Thread: Same sex marriage

Originally Posted by Maanaam

And what is the situation when a gay partner is hospitalised in a critical condition? Next of kin (blood relative) have the right to visit and make decisions, the partner does not, whereas a married partner does.

I had to research the answer ...

So, assuming there is no written instructions from the Patient*, nor an enduring Power of Attorney**

Implementation Guideline
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Withholding and Withdrawing Life
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Sustaining Measures
Page 7 of 61 Part 2
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Ethical and Special Considerations
2.2
Patients without capacity
Where treatment is able to prolong the patient‘s life but there are doubts about whether it would provide overall benefit, the health care team and those close to or representing the patient should take account of the patient‘s wishes, values and preferences in order to assess whether treatment would be in the patient‘s best interests.

In assessing best interests in the case of an adult without the capacity to make decisions about health matters on their own behalf, account must be taken of the following:

• the patient‘s wishes and the views of those closest to them about what is in the patient‘s best interests (where the patient has agreed to their involvement)

• views of culturally appropriate people close to the patient

• beliefs and values that would be likely to influence the decision if the patient had capacity

• clinical judgements about the efficacy of the proposed medical treatment

• likelihood of the patient experiencing severe intractable pain or suffering

• level of awareness patients have of their existence and surroundings and their ability to interact with others, and demonstrate self-directed action in any capacity

• likelihood and extent of any degree of improvement in the patient‘s condition if treatment is provided whether the invasiveness of the treatment is justified in the circumstances

• likelihood of the patient experiencing increasing levels of disability and/or lack of function and dependence

• views of the patient‘s significant others (such as spouses, children and friends), as to what the patient would see as beneficial views of any duly appointed health care attorney or patient advocate

• that decisions must be made on an individual basis and that no unjustifiable discrimination occurs

• that all patients are entitled to the same quality of care, and that those who lack capacity should not be excluded from potentially beneficial treatment options solely by reason of their lack of capacity

• that decisions must not be based on whether the health care team, or the patient‘s relatives or carers, would wish to have the treatment themselves in that situation

• that decisions about best interests must not be motivated by a desire to bring about the patient‘s death.

• This list is by no means exhaustive and can include written statements made by the patient before capacity was lost. In some cases the patient might like to have their families make statements on their behalf.

Source

* My Uncle, who I helped take care of passed when he was 91. He had a binding 'do not resuscitate' written instructions.

** My Sister has an enduring 'Power of Attorney' so, should I be incapacitated to make decisions, she had the legal authority to make decisions as if 'she was me'.

Hope that answers the question

Originally Posted by Looper

Chas, The Royal Society needs you!!

You could be the next Darwin of the 21st century...

You are wasted on TEAK DOOR

Maybe gays are a different species like aboriginals.

I am so happy that you can see the funny side.

The simple fact is, if your assertion has merit, then mine also merits consideration. In the natural world, many species regulate their breeding patterns based on resource and habitat availability. Those who do not, often perish and are driven to extinction.
This is particularly relevant to climate change, as species no longer have sufficient time to adapt to changes in climate.
I will admit that the notion of gay population control is a tad mischievous, but remains valid nonetheless.
Species have been observed to adapt to changes in different ways. If a high functioning homo sapien refuses to moderate an unsustainable population growth, DNA changes are more likely to occur.
Check for information on lowered sperm counts and male, female fertility rates over recent years.
Why do you think Germany was so keen to open its doors to millions of refugees? Because of an alarming decline in birth rates!!
Using extrapolation, all things ae possible.

You do need to be more open minded, or join the Flat Earth Society.

Edit: High court to deliver its decision at 2.15pm tomorrow

High court hears arguments over same-sex marriage postal survey – live

Court sitting in Melbourne will hear the government’s defence of its proposed postal survey that could lead to legislation on marriage equality

Stopping the funding doesn’t stop the survey

Donaghue begins his argument by saying that the grounds that the involvement of the Australian Bureau of Statistics is invalid is “extremely weak”.

He suggests that’s why the claim put by Australian Marriage Authority and senator Janet Rice didn’t even go to that argument.

