Thread: War in Iran - likely?

Going to war with Iran is so utterly, downright dumb that I consider it very unlikely indeed. The de-escalation of loony rhetoric, and the new faces at State and Defence in the US tend to support this position also.

Then again, I said the same thing about Iraq.

Biden insisted that he and Obama were deeply committed to the security of Israel.

"It is in our naked self-interest, beyond the moral impertive," Biden said.

A joint resolution set to be introduced by Sens. Lindsey Graham (SC) and Robert Menendez (NJ), a Republican and Democrat, respectively, declares U.S. support for an Israeli military strike against Iran's nuclear program.

Oh it's coming - they are already revving up the planes. No matter how they illegally dress it up, it will basically be a declaration of war (the US doesn't actually do this any more of course, they just attack).

I wish they'd get on with it.
The news has been really dull lately.

Originally Posted by the dogcatcher

I wish they'd get on with it.
The news has been really dull lately.

Might now have to wait that long

From 2012
"“By next spring, next summer at most,” Iran will have finished the “medium enrichment” stage, Netanyahu said in his U.N. speech, pointing to the red line he had drawn on his diagram. “From there, it’s less than a few months, possibly a few weeks, until they get enough uranium for an enriched bomb. The relevant question is not when will Iran get the bomb; the question is at what stage can we stop Iran?”



Mind you, Murderer and war criminal Netanyahu has been saying this line for 20 years.

Love his graphic.
Sort of "Roadrunner, Wild E Coyota"
Acme nukes.

Getting bored,could do with a new war. Iran has too much oil,know the old score,blow the country back to the stone age,then make them pay for it,with oil dollars.
Israel will benefit,the more unstable the Arab countries the more secure Israel feels,knowing that while Sunni and Shitte kill each other,Jew is left to profit.

Iran has too much oil

Then surely we'll find a way to get it. There has to be a resistance there. Let's tap it first by arming them and then tap the petrol second. Then build some MacDonalds, get them hooked on burgers and Pepsi, bla bla bla.

Oh this is not about Oil - not yet anyway. It is about using the nukes that have been stored for so long. Why do you think that the USA have built one, and now a second complete underground nuclear proof shelter in Israel at the cost of 100m buckerooos?

US to build second secret facility in Israel
The $100 million project calls for the construction of a 6,000 sq. meter (65,000 sq. foot) compound below an already existing building.

Dan Lavie and David Baron

A steel cavern, part of an abandoned Israeli army bunker, near Jericho. [Illustrative] | Photo credit: Reuters

Following recent reports that the U.S. was building an underground "Site 911" facility in Israel, the U.S. Army Engineer Corps appears to be working on constructing another secret underground military facility in Israel, dubbed "Site 81, Phase 2."

A tender for the project was issued on an official U.S. government website. The project is estimated at $100 million, and includes the construction of a 6,000 sq. meter (about 65,000 sq. feet) compound below an already existing building.

According to the tender, the above-ground building is in use and will continue to be operational during construction. The work required for the project includes, among other things, installing generators, cranes, elevators and fire-extinguishing equipment.

One of the stated conditions for the project is that it must be carried out by a U.S. company or an international group that includes an American subsidiary. At the time of the issuance of the tender, it was set to close on March 4.

In November, the Washington Post reported the construction of a five-story underground bunker at an air force base near Tel Aviv. The project, called "Site 911," was built to be used by the Israel Air Force and as of February has cost an estimated $62 million, according to the results of the tender.

According to the November report, "Site 911" appears to be one of the largest projects the U.S. Army Engineer Corps has ever undertaken. Each of the first three underground floors is to be roughly 41,000 square feet (approximately 3,800 square meters), according to the corps' notice. The lower two floors are to be much smaller and hold equipment, the Post reported.

The site is meant to withstand a nuclear attack, and is built with blast resistant doors, protection from non-ionized radiation, and is very heavily guarded.

Over the years, the corps has built underground hangars for Israeli fighter jets, facilities for handling nuclear weapons (which Israel has never admitted to possessing), command centers, training bases, intelligence facilities and simulators, according to corps' publications.

The war train is slowly moving forward.

Message to Congress -- Iran | The White House

June 03, 2013 - In Executive Order 12957, the President found that the actions and policies of the Government of Iran threaten the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the United States. To deal with that threat, the President declared a national emergency and imposed prohibitions on certain transactions with respect to the development of Iranian petroleum resources.

