Thread: What Will It Take To Get Rid Of ISIS?

Diplomacy not bombs will defeat Isis – the West is being sucked into sectarian conflict
Does it make military sense for Britain to pursue Isis into Syria?

Does it make military sense for Britain to pursue Isis into Syria? Probably. Is it legal to do so? Possibly. Is this the most effective thing Britain can do to defeat Isis? Definitely not.

We are not losing the war against Isis because we do not have enough bombs – we are losing it because we do not have enough diplomacy.

The great military thinker Carl von Clausewitz famously said that war was the extension of diplomacy by other means. One of the reasons we in the West have suffered so many defeats in recent years is because we always seem to remember the war, but forget the diplomacy.

We see a problem in the world and our first instinct is to bomb it. We have become obsessed with high explosives as an instrument for peace.

George Bush Snr knew better. He carefully constructed a Middle East coalition before Gulf War one, making it seem Western forces were the instrument of Arab will – and he won.

George Bush Jnr ditched diplomacy in favour of Western “shock and awe” – and lost. We repeated the mistake in Afghanistan, using high explosives as a substitute for the kind of patient diplomacy to bring in the neighbours in a regional treaty, as we had done in Bosnia – and lost.

In Libya we could have created a wide regional coalition with countries like Turkey first to liberate the country and then rebuild it afterwards. Instead the West chose to blast Gaddafi out and then abandon the country to chaos afterwards.

And now we are doing it all over again. Only this time it is much more dangerous.

Some of us have been warning for three years that the real event taking place in the Middle East is a widening Sunni/Shia war which threatens to engulf the region. Isis is only part of this. But we have become so obsessed with the small picture and the short-term threat to us in the West, that we cannot see the bigger one.

There is now a real danger that we become the unwitting handmaidens of that wider conflict by creating a so called “coalition” to fight Isis which is too military, too Western, too small and far, far too Sunni.

It is not just the West or the Sunnis Arabs which are threatened by Isis. Turkey is too. And Tehran. And Moscow, which is struggling with Sunni jihadism in its Muslim republics.

For us in the West, the threat comes from jihadis returning from the battlefield. The Russian republics of Chechnya and Dagestan are the battlefield.

There is a real opportunity here, if only our obsession with high explosives would let us see it.

We will not destroy Isis just by killing more Muslim Arabs with Western bombs. And a few more British bombs will not change that.

As Clausewitz knew, no military action makes sense unless it is part of a wider diplomatic strategy. Our action against Isis isn’t and that is why it is failing.

The new rapprochement with Tehran (achieved, please note, through patient long-term diplomacy – no high explosives required) gives us a real opportunity.

The best thing Britain could do to defeat Isis is not to add a tiny quantum to the more than sufficient pile of high explosives already falling on Iraq and Syria, but to use its diplomatic skills through the EU to begin to assemble a wide diplomatic coalition aimed at smothering Isis. This should include Iran and moderate Sunni states such as Turkey.

And yes, why not Russia too? We have no choice but to play hardball with Moscow over Ukraine. But offering Putin a partnership on defeating the Sunni jihad which threatens us both would add huge weight to our ability to succeed and avoid the mistake of pushing Russia into a corner from which there is no escape.

If we want to make Britain safer, we will do it better by using our skills to help create the wider diplomatic coalition to smother Isis which will enable military action to succeed, rather than contributing our tiny portion of bombs to a policy that won’t.

Opinion
Paddy Ashdown
Diplomacy not bombs will defeat Isis ? the West is being sucked into sectarian conflict - Comment - Voices - The Independent

Originally Posted by panama hat

they don't have a son of God as Muhammad was the prophet . . .

and so, to even things out they reduce Jesus to a prophet.

that should go down well with Christian folk.

how to win over and influence friends.

Originally Posted by billy the kid

and so, to even things out they reduce Jesus to a prophet.

that should go down well with Christian folk.

Been that way since inception, why would 'Christian folk' care? Christ was a Jew - do 'Christian folk' care?

