Thread: Time for a change?

Watching the antics of both Labour and the Tories over the last 12 years or so, leaves me in doubt about the UKs future within the EU , maybe UKIP could do a better job , certainly for me they could not do much worse ,here is Farage in full flow lambasting Gordon Brown

Completely agree. The UK needs out of Europe if only to protect it from the tiptoe totalitarianism that the EU represents.

However, you seem to think the UK has a choice? Conservative, Labour and LibDems are all owned by the same group of people so no matter who gets in, the UK will endlessly creep into the United States of Europe, or, to give it its correct name in keeping with its communist roots, the European Union.

Maybe if UKIP by some sort of Miracle form a Government we could get out of the Brussels strangle hold ,as you rightly say not much chance with the other 3 heres a light hearted look at the Country were all the rules appear to be made

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by piwanoi

The UK needs out of Europe if only to protect it from the tiptoe totalitarianism that the EU represents.

There are downsides of membership but unless the UK can maintain the economic upside of being part of the union, leaving would have significant negative economic implications.

I Did not make this comment Psuedo did ,but not withstanding I agree with him , and for me the whole concept of "one size fits all" has been a disaster .

Happens all the time. SW glitch. Fixed.

Originally Posted by Norton

Happens all the time. SW glitch. Fixed.

No probs Norton just pointing it out , it really made no difference anyways cos I agreed with his musings 110%

Looks most Brits are in favor of leaving EU.

"Only one in three wants UK to stay in EU By Jim Pickard, Chief Political Correspondent

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg have an uphill struggle before any EU referendum according to a poll that says only one in three would vote to stay in the bloc.
The findings, which are likely to spark alarm in pro-European circles, suggest that anti-Brussels sentiment is sweeping through the British public.
Given an in-out referendum on EU membership tomorrow, 50 per cent would vote “out” against 33 per cent “in” and 17 per cent who would not vote either way, according to the poll by Harris Interactive for the Financial Times.
Mr Cameron, who had resisted calls to hold a referendum, finally bowed to pressure last month by promising that a Tory government would do so in 2017."


Only one in three wants UK to stay in EU - FT.com

Yeah Norton , pressure from the people who are voting with their feet towards UKIP , But are of the main stream party,s to be trusted on a referendum if and when they get into or keep in power ?

A party for loonies, idiots and racists; you'll be right at home Piwanoi.

Some of their policies: introduce a flat rate of tax, scrap employer's NIC, sack 2 million state employees, ban multiculturalism, increase defence spending by 40% (including expanding the nuclear fleet), introduce vouchers for private health care, stop all funding of climate change research. It's like a bad impersonation of Jeremy Clarkson having a wet dream.

But the reactionary petite bourgeoisie always votes for fools like this; it's a party for those sad, middle-aged men who the 21st century has left behind - those who dream of a return to some weird version of the 1950s when women are always in the kitchen, the neighbours are always white and straight and the men are in the pubs (safely protected by those 'No dogs or Pakis' signs).

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by [pseudolus

The UK needs out of Europe if only to protect it from the tiptoe totalitarianism that the EU represents.

There are downsides of membership but unless the UK can maintain the economic upside of being part of the union, leaving would have significant negative economic implications.

Economic upside?

'splain that one please.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by [pseudolus

The UK needs out of Europe if only to protect it from the tiptoe totalitarianism that the EU represents.

There are downsides of membership but unless the UK can maintain the economic upside of being part of the union, leaving would have significant negative economic implications.

Economic upside?

'splain that one please.

Yeah Gotta admit I cannot see at this moment in time any "UPSIDE" in the UK economy , nor even in the foreseeable future .

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Economic upside?

Oops missed earlier.

If and this is an IF, UK pulls the plug on EU will EU continue with trade arrangements as they are under current EU trade rules?

UK exports to EU countries account for over 50% of total worldwide exports. A drop in exports would effect UK economy.

EU investment in UK and UK investment in EU countries is easy under EU rules. Should EU make it harder (more expensive) for UK companies to do business in EU, economy will be effected.

If the UK can manage to keep EU trade and business rules unchanged then won't effect economy when they dump EU.

Do we expect EU will allow UK to have their cake and eat it too?

Originally Posted by Zooheekock

A party for loonies, idiots and racists;

I believe that they are the ONLY party to ban anyone who was once a member of a far right party.

All those ex nazis can still sign up for the conservatives.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by [pseudolus

The UK needs out of Europe if only to protect it from the tiptoe totalitarianism that the EU represents.

There are downsides of membership but unless the UK can maintain the economic upside of being part of the union, leaving would have significant negative economic implications.

Economic upside?

'splain that one please.

