reach disenfranchised individuals" you're hard to reach because you don't get out of bed and you lack the drive and determination your grandparents had.

Don't get me wrong I want to help those in need but no more cheques and bank transfers, you need medical equipment we've got Smith and nephews, you want vitamins we've got seven seas, disefectants we've got reckits, the list goes on, we'll manufacture and ship it to you, we may even let you take some of our fish from British territorial waters.

Of all the people I know only 8 want to stay in the EU or are undecided, everyone else wants to leave despite what some polls are suggesting. Of my 600 facebook friends only 2 of them want to stay, I'm voting leave and it has nothing to do with what the BBC or any politician has said, it's because this is what I believe is right I don't care if this starts Farmergeddon.

One final note is it looks like the Austrian presidential election this week was rigged using postal votes, im still voting leave!

Originally Posted by Chittychangchang

I'm voting leave and it has nothing to do with what the BBC or any politician has said, it's because this is what I believe is right

As good s reason as any. Quite sure he is not alone in his reason to exit.

I've changed my mind!

UK needs to vote LEAVE!

It is better to face the unknown united and happy than stay in such unfavourable climes.

F*ck the bullying Germans...let them realise just what it means to have the Brits...and show them by buggering off and leaving them to hold the mess!

Bye-bye Germany...arrogant arseholes!!!!!!

^ A bad day in Bavaria, Troy?

^ They were reminded why they lost the fooking war...and the rematch...stoopid square faced incompetent twats...

Originally Posted by Troy

arrogant arseholes!!!

they will bend; they know they have too,, but getting all to agree is in the game.

France facing up on both sides and 1 side threatening the Euros.

arrogant bastards.

Originally Posted by baldrick

anyone with a job that involves producing something for sale other than chav babies should be voting in

why because they are masochists ?
maybe they like poles and soon turks undermining their wages and working conditions...
didn't half the manufacturing jobs go already to globalization?

Delete.

Originally Posted by Troy

UK needs to vote LEAVE!

Agree, get us the tax dodging companies in the City of London back to their countries of origin.
Major European banks and multinational companies has placed their head quarters there in order be in the financial centre of Europe and at the same time enjoy a company tax rate much lower than what they otherwise had to pay.
So ferk off Britain, no more stolen tax from other EU countries!