Lots of things to dislike about Islam and certainly ISIS , but that?

Originally Posted by panama hat

Originally Posted by billy the kid

and so, to even things out they reduce Jesus to a prophet.

that should go down well with Christian folk.

Been that way since inception, why would 'Christian folk' care? Christ was a Jew - do 'Christian folk' care?

Lots of things to dislike about Islam and certainly ISIS , but that?

Actually Isa was a prophet in the Quran, so it's hardly something new.

They wouldn't take kindly to you insulting him in that role.

Belief in all of the Prophets and Messengers of God is a fundamental article of faith in Islam. Thus, believing in Prophets Adam, Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them) is a requirement for anyone who calls him or herself a Muslim.

THANK YOU UNCLE SAM: ISIS miscreant in Syria enjoying new supplies courtesy of US AID



Non-US-backed rebels use American TOW missile captured from #ISIS, which captured it from US-backed rebels







They seem to be very well stocked with US weapons, these ISIS boys. Maybe ISIS will stop moving when the US stops arming them to topple ASSAD, whose country has been on the US zionist hit list for 15 years now.

They and the UK want to attack ISIS and remove ASSAD, who in turn is fighting ISIS.

The best thing at this moment in time is for western countries. Russia and some regional countries to make a deal with Assad where he allows foreign forces to attack the IS in Syria (coordinating with Syria), and a peaceful and political end to the civil war, and with no external pressure put on Assad to quit as president but with a concession of some sort of some change to the political scene in Syria.

Any blue on blue mishaps and the perpetrators get their marching orders from the Syrian government, back up if required by the other "partners".

The Syrian Government has already accepted revisions to the poilitical "scene", unfortunately the crusader coalition requires Assad, the democratically elected leader's, removal.

One thing that is being missed is that all the bombs against ISIS from the Axis of Evil..... are not targeting ISIS (which is, after all, their own rebel army). They are hitting pro Assad areas and people who are fighting US backed and armed ISIS.

^ Selective prejudice. Not uncommon, unfortunately.

While OZ is going to join in the bombing of Syria NZ, even though they want to be in there to appease the US, is attempting to be more lawful and wait for the UN to give the go ahead, something that wont happen as Russia and China will prevent it.

"Prime Minister John Key is more optimistic the United Nations security council could agree to act on the conflict in Syria.
Previous attempts by the security council to pass resolutions about the protracted and deteriorating situation in Syria have been blocked by Russia and China, preventing any UN-mandated action in the conflict zone.
But Mr Key says it's "not impossible that position moves if the situation gets worse".

Meanwhile the USA is doing its best to make the situation worse by attempting to stop humanitarian aid flights from Russia reaching Syria and congress passing a resolution to arm the Syrian rebels who are sort of aligned with IS in an attempt to have the rebels unseat Assad who is fighting IS.


Russia is talking sense and saying lets forget our differences and get together and all fight IS which is the biggest threat to the world today but the US is having none of it as they have their agenda, Syria must be taken over by the rebels as was Libya and Iraq regardless that those 2 countries have been destroyed in the process and IS rising from the ashes. There is little doubt Syria would be as well, if it is not now.


Does the S in the middle of USA stand for stupidity ?



Then we have Turkey which is said to be the IS main supply route and outlet for oil, they are fighting a branch of the Kurd's, thats the Kurd's who are having the most success fighting IS on the ground. Turkey has now after suffering an attack allowed the US to use an air base to be closer to where they want to bomb.
Looks like they are having a dollar each way



Jordan are now dropping some bombs on IS after they were attacked and the Saudi's are bombing someone else in Yemen after they were attacked.

But where are all the weapons they are buying going ? (Saudi's have advanced to No1 weapons buying country this year) the same can be asked of their small neighbor UAE which has consistently come in at No4 weapons buyer.
Who are those 2 supplying ?

Originally Posted by Neverna

^ Selective prejudice. Not uncommon, unfortunately.