Please, you have proven before that you have an education.

European Movement UK: The Economic Benefits to the UK of EU Membership

I suggest you read it and ponder carefully if a country with an economy as weak as the UK's should even consider to start and debate to leave the EU. If you did so, you'd face an economic crisis and unemployement of proportions not seen yet in your history. In short, say goodbye to holidays in Thailand.

I don't know what grievances some of the British hold against the union, I guess it's mostly imaginary stuff. If I'm wrong, please tell what the EU has done to make your personal life worse.

It would be very, very silly for the UK to pull out of the EU. So silly, that the idea isn't worth thinking about.

Originally Posted by Troy

It would be very, very silly for the UK to pull out of the EU. So silly, that the idea isn't worth thinking about.

Go on then, sell me the idea?

The UK needs the European market trade. If it dropped out of the EU and back to the European Free Trade Area (EFTA) then it would have no influence in the decision making at all. That is the reason why the UK went from EFTA to full EU in 1973. No point playing a game in which others make the rules and you have to abide by them regardless.

The UK influence on the World Market has dropped by the wayside with short term gain decisions taken years ago that have destroyed the manufacturing business completely. Quite simply the UK doesn't build anything any more that is either better or more economical than anywhere else. Take away the EU and the chances are that you will lose what little of the aircraft and defence industries are left.

The service industry is nothing more than a sand-castle waiting for the tide to come in.

Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

I say fuck that.

We are subsiding lazy Greeks, Spaniards and Portugese, not to mention Romanian and Bulgarian scroungers.

Time the shut the door, complying with most of the legislation costs British businesses a fortune anyway, it's just a big money train straight to Brussels where unelected fat cats decide how much they are going to screw out of us.

Is it true that the EU has failed to put in an end of year 'set of books' to date?

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Time the shut the door, complying with most of the legislation costs British businesses a fortune anyway, it's just a big money train straight to Brussels where unelected fat cats decide how much they are going to screw out of us.

This may have been true before Maggie managed to get the rebate agreement but not since then. In fact, Britain pays the least in terms of %GNI and others, that have less, are pissed off that they have to contribute to this rebate.

Reminds me of rich Bangkokonians moaning that they have to pay tax to help the Isaan poor.

Originally Posted by Norton

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Economic upside?

Oops missed earlier.

If and this is an IF, UK pulls the plug on EU will EU continue with trade arrangements as they are under current EU trade rules?

UK exports to EU countries account for over 50% of total worldwide exports. A drop in exports would effect UK economy.

EU investment in UK and UK investment in EU countries is easy under EU rules. Should EU make it harder (more expensive) for UK companies to do business in EU, economy will be effected.

If the UK can manage to keep EU trade and business rules unchanged then won't effect economy when they dump EU.

Do we expect EU will allow UK to have their cake and eat it too?

If only what you state was true , then I would agree , but Britain buys more from Europe than sells to it , are they going to stop selling to us ?
and what about China , Europe is flooded with thier goods , they are not in the union , sounds like they are having thier cake and eating it .

Britain is in a right mess both economically and socially , could not be much worse ,so might as well give it a try .

They import more than export because Maggie fucked up the British manufacturing, not alone, but a substantial part. Do you believe UK would get a better deal for its imports anywhere else? If so, they'd do it right now. The EU is the largest market in the world, no tarriffs or custom duties, but unified regulations. What businesses love.

Originally Posted by harrybarracuda

Being a member of the European Union has been a one-way street for Britain. Contributions from Britain to the EU budget have outstripped the benefits received in every single year of membership.

In total since 1979, Britain has paid in about €260 billion (£228 billion). It has received back in benefits just €163 billion (£143 billion). The difference of €97 billion (£85 billion at today’s exchange rate) has been Britain’s subsidy to the European project.

I say fuck that.

We are subsiding lazy Greeks, Spaniards and Portugese, not to mention Romanian and Bulgarian scroungers.

Time the shut the door, complying with most of the legislation costs British businesses a fortune anyway, it's just a big money train straight to Brussels where unelected fat cats decide how much they are going to screw out of us.

Do the maths, in 2010 the UK contributions to the EU were about € 180 per person, and receipts € 105 per person. That's so ridiculously low amounts, not even worth talking about. I smoke this in cigarettes in 2 weeks. If you say membership in the EU didn't make up for the € 75 per year, get advise by some businesspeople in the UK. BTW, Germany pays nearly twice as much.

No matter right or wrong, in or out it will not be the peoples choice. Politiction talk a good deal about democracy, but they don't want the unwashed masses having any real say.
The UK will not leave the EU, there will be a lot of smoke and mirrors, tough talk, but the decision will be made by non elected persons. Jim