What I would like to know it, why do people believe that Iran are a "threat" to the USA, or indeed, anyone? The war mongering press say they are and the war mongering politicians say they are, but the reality is a little different, no?

Originally Posted by pseudolus

What I would like to know it, why do people believe that Iran are a "threat" to the USA, or indeed, anyone? The war mongering press say they are and the war mongering politicians say they are, but the reality is a little different, no?

Iran's not a threat? What rock have you been living under?

Iran's nuclear ambitions, its stated goal of destroying Israel and the assessment by the US State Department that Iran is an “active state sponsor of terrorism” aren't "threats" in your odd little world?

The US is not at war with Iran. The current US strategy is to contain the Iranian threat with diplomacy and sanctions.

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

its stated goal of destroying Israel

source.

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

US State Department that Iran is an “active state sponsor of terrorism”

independent source please not a press statement. In return I will give you proof that the USA state sponsor terrorism, and hope you believe also that regime change is need in the US by force and that China and Russia should sponsor Mexican terrorists to provoke regime change in the USA, and then attack the US?

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

The US is not at war with Iran.

Never said it was only that war with iran is coming.

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

The current US strategy is to contain the Iranian threat with diplomacy and sanctions.

prove please that the US is not funding terrorist organisations in an attempt to mount another coup, as they have done in the past in Iran.

You're so full of something trollybkk, but it certainly is not smarts.

^^^The pic showing comparison to any western power would look similar.

The pic is missing at least one line item. Iran is funding, arming and providing political support to "enemies of the west". An item which is used by the west to justify and impose sanctions upon Iran. Agree, the media is certainly a major factor in citizens buying into Iran being the greatest evil. "Iran must be prevented at all costs from attaining a nuclear weapon capability." All costs interpreted as military action against Iran.

The irony is, the threats only fuel Iran's effort to attain a nuclear weapon capability. No reason Iran should be any different than any country in obtaining a deterrent to a military attack.

The folly of the west's current Iran policy is evident. When Iran gets a nuclear weapons capability as they are sure to do so in spite of threats and even military strikes to impede progress, they will just become another country with nuclear weapons. A sovereign country who has the to defend itself.

So what? If they use or allow others to use a nuc, the response from those countries currently having nuclear weapons would be sure and immediate. Near total destruction of Iran. Bye, bye the current political regime. The notion the current regime would use a nuc which in turn would end their power is laughable.

Mutually assured destruction works well. No reason it won't work to keep Iran from using theirs.

Why shouldn't Iran have nucs? Why is Iran singled out for exclusion from the nuc club when so many other countries have or are protected by the nuclear haves?

Never mind. Answer is evident. They are an enemy of the west and a threat to it's way of life. It's common knowledge. Just ask anybody.

Originally Posted by Norton

The pic is missing at least one line item. Iran is funding, arming and providing political support to "enemies of the west".

The US is funding, arming and providing political support to despotic regimes all around the world. I hope you are prepared to back the same actions against the US lol

Iran can not be allowed Nukes because then Israel would have to behave.

US is. So is UK, France, Russia, China, you name it. Fact remains, Iran is sponsoring terrorism. So what. Think you missed the gist of my post.

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Originally Posted by pseudolus

What I would like to know it, why do people believe that Iran are a "threat" to the USA, or indeed, anyone? The war mongering press say they are and the war mongering politicians say they are, but the reality is a little different, no?

Iran's not a threat? What rock have you been living under?

Iran's nuclear ambitions, its stated goal of destroying Israel and the assessment by the US State Department that Iran is an “active state sponsor of terrorism” aren't "threats" in your odd little world?

The US is not at war with Iran. The current US strategy is to contain the Iranian threat with diplomacy and sanctions.

You shouldn't trust your government's statements concerning Iran any more than concerning Monsanto. Ahmedinejad never stated that Iran's goal is to destroy Israel, that 'wiping of the map' quote is a deliberate mistranslation and lie. Ahmedinejad actually quoted Khomeini, and the correct translation is "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time." Israel: “Wiped off The Map”. The Rumor of the Century, Fabricated by the US Media to Justify An All out War on Iran | Global Research

Please put it to rest, it's a proven falsehood.