The US accusing other countries of racial problems or environmental misère is also a joke

Originally Posted by birding

Russia is talking sense and saying lets forget our differences and get together and all fight IS which is the biggest threat to the world today but the US is having none of it as they have their agenda, Syria must be taken over by the rebels as was Libya and Iraq regardless that those 2 countries have been destroyed in the process and IS rising from the ashes. There is little doubt Syria would be as well, if it is not now.

How noble of Russia to say that when it is they that propped up Assad while he was beating his father's record of 30,000 civilian murders.

Ex MArine Ken O'Keefe tell it like it is...

^ trying to get understanding in this theatre.
Banksters, the Armaments producers, the Zionist movement.
Are these the folk who run the show in USA, UK and Israel.
Politicians take care of the legalities and play nanny to the people.
So, is there any point in changing leaders at election times
if all we get is more of the same ? More wars.
Yet we blame politicians when it all goes wrong, the middle men in the game.
I know i'm naive in all this but wtf is going on.
Is it really all about the expansion of Israel.

After Netenyahoo said on camera that he would come down heavy and arrest the terrorists who set fire to a Palestinian home killing the family inside
Does anyone know if any arrests were made ?

Press TV, that bastion of independent, unbiased journalism.

Originally Posted by billy the kid

Are these the folk who run the show in USA, UK and Israel

Conspiracy theory 101

Originally Posted by billy the kid

Is it really all about the expansion of Israel.

Comedy value

What will it take to get rid of ISIS?

This Putz sure doesn't know how:

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by birding

Russia is talking sense and saying lets forget our differences and get together and all fight IS which is the biggest threat to the world today but the US is having none of it as they have their agenda, Syria must be taken over by the rebels as was Libya and Iraq regardless that those 2 countries have been destroyed in the process and IS rising from the ashes. There is little doubt Syria would be as well, if it is not now.

How noble of Russia to say that when it is they that propped up Assad while he was beating his father's record of 30,000 civilian murders.

And the US, tell us about their civilian murders with your country helping.

How many civilians have the US backed rebels and the bombing killed in Syria alone and why.

And while you are at it tell us how many Syrians were fleeing their country before the Wests backed rebels started their attempt to take over the country.

Russia is talking sense it needs a coordinated effort to defeat IS, they are a common enemy, the only common enemy.

Weapons are pouring into the M E with the Saudi's this year number 1 buyer up from No 5 with the little UAE consistently at No 4. Which rebel groups are getting their share of these, IS perhaps ? we see on here photos of US weapons in the hands of IS.

And who sells the most weapons, why the good old US followed by Russia :

Here is the list of the world’s top 10 arms exporters, along with their respective shares of global exports between 2010 and 2014, from SIPRI:

• United States: 31%
• Russia: 27%
• China: 5%
• Germany: 5%
• France: 5%
• U.K.: 4%
• Spain: 3%
• Italy: 3%
• Ukraine: 3%
• Israel: 2%

Read more: 10 Countries That Export the Most Weapons

Great for business this war thing.

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

Conspiracy theory 101

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

Comedy value

a dumb post, agree.

Originally Posted by billy the kid

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

Conspiracy theory 101

Originally Posted by Exit Strategy

Comedy value

a dumb post, agree.

Never mind that, been there, look to the future, keep posting.

FFS. Here is your lord and master admitting that they are "speeding up training ISIL forces".

He says it, yet you still believe the bogey man garbage.

Originally Posted by birding

And while you are at it tell us how many Syrians were fleeing their country before the Wests backed rebels started their attempt to take over the country.

I suggest you read up on the history of the Syrian uprising starting with Dara'a because you clearly don't have a fucking clue if you think people weren't fleeing the conflict once Assad started bombing his own people in 2011.

Originally Posted by OhOh

Assad, the democratically elected leader

Yeah. About that...

Bashar al-Assad wins re-election in Syria as uprising against him rages on | World news | The Guardian

The opposition and its western allies, including the United States, have denounced the election as a farce

The European Union joined the US in condemning the election, saying in a statement that "it cannot be considered as a genuinely democratic vote."