Donaghue:

If that part of the Wilkie proceedings fails then the premise is there is a valid direction to the statistician requiring the statistician to collect the information set out in that direction.

That’s relevant, he said, because it means that even if the plaintiffs succeed in claiming that the finance minister failed to address the “urgent” and “unforeseen” criteria in the Act, there’s nothing to say the ABS wouldn’t carry on and do the survey anyway. They would just have to do it using the $341m allocated to them in the budget, rather than the additional $122m appropriated by the finance minister.

_________

Edit: Toady’s hearing has ended,......

Government case wrapped up

Donaghue has wrapped up his submissions by suggesting the court confine its response, given the urgency of the case, to answering question 5 in the special case document.

That’s a fairly tricky request, because question 5 contains within it the answers to the three previous questions.

It reads:

5. If the answer to question 2 or question 3. b) or question 4. b) is yes, what, if any, relief sought in the amended statement of claim should the plaintiffs be granted?

The judges have sought to amend that question to cut out reference to earlier questions and just say: what, if any, relief should be granted?

Stripped of legalese, that question asks: should the ABS be able to go on with the survey?

The government needs an answer to that question by Monday, because the ABS will start posting survey forms on Tuesday.

Donaghue argued it is the central question because, as previously stated, finding the funding invalid does not itself stop the survey.

Earlier,.......

Stephen Donaghue has already argued that:

• the plaintiffs do not have standing to appear in the high court;
• the arguments against the validity of the Australian Bureau of Statistics’ involvement should be struck out;
• the argument section 10 of the Appropriations Act is in itself invalid does not fit with either the legislative or practical history of the Act;
• the $122m expense of funding the voluntary postal survey was “urgent” in the sense that it was an urgent need for funding to deliver a government policy;
• providing funds to the ABS to run the survey was “unforeseen” because prior to 7 August there was no plan to involve the ABS;
• both “urgent” and “unforeseen” are criteria that are open to ministerial discretion, despite counsel for Australian Marriage Equality, Kate Richardson, arguing that “unforeseen” was a “jurisdictional fact”;
• there is a high degree of specificity involved in a policy subject to an appropriation so it cannot be argued that the finance minister foresaw the expense when the idea of a postal survey was first publicly discussed by ministers in March.

Where things stand,……

Will we get a decision today?

Given the urgency of this matter, with the ABS hoping to start sending out postal surveys in six days time, the high court is expected to deliver its decision fairly rapidly.

That could be as early as this afternoon, but I understand that those involved in the case think that is unlikely. More likely is a response some time this week, with a meaty written judgement to follow.

Tipping that slightly is the indication that we are likely to run up to the 4.15pm finishing time hearing Donaghue’s final arguments, which are expected to run for another hour, and the replies of the two lead counsels for the plaintiffs.

But the court is likely to want to give a response as soon as it can, to allow the government to respond accordingly.

________

Summary of today’s event: Commonwealth lawyers tell High Court same-sex marriage survey was unforeseen and urgent

In court - Postal survey goes ahead

• The high court has handed down a unanimous view that the legal challenge mounted by Andrew Wilkie should be dismissed, with plaintiffs to pay costs.

• The second legal challenge, by Australian Marriage Equality, has also been lost. Plaintiffs to pay costs. - "inappropriate" to answer the question of standing. Also found for the defence. plaintiff to pay costs.

Malclom Turnbull:

We encourage every Australian to vote in this survey, to have their say, and as I have said in this House and in many other places, Lucy and I will be voting yes and I will be encouraging others to vote yes, but, Mr Speaker, above all, I encourage every Australian to have their say – because unlike the leader of the opposition I respect every Australian’s view on this matter.

The polls show strong support for same-sex marriage — a result that would very likely show up in the survey, ultimately delivering the desired laws.

Australia should be added to the list of countries that allow same sex marriage before the end of the year.

Originally Posted by RPETER65

the point is people wanting cause trouble and force their life style on those who want no part of it

those damn Negroes again...or maybe the Jews this time...some groups are tireless in their attempts to roust devout Christians from their sacred caves...you'd think sinners in Houston and soon Miami would be cowering in fear of the Lord...Praise Jebus and His punitive weather...