The US is at war with Iran. It's arming and financing terrorist groups within Iran, mostly Kurds.

You said that Iran is an 'active state sponsor of terrorism.' Alright. Whom do they sponsor? Except the Hezbollah? Currently busy helping Assad defeating US sponsored Al Queada terrorists, making good progress this week. That's an old debt, Assad was one of few who aided Iran in the war against Iraq. I don't know if you remember, but the US government back then reported that it was Iran that attacked the Kurds in Northern Iraq with chemical weapons. Iran actually never deployed chemical weapons, only Saddam did. The lies about Iran have quite some history.

Originally Posted by Norton

They are an enemy of the west and a threat to it's way of life.

That's what I hear. Iran are a massive threat to the security of the USA.




Oh, hang on a minute.

(and I did get the gist, Norton, hence the lol)

Originally Posted by Rainfall

You shouldn't trust your government's statements concerning Iran any more than concerning Monsanto. Ahmedinejad never stated that Iran's goal is to destroy Israel, that 'wiping of the map' quote is a deliberate mistranslation and lie. Ahmedinejad actually quoted Khomeini, and the correct translation is "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time." Israel: “Wiped off The Map”. The Rumor of the Century, Fabricated by the US Media to Justify An All out War on Iran | Global Research

With respect, while there is some disagreement about the exact translation of the "Wiped off the map" quote, it still clearly calls for the elimination of Israel.

The quote, in Farsi:
”Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad.”


Some translate the quote as saying: “The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time”.

Others, including Ahmadinejad's own website have translated the quote differently.

All official Iranian translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his website, refer to wiping Israel away.

Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran’s most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say “wipe off” or “wipe away” is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive.

IF Ahmedinejad has been misquoted, why doesn't he simply issue a clarification and state that Iran does not wish to eliminate Israel?



Some other examples of Iran's call for the destruction of Israel:

Ahmadinejad: Destroy Israel, End Crisis " Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel."



In New York, defiant Ahmadinejad says Israel will be 'eliminated'

UPDATE 6-In New York, defiant Ahmadinejad says Israel will be 'eliminated' | Reuters


Iran's president says move Israel

Iran's conservative president has said that Israel should be moved to Europe.
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran's president says move Israel

Ahmadinejad says Israel will "disappear" (Ahmadinejad says Israel will disappear | Reuters)




I find it hard to believe that all of these threats are simply fabrications of Western media.

Ahmedinejad is, in my opinion, a hot headed lunatic who has stated on multiple occasions his wish to see Israel "removed", "eliminated", "disappeared", "moved", etc.

It's hard to see how Israel can not view Iran as an existential threat.

Originally Posted by Rainfall

You said that Iran is an 'active state sponsor of terrorism.' Alright. Whom do they sponsor? Except the Hezbollah?

In addition to Hezbollah Iran publicly supports Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Iran also supports Shiite insurgents in Iraq. Do you recall when US troops were authorized to kill Iranian operatives captured in Iraq? (Troops Authorized to Kill Iranian Operatives in Iraq)

Please don't construe my comments vis-a-vis Iran as "taking sides" or excusing in any way the criminal actions of the US in its ongoing "war on terror". Everyone has blood on their hands in this ongoing conflict.

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

Iran's president says move Israel

Iran's conservative president has said that Israel should be moved to Europe.
BBC NEWS | Middle East | Iran's president says move Israel

Well, this sucks indeed.

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

I find it hard to believe that all of these threats are simply fabrications of Western media.

Originally Posted by pseudolus

Originally Posted by TonyBKK

I find it hard to believe that all of these threats are simply fabrications of Western media.

Aye, but you are a conspiracy nut. You have stated your belief that Israel owns the US, Israel killed JFK, Aliens are real, AIDS is a man-made disease, Global warming is a hoax, etc etc.

Originally Posted by rickschoppers

What would this world be like if the US just kept out of all the others business?

This could make for an interesting thread all on its own... as long as tinfoil beanies and the little propellers were left at home.

I'd say you'd have to start by comparing the 70 years of the pax Americana with the 70 years that preceded it.

So 1946 to present versus 1875 to 1945.

Yeah. I thought not. Reality is a bitch and those who do not learn from history can say anything they like in a debate.